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<rousseau>
hello, i am a beginner in ruby, and I have a question about class instance variables: http://pastie.org/7713783
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<rousseau>
hello, are my messages appearing to anyone? i am new to irc so i want to make sure i'm connected properly.
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<iterion_>
yep, we can see you
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<rousseau>
ok cool, i apologize for spamming everyone. i'm just a complete noob at this so i wasn't sure if i was getting through
<iterion_>
re: your question, by class instance variables, do you mean when using the @@variable syntax?
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<rousseau>
my understanding is that variables beginning with @@ are "class variables", whereas variables defined in the scope of the class (outside any instance method) beginning with @ are "class instance variables". my question is regarding class instance variables
<iterion_>
i see
<iterion_>
so, for a comparison to java
<iterion_>
an instance variable is basically like a private var for a class
<drbrain>
an instance variable is a private variable for an instance of a class
<drbrain>
by "private" I mean "not accessible outside the instance"
<rousseau>
right, and for a class instance variable, it's basically like you're defining that private var in the metaclass?
<drbrain>
a class is an instance too
<drbrain>
so it's not special
<drbrain>
you may have heard "fractions are real numbers too"
<drbrain>
similarly, in ruby, "classes are real objects too"
<drbrain>
… instance variables on classes look a little funny because you can put them inside a class body or inside a class method body
<drbrain>
… class C; @ivar = 42; def self.whatever() @ivar end; end
<drbrain>
so @ivar above bother reference the same object
<rousseau>
ok cool. i guess the key differentiating point for me is that class instance variables are not inherited by subclasses
<drbrain>
bother -> both
<drbrain>
correct, since the subclass is a separate object
<rousseau>
but regular instance variables are inherited, right?
<drbrain>
yes and no
<drbrain>
for class A and class B < A, B and A are separate objects
<drbrain>
for a = A.new and b = B.new, these are separate objects
<drbrain>
but for b, the methods of A and the methods of B are shared
<drbrain>
so methods from both classes (for a B instance) can refer to the same object
<drbrain>
which methods your objects has is separate from which instance variables your object has
<rousseau>
but in the class definition for B, can't B alter the instance variables it inherited from A?
<drbrain>
correct
<drbrain>
as as for a = A.new and b = B.new and b2 = B.new
<drbrain>
neither a nor b nor b2 can alter each others' instance variables
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<drbrain>
(note that I'm ignoring the instance_variable* methods)
<rousseau>
oh of course, because they're separate instances
<rousseau>
is that right?
<rousseau>
since they're separate instances they can't alter each other's data
<rousseau>
unless one altered the static data for the class
<rousseau>
in which case it would apply to all objects of the class
<drbrain>
that's right
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<rousseau>
ok cool. i guess the key point for me is that whereas the class definition of B can alter the instance variables it inherited from A, it cannot alter the class instance variables that were defined in A. To my understanding, the class instance variables defined in A are not visible to the child class B. is that right? that's why i wanted to draw the parallel to private variables in Java, because private variables aren
<rousseau>
visible to subclasses in Java.
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<drbrain>
that sounds correct
<drbrain>
however, if a class method uses or defines an instance variable, a subclass' class method will use an instance variable with the same name
<drbrain>
but that subclass' instance variable may refer to a different object
<drbrain>
since class methods are inherited the same as instance variables
<drbrain>
s/variables/methods
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<rousseau>
so is basically what you're pointing out the fact that class methods are inherited whereas class instance methods are not inherited? i need to test this out, because if the subclass inherits the method but not the property, then how can the method function properly unless the property (i.e., the class instance variable) was somehow redefined?
<drbrain>
all methods on a class are inherited when you subclass
<drbrain>
more pointing out that, as in instances, use of @ivar will be shared across methods regardless of their origin
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<rousseau>
ok, i am going to go test out some more to get a better understanding. thank you for your help
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<injekt>
I hate google apps integration
<yorickpeterse>
I hate it when my cat goes missing
<injekt>
we have similar issues I see
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<injekt>
lots of herp derp on twitter this morning
<whitequark>
more specifically?
