<pie_> i think i may have seen something about that actually...
<rqou> the tl;dr was essentially that the prefetch opcodes never raise privilege exceptions
<pie_> anyway this is very interesting
<rqou> but they take different amounts of time depending on if you have access to the memory or not
<pie_> rqou, was this a timing attack?
<pie_> ah yep :)
<rqou> e.g. something that requires the cpu to walk all page tables takes much much longer than something that doesn't
* qu1j0t3 is impressed
<pie_> i wonder if there's a list of such goofs somewhere for some nice reading
<rqou> there is the super disorganized CVE database :P
<pie_> i almost asked if they do hardware but i guess this is softwareish
<rqou> which iirc had a CVE of its own a number of years back :P
<pie_> haha
<rqou> iirc somebody found an XSS in it
<pie_> oh i thought they gave the disorganization a cve, nevermind i get it
<felix_> i was more thinking of an fpga frying bitstream, but yeah, poking stuff in the system via busmastering will probably result in more interesting stuff...
<rqou> the ingenuity of XSS attacks is quite impressive sometimes
<cr1901_modern> prefetch opcode?
<rqou> somebody XSSd a large number of dns querying websites by putting HTML in a TXT record
<rqou> yeah that's the one
<cr1901_modern> Bleh, I don't have the bandwidth to ask about the last hour of convo tonight lmao
<pie_> i think i saw a talk with very nice slides by that gruss fellow on cache ?side channel? attacks
<rqou> oh side channel attacks exist everywhere :P
<rqou> azonenberg: i wonder if the fpga boards allow for new side channel/data exfiltration attacks?
<pie_> this looks fun
<rqou> or are they probably in a rack all by themselves?
<pie_> rqou, im curious about EM crosstalk possibilities
<pie_> idk if you could like...make a really long trace inside an fpga or something
<pie_> on that note i feel dumb, fpga dies are still generally pretty small no?
<azonenberg> pie_: nope, lol
<azonenberg> Not small
<pie_> hm ok. i wasnt sure
<azonenberg> Making "long traces" is unlikely as they're all buffered
<pie_> long trace as in antenna, but you probably got that
<azonenberg> But an xc7a200t die is on the same OOM size as a typical x86 chip
<azonenberg> i got to decap a blown stratix V once
<azonenberg> it was HUGE
<azonenberg> i have made entire PCBs smaller than the ide, lol
<azonenberg> die*
<pie_> heh, and thats why theyre expensive, yield baby
<pie_> i think i asked you about this once before actually
<azonenberg> at least 25x30 mm
<pie_> im not familiar with radio stuff yet so i dont know how big of an antenna youd need to do "things"
<pie_> but yeah you said buffered and what
<rqou> it's hilarious how amazon rolls out this service to assist machine learning or whatever and all we can think of doing is finding footguns and exploits :P
<pie_> :D
<pie_> we are strange men in a strange land
<pie_> we have a peculiar taste for fun
<pie_> maybe its the only way we dont go crazy because of how broken everythig is
<pie_> :P :/
<pie_> then again youd know more about that than me
<pie_> rqou, well they probably wipe everything somehow but on that note, i wonder if you could achieve persistence and get it to do stuff for you for free :P
<pie_> those are orthogonal actually
<rqou> persistence is quite unlikely
<pie_> yeah i dont think so either. its too obvious to miss
<rqou> especially since xilinx has a prog_b pin that automatically deconfigures everything
<pie_> i see
<azonenberg> and i can only assume they dont have any boot flash
<azonenberg> Or if they do its a basic "PCIe bitstream loader" design with WP strapped off
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<digshadow> diamondman: I'm probably going to get a platform cable 2 that work is tossing
<digshadow> so if you need to borrow it for testing let me know
<digshadow> also for anyone local
<digshadow> a bunch of related xilinx jtag adapters
<digshadow> not sure if that's useful to anyone
<digshadow> ie the flying leads it comes with
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<digshadow> can bring it to next mtvre if someone is interested
<rqou> i'm interested in one if it isn't a parallel port one
<rqou> my father has one of the xilinx parallel port cables lying around (the one that can't go down to 1.8v)
<balrog> rqou: I've got some of the old usb ones lying around
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<mIKEjONE1> holy shit did you guys see the amazon ultrascale virtex clusters?
<mIKEjONE1> I think they're going to cost $5-10/hr
<azonenberg> mIKEjONE1: Thats a pretty fair price given that the FPGA is around $30K per chip
<azonenberg> and yeah we were talking about it earlier
<rqou> it = "how to pwn it" :P
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<rqou> also VU9P is $30K wtf
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<rqou> what is the intended market segment of such a chip?
<azonenberg> ASIC prototyping, i think
<azonenberg> or heavy HPC
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<mIKEjONE1> AI and HFT stuff as well
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<mIKEjONE1> am I high or are these almost identical projects?
<rqou> everyone is jumping on the risc-v bandwagon apparently
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<rqou> at the risk of inviting tons of drama: does github user espes work for comma.ai?
<rqou> i was looking through their code release (https://github.com/commaai/openpilot) and see commits by him
<rqou> i thought the username was familiar and it seems he's the xqemu xbox emulator guy (http://xqemu.com/)
<rqou> anyone willing to tell me about the backstory and (lack of?) connections between geohot, "iphone dev team", fail0verflow, and any console "scenes?"
<rqou> i know geohot did some early iphone jailbreaking/unlocking and the ps3 ram glitch attack
<whitequark> it's -10°C outside and the central heating and hot water supply are off
<whitequark> $100_emoji
<azonenberg> whitequark: o_O
<azonenberg> This is in .ru not .hk right?
