#ruby-lang on 2013-12-18 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2013-11-22 18:08 apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p353: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p484) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || RubyConf 2013 at http://www.justin.tv/confreaks

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01:40 <Elico> Hey there. Anyone is into "Balancing process over MultiCPU" ?

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02:01 <r0bgleeson> Elico: what do you mean?

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02:31 <Elico> r0bgleeson: like doing things utilizing MultiCPU system..

02:32 <r0bgleeson> Elico: yeah i have an interest. any particular question?

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02:32 <Elico> in ruby it seems like "one process" only from some points of view..

02:33 <Elico> I am still not sure if ruby can work with multicpu or not ?? and if yes what are the basic path towards it?

02:34 <r0bgleeson> i'm not sure what you mean, on MRI(the defacto implementation) threads are implemented to be concurrent, so you do not utilize all CPU cores. you can use fork() to run tasks in parallel.

02:34 <r0bgleeson> there is other ruby implementations(rubinius, jruby) who implement parallel threads.

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02:40 <Elico> I am not talking only on threads and forks but as a whole software that I want to utilize a 8 cores(real) system..

02:40 <|jemc|> well then do it

02:40 <Elico> how to do it??

02:41 <Elico> I am not sure what options are in ruby..

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02:41 <Elico> I have heard something about threads forks and "green threads" which was something else but I do not remember that name for them.

02:42 <r0bgleeson> Elico: why are you using ruby to do that?

02:42 <r0bgleeson> green threads are from 1.8

02:42 <r0bgleeson> they're long dead

02:42 <Elico> no no there was something else...

02:42 <r0bgleeson> but on 1.9 threads are concurrent

02:43 <r0bgleeson> well, i've explained to you the two options. threads or fork(). i dont know of any other.

02:43 <cout> r0bgleeson: but now we have fiber :)

02:43 <Elico> something like ... yes fibers..

02:43 <r0bgleeson> fibers wont utilize 8 cores

02:43 <Elico> I know...

02:43 <r0bgleeson> theyre concurrent

02:44 <r0bgleeson> fibers are separate from threads in ruby

02:44 <Elico> So 1.9 threads do what?

02:44 <Elico> compared to fibers?

02:44 <cout> fibers are like threads that you can choose when to schedule

02:44 <r0bgleeson> a thread in ruby is a native OS thread, but ruby only ever schedules one at a time(for the sake of argument)

02:45 <Elico> (ok)

02:45 <r0bgleeson> okay, i said for the sake of argument because when two threads are IO bound, ruby may let them run in parallel

02:45 <Elico> so you need to schedule everything by yourself when using fibers if I understand right...

02:45 <r0bgleeson> i am trying to help you

02:45 <r0bgleeson> fibers are scheduled by you, yes

02:45 <Elico> yes thanks r0bgleeson it helps..

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02:46 <Elico> so threads can run in parallel and by that we mean that two operations can run "at different times at the same time"

02:47 * cout winces

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02:47 <r0bgleeson> they're run at the same time. in the concurrent model, one task is stopped then the other resumed and so on, until finish

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02:48 <Elico> and on cpu level?

02:48 <Elico> (the basic idea)

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02:49 <Elico> the CPU scheduled them on two different times?

02:50 <r0bgleeson> it can happen on a single thread, but in the case of concurrent threads one is in a running state while another may be asleep

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02:50 <Elico> OK

02:51 <Elico> so on a single thread can be on a "sleep" mode while not "blocking" other parts of the software to run??

02:51 <Elico> (I am not sure I have wrote it right)

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02:54 <r0bgleeson> on a single thread you can suspend one codepath to resume another, check out fibers for that http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.0.0/Fiber.html, check out Kernel#fork on MRI for parallelism, check out rubinius or jruby for parallel threads

02:55 <Elico> I remember trying to understand it in the past..

02:56 <Elico> OK but in the basic mode of 8 processes that Blocks the system will have a trouble if I am right..

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02:57 <r0bgleeson> i dont know, do some research and see what you find

02:57 <r0bgleeson> you can discuss theory all day long

02:57 <Elico> This is theory before practice..