<injekt>
whitequark: your conversation with judofyr and charlie is entertaining :D
<injekt>
I was gonna chime in, then decided against it because twitter
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<whitequark>
injekt: please do tell your thoughts on irc, however
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<injekt>
whitequark: still reading through right now, I only read the 'is html code' discussion so far
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* whitequark
has grown to really dislike the self.foo vs lvar foo ambiguity
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<chekcmate>
hi guys
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<chekcmate>
I wanted to parse this format "Tue Apr 23 11:10:03 +0200 2013" to that "2013-04-23T11:10:03+02:00" format, by using "Date.parse(olddate).strftime("%a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Z %Y")"
<chekcmate>
but this does not work, can you give me a hint?
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<chekcmate>
AH! it must be a string and not a time object, right?
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<chekcmate>
DateTime.strptime(jobinfo.d_start.to_s, "%a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Z %Y") works :)
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: you folks use Travis Pro right?
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: yes
<chekcmate>
ohi yorickpeterse !
<chekcmate>
long time no see
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: and it keeps private GH repositories strictly private on Travis right?
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<yorickpeterse>
chekcmate: hola
<chekcmate>
how are you doing?
<yorickpeterse>
good good, though my cat went for a walk yesterday and hasn't come back yet (Yeah, first world developer problems)
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: right
<chekcmate>
ah, good to hear :) -- is it horny??
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: cats are important.
<yorickpeterse>
chekcmate: it has no balls so I'd say the hormone level is limited
<chekcmate>
aw
<yorickpeterse>
it's a eunich
<chekcmate>
hah
<chekcmate>
well, horses sometimes think they still got them...
<yorickpeterse>
* Eunuch apparently
<chekcmate>
phantom-balls
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<yorickpeterse>
either way, this prompted hacker me to start thinking about GPS collars and what not
<yorickpeterse>
then I saw the prices of those fuckers, jesus
<whitequark>
mmm, about $30 for a GPS module
<whitequark>
about 3x3cm
<whitequark>
plus about $10 for a battery and the same amount for various hackery
<chekcmate>
ohh
<chekcmate>
thats a good idea!
<chekcmate>
you could make a drone follow your pet too
<chekcmate>
like... if it needs air-support heh
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: the DIY stuff I've seen so far isn't small enough
<yorickpeterse>
chekcmate: ha
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<ddfreyne>
zenspider: What’s the release schedule for the new minitest?
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<whitequark>
ddfreyne: it depends on what do you want to do
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<ddfreyne>
whitequark: Refresh my gist… there’s some cases that make it hard
<whitequark>
eg if you move the path to a constant and then supply it to the match()
<whitequark>
oh yes
<whitequark>
like thta
<whitequark>
you will need a Ruby partial evaluator for this.
<whitequark>
just as yorickpeterse does
<whitequark>
and everyone else
<ddfreyne>
This is why I would like an external DSL :(
<yorickpeterse>
what did I miss?
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<whitequark>
I think that one of the coolest things about Foundry is that it includes precisely such a partial evaluator
<whitequark>
to which you can hook
<ddfreyne>
Actually, now that the rules in nanoc 4.0 are pluggable… I could have both an external *and* an internal DSL. hmmm
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: parser 1.2
<yorickpeterse>
No I didn't, I saw the tweet
<yorickpeterse>
and shared it with my co-workers
<yorickpeterse>
followed by a ":D"
<yorickpeterse>
shit, gotta retweet that though
* yorickpeterse
feels like one of those social media nerds
<whitequark>
"twitter coach"
<yorickpeterse>
YEAH YOU GOTTA INCREASE YOUR SEO ROI UPVOTES BY RETWEETING THE SOCIAL TWITTERVERSE
<ddfreyne>
You didn’t retweet? YOU ARE AN ASOCIAL MEDIUM
<whitequark>
omg what did i start
<yorickpeterse>
also, how does minitest compare to Bacon?