<whitequark> former yes
<azonenberg> i didnt think it got that cold in hk
<whitequark> -10°C in hk would mean literal apocalypse
<azonenberg> Lol
<rqou> lol
<whitequark> as every pipe bursts and roads become unusable
<whitequark> previous winter it snowed for the first time in iirc 120 years?
<whitequark> i think?
<rqou> snow in hk?
<whitequark> yep
<whitequark> it was below zero too
<rqou> anyways, nobody willing to talk about drama today/tonight? :P
<whitequark> i know nothing about george hotz or stefan esser
<whitequark> and i like it this way
<rqou> lol
<rqou> i'm just continually noticing how small and interconnected all the "let's hack things" people are
<azonenberg> rqou: its a small community indeed
<azonenberg> i mean the siliconpr0n IRC is 43 people and that includes some duplicates and one literal zombie (bushing)
<rqou> is siliconpr0n affiliated with fail0verflow in any way?
<rqou> other than having overlap in people that is?
<azonenberg> No
<azonenberg> pr0n is dig's website, i am fairly closely tied to it but not officially in charge (not a site admin etc)
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<whitequark> ooo heating's back
<balrog> I've met Stefan Esser twice, lol
<balrog> he seems alright but very opinionated
<balrog> though he does get loads of jailbreak-related abuse
<balrog> heh
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<whitequark> every time I see him say something, I see an asshole with ego the size of a small gas planet
<whitequark> *maybe* he isn't but I dunno
<balrog> whitequark: LOL
<balrog> that's about right, though I know enough other people who are assholes with egos at least as big
<whitequark> oh absolutely, infosec seems to select for those for some reason
<whitequark> one reason I try to stay away from it, publicly at least
<balrog> not necessarily in infosec
<whitequark> ah
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<felix_> the fpga price drops quite a bit when you buy them in volume from xilinx directly. depending on the volume you'll only pay about half to a third of the list price. 10k per chip is still quite some money though
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<whitequark> *facepalm*
<rqou> which aspect are you facepalming about? the belief in ghosts, the startup's business model, or the state of HK's housing market in general?
<whitequark> "The government considered building a controversial suicide theme park about a decade ago to capitalize from Hong Kong’s fear of ghosts, when death by charcoal burning hit its peak."
<whitequark> nice
<whitequark> rqou: all of the above
<whitequark> well, hk's housing market isn't all that worse than moscow's, relatively speaking
<whitequark> it's pretty hard to surprise me on that front
<rqou> relevant: my grandmother's place in HK is on a "less-desirable" floor 14
<whitequark> "You can search for an apartment with specific incidents"
<rqou> the Cantonese word for the number 14 is phonetically similar to the phrase "definitely will die"
<rqou> similar phonetically similarly also explains the insane popularity of the number 8
<whitequark> "4" was just "death" wasn't it?
<whitequark> and "8" was "rich" or something?
<azonenberg> So do they skip 14th floors the same way americans skip the 13th a lot?
<rqou> some places actually do skip 14th floors
<whitequark> ... instead of renting them to foreigners...
<whitequark> assholes
<pie_> lol
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> actually in the US what some large buildings do, to keep floor numbering sane
<azonenberg> they have tenant floors on ground...12 and 14+
<azonenberg> then make 13th a mechanical floor where all the boilers, HVAC gear, etc is
<azonenberg> i mean it's gotta go somewhere...
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<whitequark> heh, clever
<rqou> whitequark: interestingly, the number 8 sounds similar to the word 發 which is used in the phrase 發財 meaning "to get rich" but the word 發 itself just means "to send out/to issue/to develop"
<cr1901_modern> I thought number 4 was the "death number"
<rqou> 4 sounds similar to the word "to die"
<rqou> interestingly the traditional 發 was unified with 髮 meaning "hair" to form the simplified character 发
<rqou> these two characters that got unified have different tones in mandarin
<rqou> but they're homophones in cantonese
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<whitequark> rqou: also "3Y5"
<whitequark> if we're talking about homophones
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<rqou> I'm not actually sure what that is supposed to be a homophone for
<whitequark> free wifi
<rqou> wut
<whitequark> it... makes perfect sense to me
<rqou> oh in English, not Cantonese :P
<whitequark> yeah
<whitequark> I guess you still need a cantonese accent or something
<lain> oh I see it
<whitequark> it actually took me a few weeks. but one day i went "three wai five, the hell is that mea... oh."
<lain> hahah
<rqou> btw the word for "unlimited" (无限) and the word for "wireless" (无线) are homophones in mandarin for extra fun
<rqou> so "unlimited internet access" and "wireless internet access" would be homophones
<cr1901_modern> wai, wye, why *makes a list of all phonetic spellings of "Y"*
<rqou> btw 3Y5 works better with a cantonese accent
<rqou> there's no "th" sound in cantonese so i've heard it approximated with an "f" sound
<whitequark> ahhh
<rqou> and consonants in the coda of syllables (the "v" sound in "five") tend to get shortened/omitted too
<rqou> btw this is a nice chart to give yourself a headache: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cantonese_tones.svg
<rqou> although vietnamese is even more awesome because one of its tones has a glottal stop in it: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:VietnameseToneNorthern.png
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<pie_> show me someone that can pronounce things by reading a chart like that
<lain> I have enough trouble learning japanese
<lain> chinese seems orders of magnitude more difficult
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