02:57 <Elico> I have seen something but I ask to understand the basic concepts..

02:58 <Elico> if nobody knows the basic assumptions of 8 forks on 8 cores what would I do? start screaming for help?

02:58 <r0bgleeson> thats what id do

02:59 <Elico> Well I have tried my best in ruby chat for help :D

02:59 <r0bgleeson> me too

02:59 <ohsix> does ruby really not do any concurrency in the threads unless there's a blocking operation?

02:59 <ohsix> or is that use of 'block' some term of art

02:59 <Elico> If there is no need then there is no need for it..

03:00 <|jemc|> look up the global interpreter lock

03:00 <|jemc|> or GIL

03:00 <Elico> the use of "block" is kind of weird to me since I do not have full background but since every server do I\O stuff I assume that it can block when waiting for network traffic..

03:01 <Elico> unless being used with poll and other event driver design.

03:02 <Elico> this looks nice: http://www.rubyinside.com/does-the-gil-make-your-ruby-code-thread-safe-6051.html

03:02 <ohsix> yea i understand it, just doesn't make sense; i saw him mention the different interpreters behaving differently with respect to that

03:03 <r0bgleeson> because they're implemented differently

03:03 <ohsix> i mean if you're single threaded and the only thing you can do is to avoid blocking calls for stuff with them, that makes sense, like faking AIO with separate threads when there's no real AIO

03:03 <r0bgleeson> GIL isn't part of ruby the language

03:05 <Elico> I will read later. Thanks!

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03:08 <ohsix> i thought i'd learn ruby by osmosis by reading the channel, but that's the first thing i've actually noticed and it's weird :]

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04:00 <scientes> how do i open a abstract unix domain socket

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04:01 <scientes> i.e. starts with "@"

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09:35 <yorickpeterse> http://hastebin.com/luyiseqeka.rb AND THIS IS WHY ACTIVESUPPORT IS A BAD IDEA

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09:35 <yorickpeterse> herp derp lets hijack Object#to_json and use our own custom crap

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09:45 <sluukkonen> I'd say that the whole idea of having Object#to_json is wrong

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09:47 <yorickpeterse> That's also true

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10:22 <darix> yorickpeterse: isnt activesupport using multi_json so you can pick the backend you want?

10:23 <yorickpeterse> I have no clue honestly

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10:23 <yorickpeterse> I looked at the code and it's going through a bunch of abstract encoding mumbo jumbo

10:23 <darix> ActiveSupport::JSON.backend= ....

10:24 <yorickpeterse> I just want fucking JSON without ActiveSupport, it shouldn't even be loaded in the first place

10:24 <yorickpeterse> but ta, that might help

10:24 <darix> there is also a method to query which it is currently using

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10:25 <darix> yorickpeterse: https://github.com/intridea/multi_json/blob/master/lib/multi_json.rb#L46

10:27 <yorickpeterse> the whole road to that seems to add overhead, I just fixed it (where possible) by using JSON.encode vs to_json

10:27 <yorickpeterse> or just JSON() in my case

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11:02 <yorickpeterse> IN TODAY'S NEWS: STUFF IS SLOW BECAUSE I CREATED A BOTTLENECK

11:02 <yorickpeterse> herp derp

11:02 <yorickpeterse> next up: a cat sits in a box and is content

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11:32 <yorickpeterse> YES, proved my theory

11:32 <yorickpeterse> 1 thread takes 182 seconds, 10 take 73

11:32 <yorickpeterse> so it indeed is faster

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14:14 <yorickpeterse> I think I killed the chat

14:14 <yorickpeterse> as usual

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14:17 <r0bgleeson> it was long dead before you talked

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14:19 <rolfb> it's still working for me o_O

14:20 * yorickpeterse facedesk

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14:22 <rolfb> :D

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15:02 <whitening> need some help with translating Java to Ruby

15:02 <whitening> someone :) ?

15:02 <yorickpeterse> post the code?

15:02 <whitening> sec.