<yorickpeterse>
Minitest 5 in particular I suppose
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: What do you mean by a partial evaluator, exactly?
<yorickpeterse>
I always feel that extending Bacon is a bit hacky
<whitequark>
ddfreyne: basically you need to compute some things with ruby's semantics
<whitequark>
eg Array#each is one of them
<yorickpeterse>
ddfreyne: basically you process a block of code as if you were to execute it, but in a limited way
<whitequark>
but you cannot compute the entire expression, because that'd mean you need a ruby implementation and also you don't know the required context
<whitequark>
so you compute it _partially_
<yorickpeterse>
To give you an example: in ruby-lint class definitions are partially evaluted (as in, only the defining bit)
<ddfreyne>
Okay, so you’d unroll fixed loops, evaluate if statements statically, etc?
<yorickpeterse>
so are assignments
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<whitequark>
yep
<yorickpeterse>
as much as you can, yes
<whitequark>
ruby's far too dynamic for sane partial evaluation, unfortunately
<whitequark>
I have a simple partial evaluator described there
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<ddfreyne>
I think I’m sticking with my current approach (evaluate the block in the context of a “spy” object that records whatever is called on it)
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: something I'm throwing out, I'm thinking it would be nice if AST::Node#inspect would return valid Ruby code instead of S expressions (optionally using a different method)
<yorickpeterse>
I've had a few cases where I wanted to copy-paste it and compare it, but with the Sexp that requires modifications
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: same here
<judofyr>
yorickpeterse: I think `unparse` will provide that
<yorickpeterse>
so instead of (str "hello") it would return s(:str, ["hello"])
<judofyr>
oh
<whitequark>
I'm going to make #inspect return s(:foo, :bar) and #to_s (str :bar)
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<yorickpeterse>
noice
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: please file an issue
<judofyr>
that kind of valid Ruby
<yorickpeterse>
On ast or parser?
<whitequark>
judofyr: your suggestion is also nice
<yorickpeterse>
Note that I'm generally pretty loose with it though
<yorickpeterse>
errr, relaxed or w/e the word is that I'm looking for
<whitequark>
tbh, if I read this without personally knowing you or reading ^, I'd simply avoid contributing, or rather, upstreaming changes
<whitequark>
you're not Linus
<whitequark>
to tell me how commit messages should be written, and ruby-lint is not Linux for that matter.
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<nachtw1nd>
i got a noob question, say we have a object called "ro" => #<Collmex::Api::Accdoc:0x007fede71a51d0 @hash={:identifyer=>"ACCDOC", :company_id=>1, :test=>"Rechnung Nr 259 vom 02.01.2013", :position_id=>1 }>
<nachtw1nd>
if i try ro.test i get a #<NoMethodError: private method `test' called for #<Collmex::Api::Accdoc:0x007fede71a51d0>>
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: see, I don't expect people to read this after they've already contributed one way or another
<ddfreyne>
“Do not use Ruby 1.9.x-specific features (yet).”
<yorickpeterse>
In that case I'll friendly ask them to follow where appropriate
<ddfreyne>
Oh, it’s outdated :)
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: well exactly, this is the point
<yorickpeterse>
I suppose the tl;dr is "write tests, document code, wrap your damn code, write proper commit messages"
<whitequark>
there is a difference between "friendly ask" and "if your commit description is not 50 character long then gtfo", which is basically what's written there.
<whitequark>
or how it can well be read.
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<whitequark>
in Linux, it does make sense, because a single commit will be read by a dozen of people with very little time, and it'll be used for ages onwards
<yorickpeterse>
Not really, only when they don't sign them off
<ddfreyne>
yorickpeterse: Yeah, it’s a bit to aggressive
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<whitequark>
ddfreyne: >Use UNIX-style line breaks (LF).