15:03 <yorickpeterse> don't ask to ask, just ask

15:03 <whitening> just was wondering if there is anyone willing to help with that kind of stuff

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15:06 <whitening> yorickpeterse: http://pastie.org/8560902

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15:07 <whitening> output should be: 202681234567814

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15:09 <yorickpeterse> what have you tried?

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15:10 <whitening> i'm ashamed to show it.

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15:11 <whitening> yorickpeterse: sec. i'll show it but it's far from achieving it.

15:11 <yorickpeterse> It's mostly to show that you've indeed tried something, opposed to basically letting others doing your job

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15:13 <whitening> http://pastie.org/private/4bo1yzny7psrzitqnidnsg

15:13 <whitening> yorickpeterse: i've been trying it for two days and have my hands sweating :)

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15:19 <whitening> yorickpeterse: i'm failing to do the byte shifts and gathering.. tried lots of things but i'm just lost

15:20 <yorickpeterse> you mean the stuff in TBCD#decode?

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15:21 <yorickpeterse> you can do it similar in Ruby

15:21 <yorickpeterse> >> 10 & 0x0F

15:21 <eval-in> yorickpeterse => 10 (https://eval.in/80618)

15:21 <yorickpeterse> >> 10 & 0x0F >> 4

15:21 <eval-in> yorickpeterse => 0 (https://eval.in/80619)

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15:32 <whitening> yorickpeterse: any other pointer ?

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15:33 <yorickpeterse> I'm not really sure what problems you're facing so I can't say much, it doesn't look that hard to port over

15:33 <yorickpeterse> I would just start with a 1:1 port

15:33 <yorickpeterse> Then refactor once it actually works

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15:36 <whitening> well for example res += convert(data[i] & 0x0F) + convert((data[i] & 0xF0) >> 4); passes through the following numbers: 02621832547618f4

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15:37 <whitening> >> 0 & 0x0F >> 4

15:37 <eval-in> whitening => 0 (https://eval.in/80632)

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15:38 <whitening> >> (0 & 0xF) + (0 & 0xF >> 4)

15:38 <eval-in> whitening => 0 (https://eval.in/80634)

15:38 <yorickpeterse> eh yeah, that's because you're operating on 0

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15:38 <yorickpeterse> >> 15 & 0xF

15:38 <eval-in> yorickpeterse => 15 (https://eval.in/80637)

15:38 <yorickpeterse> >> 15 & 0xF >> 4

15:38 <eval-in> yorickpeterse => 0 (https://eval.in/80638)

15:38 <yorickpeterse> hmm

15:38 <whitening> something is wrong with the ruby byte shifting as long as i've been strugling those days

15:39 <yorickpeterse> Oh no, that's correct

15:39 <yorickpeterse> derp

15:39 <matp> probably >> has higher precedence?

15:39 <whitening> okay, it's me i'm sure but i dont get it

15:39 <whitening> so if we get 02621832547618f4 for decoding

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15:40 <whitening> using the algorithm from the java code which is working as expected, first three 026 should be converted to: 202

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15:44 <whitening> matp: even isolated in () result is same

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15:45 <matp> yes, I'm a moron, forget what I said

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15:45 <whitening> I'm for not being able to realize how to do it

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15:47 <matp> I can see your ruby code has an off by one error, unless I'm still being stupid

15:48 <whitening> tell me about it

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15:49 <matp> you should iterate up to length - 1 in your decode method

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15:58 <yorickpeterse> http://hastebin.com/tinodigeno.rb

15:58 <yorickpeterse> wat

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16:01 <matp> an awkward way to delete age as long as it is false?

16:01 <yorickpeterse> the pattern is repeated for a bunch of other fields as well

16:01 <yorickpeterse> this code is bonkers

16:01 <oddmunds> delete returns the thing it deleted?

16:02 <yorickpeterse> it's one big file with hardly any whitespace

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16:02 <yorickpeterse> oddmunds: yes?

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22:23 <eam> this is going to sound like a stupid question, but hear me out: Is there a way to prevent an object from ever being collected by the GC?