<ddfreyne>
yorickpeterse: Why do you need to sign off your commits? To prove that *you* are the one creating them?
<whitequark>
doesn't make sense
<yorickpeterse>
though I suppose I should change some of the wording
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: as opposed to CRLF
<whitequark>
ddfreyne: on Linux you won't get CR, and on Windows you can't avoid
<yorickpeterse>
ddfreyne: to say "I've read and agree with the rules" basically
<yorickpeterse>
It originated from some Linux lawsuit
<ddfreyne>
whitequark: I’ve had issues with projects where CRLF and LF got intermingled
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<whitequark>
ddfreyne: instead, link people to git config autocrlf :)
<yorickpeterse>
it's also a nice way to say "I've actually verified this shit" when dealing with multiple maintainers (though this doesn't work with GH's pull request system)
<yorickpeterse>
since the latter requires an interactive rebase or cherry picking
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: again, a Linux-ism
<ddfreyne>
Yeah, I had git pull requests in mind
<whitequark>
which makes sense with their workflow and requirements and doesn't with yours
<yorickpeterse>
I don't really use it to sign off other people's stuff though
<whitequark>
you seriouslu overdid that stuff
<whitequark>
*y
<whitequark>
to the point of becoming bureaucracy ;)
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<whitequark>
ddfreyne: how do you write that cool man page style thing
<whitequark>
Ronn.
<yorickpeterse>
Don't really see the issue though. It takes a few seconds to read through the commit guide and add `-s` to your commit message
<ddfreyne>
Ronn indeed
<yorickpeterse>
Though I do agree it can be written in a more friendlier way
<ddfreyne>
Though… I need to update those.
<yorickpeterse>
plus a rationale behind the signing off would be a good idea to
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: don't make me think
<whitequark>
and even more importantly, don't make me think about bullshit, which Signed-off-by is in your case
<yorickpeterse>
I'd rather make people think than having to deal with license bullshit (which I take quite seriously)
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<whitequark>
as I've said... licensing is a defense mechanism. do you have a threat model? did you evaluate risks?
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<yorickpeterse>
I don't care when it's some hacking project, but with these projects that will stick around for a few years and potentially impact people's lifes I do
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<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: do you know how intellectual property laws, both from your country and international, affect you and your projects?
<whitequark>
do you know what *exactly* do you achieve with Signed-off-by?
<yorickpeterse>
The gist of it, yes, and yes
<yorickpeterse>
it's nothing more than a signature
<yorickpeterse>
on its own it's meaningless
<yorickpeterse>
It requires some reasoning (e.g. a DCO) that states what's supposed to've happened when people us it
<yorickpeterse>
Much like EULAs
<yorickpeterse>
Choosing "I accept" doesn't mean anything until somebody says "But he accepted, he was lying!"
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<yorickpeterse>
I also don't believe in agreeing in an implicit manner as it leaves too much up for debate
<yorickpeterse>
and the latter has already bitten me before and cost me money
<yorickpeterse>
twice actually
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<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: hm
<yorickpeterse>
Also, the amount of effort required for signed-off-by is no more than reading (or skimming through) a license and understanding it
<yorickpeterse>
hell, I even have an alias for it
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<yorickpeterse>
I do have to say it gives me mixed feelings when I see so many other projects not using it
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<yorickpeterse>
I should probably explain this in said guide
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<antbody>
yorickpeterse: Would love the commit messages in the last project I was in.
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<yorickpeterse>
How so?
<antbody>
No one ever squashed, reviews were like 40 commits, which of 35 were just "forgot this file".
<antbody>
Some messages were like "something".
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<workmad3>
I saw a commit on a project about 2 days ago that was '<ticket number> Making changes to the thingy'
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<whitequark>
I have both seen and written a lot of messages like that
<whitequark>
in my experience, they dominate the logs while the project is in really, really bad state
<whitequark>
when you unscrew it, logs return back to normal...