22:24 <eam> -including- upon process shutdown

22:25 <MrZYX> what do you expect to happen on process shutdown instead? magically reappearing when you start the next process? what's your usecase?

22:25 <eam> I know I can do something like maintain a ref and call Kernel.exit! but I'm looking for a way to make this happen when I don't control the shutdown

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22:25 <eam> MrZYX: I just want the process to end without invoking the GC on an object (and its associated callbacks)

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22:26 <eam> use case is working around problems in a C extension

22:26 <MrZYX> I guess I'd try to hack a flag into that objects class that prevents those callbacks from being run

22:26 <eam> I have one of these objects only. Don't need it collected, it lives for the life of the process. But there's a bad side-effect registered in the GC cleanup hook

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22:27 <eam> MrZYX: is that possible from ruby?

22:27 <whitequark> eam: A = object ?

22:27 <MrZYX> maybe depends on the structure of it

22:27 <eam> whitequark: turns out those are sometimes GC'd on shutdown

22:28 <eam> actually hang on, maybe I tried $a

22:28 <whitequark> eam: http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.0.0/ObjectSpace.html#method-c-undefine_finalizer

22:29 <eam> will that also remove callbacks set in C via Data_Make_Struct() ?

22:29 <whitequark> try it

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22:31 <eam> doesn't seem to

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22:31 <whitequark> your best chances is fixing the extension then

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22:31 <whitequark> or maybe ask @charliesome

22:32 <eam> ok. Did that, but I'm trying to see if I can write code compatible with the bug

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22:33 <eam> charliesome: hi, I have a somewhat academic question: Is it possible to indicate that an object should never be GC'd?

22:34 <charliesome> eam: from ruby or from c?

22:34 <eam> from ruby, use case is working around bad behavior in a C extension

22:34 <charliesome> you can put a reference to it in a global variable

22:34 <charliesome> $foo = my_object

22:34 <eam> I tried that, it appears to GC at exit

22:34 <charliesome> ah yeah it would

22:35 <eam> I actually need it to never run, has to do with it touching global state over a socket and messing up other processes

22:35 <charliesome> instead of exiting you could try sending yourself SIGKILL

22:35 <eam> hm ok

22:35 <charliesome> or you could fix the c ext ;)

22:35 <eam> yeah I found Kernel.exit! seems to avoid gc as would exec, but I was hoping for something where I don't control the exit method

22:35 <eam> but yeah

22:35 <eam> clearly fixing the extension is where it's at

22:35 <eam> thanks!

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22:37 <eam> it might be nice to have that faculty

22:37 <eam> the specific thing I'm dealing with is this, btw https://github.com/brianmario/mysql2/pull/463

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22:38 <eam> I figured if I could hack around it by tying off an object so the gc would never touch it, it'd be a nice dodge

22:39 <eam> there's this whole area of problematic behavior in cleaning up state from external libraries which isn't gc friendly and often a hack to just never collect the object would be a quick win

22:39 <whitequark> eam: at_exit { exit! }

22:39 <eam> hmmmmmm!

22:40 <eam> whitequark: that works :)

22:40 <whitequark> now go and fix the extension.

22:40 <eam> i did! check the PR I linked

22:41 <lupine> rubyqt suffers from some gc problems

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22:41 <lupine> at one point, I got frustrated enough to produce a global array that all Qt objects got pushed into at create time

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23:28 <retro|cz> Is there any C-api for Ruby stdlib JSON?

23:30 <whitequark> retro|cz: what exactly are you trying to do ?

23:30 <retro|cz> whitequark, https://github.com/brianmario/mysql2/issues/464#issuecomment-30880450

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23:31 <whitequark> you could call Ruby methods of JSON module from C-land

23:31 <whitequark> rb_funcall and friends, as usual

23:32 <retro|cz> whitequark, yup I know that. So there is not public C api for ruby stdlib extensions?

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23:33 <whitequark> I don't think there is

23:33 <retro|cz> whitequark, Yup, I think same. Thanks.

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