<whitequark>
(depends on your team ofc)
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<antbody>
whitequark: Well I write similar commit messages as well. But when I push commits to the remote for others to see then I will clean them up.
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<antbody>
Probably the only reason the commits were like that was because the lead coded Ruby in Eclipse and only used Git through a GUI.
<yorickpeterse>
uuugh, squashing commits
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<yorickpeterse>
at my previous employer I had this completely fucked up setup where a project manager would merge shit into master (I wasn't allowed to, I was also the only dev on the project) and then squash them all together
<yorickpeterse>
So master was bascially a completely different thing
<yorickpeterse>
I also couldn't push to develop directly
<antbody>
yorickpeterse: Gotta love the "shitty developers" setup.
<yorickpeterse>
More like "Fuck you, walled garden instead"
<yorickpeterse>
err, "YOU WANT COMRIT ACCERS? HERE WRALL INSTEAD, FUCK YOU"
<antbody>
Yeah and I don't mean like to squash everything to a single commit. You might have stuff which deserves it's own commit messages.
<whitequark>
yorickpeterse: haha that's another thing
<whitequark>
the maintainer of $projectname did that to me once
<yorickpeterse>
also the "ZOMGJSADHJASJDHSK JCODE REVIEW? GET THE FUCK OUT" attitude
<yorickpeterse>
in their defense, they did PHP
<antbody>
PHP mentioned, channel goes silent.
<yorickpeterse>
haha
<antbody>
All the devs remember the horrible flashbacks from those legacy projects.
<antbody>
Like some war veterans we wake up at night "oh dear god no!"
<whitequark>
antbody: but i started with ror
<yorickpeterse>
isn't the the same :D
* yorickpeterse
runs
<antbody>
whitequark: y u
<whitequark>
*evil laughter*
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<yorickpeterse>
*audience laughs*
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<whitequark>
well tbh I started with php. but that only was a few toy projects
<whitequark>
they featured things like XSS, SQLi and also buying a negative amount of things would give you money
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<injekt>
heh
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<Aloysius1>
Hey, guys! Hooking up a message queue (AMQP) and trying to pick a gem. My team is leaning toward Bunny but the amqp gem seems to me to be more functional. Anyone here have any experience?
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<zzak>
yorickpeterse: im seriously considering that hostel now
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<zzak>
have you stayed at the one in Asakusabashi before?
<flori>
m:q
<yorickpeterse>
zzak: yes
<yorickpeterse>
It's a bit tricky to find (though the directions on the website are fairly useful) but the location is pretty good
<yorickpeterse>
The nearby subway station is only one stop from the akiba area
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<athaeryn>
Sorry, I mean actually working on the gem.
<athaeryn>
(I'm actually trying to fix a bug with --watch)
<injekt>
path/to/sass --watch
<injekt>
:/
<injekt>
so if you're in the sass codebase, `bin/sass` will use that gem because sass does stupid things with the load path
<athaeryn>
Woah... you can use the executable like that without installing the gem in a local gemset?
<injekt>
yes
<injekt>
with gems that dont do stupid things, you'd do: `ruby -Ilib bin/sass`
<athaeryn>
What kind of stupid things?
<injekt>
athaeryn: bin/sass requires sass relative to that file, libraries ofter do this to help development
<injekt>
but it's not required because 'sass' will already be installed, so `require 'sass'` would suffice
<athaeryn>
injekt: Oh, got it.
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<athaeryn>
I'm getting an error 'cannot load such file -- bin/../lib/sass'
<athaeryn>
Are there any resource you'd recommend on gem development, unit testing, etc?
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<gjaldon>
athaeryn: if you're interested in unit testing you could probably read 'Growing Object-Oriented Software with Tests'. it covers the whole TDD process
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<gjaldon>
and takes on unit testing in detail. code examples are in Java though
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<athaeryn>
I'm familiar with Java, so that shouldn't be an issue.
<athaeryn>
Thanks!
<gjaldon>
glad to be of help
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