<whitequark>
The Nano is the smallest Class 3R/3B laser that is fully compliant with federal safety regulations. It features our patented MiniLock safety system which includes a removable safety key and remote interlock.
<lain>
cute
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<rqou>
the hawkers near the Eiffel tower were demonstrating their laser pointers by shining them near the middle observation deck
<rqou>
and selling (at least the rest of) their wares for 1 euro for 5 trinkets
<rqou>
so it almost certainly has no it filter
<rqou>
*ir
<rqou>
also probably has excessive output power and is poorly collimated
<rqou>
also afaik wicked lasers gets blacklisted by US customs regularly
<rqou>
because they try to just barely follow the letter of the law and try to sneak things through customs
<whitequark>
why not just lie on CN22, like most chinese suppliers do if you ask politely ?
<rqou>
iirc they already do
<rqou>
iirc their shipping addresses are specially flagged at this point
<rqou>
I've found that for French you can guess and get 50-80% of the meaning if you know enough Latin roots
<rqou>
German seems much more difficult because of how they make gigantic compound nouns that I don't know how to split
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<whitequark>
I found french pronunciation excruciating
<rqou>
oh I'm just talking about written text
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<rqou>
I've jokingly asked how you can speak French if you have a cold and can't pronounce any nasals :P
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<rqou>
the correlation between letters and phonemes seems quite weak :P
<rqou>
although English is also bad at this
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<azonenberg_hk>
rqou: at least there *is* a correlation
* azonenberg_hk
looks at chinese
<rqou>
Chinese has a correlation too
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<azonenberg_hk>
Just a very weak one?
<rqou>
I explained it the other day :P
<azonenberg_hk>
Yeah
<azonenberg_hk>
But it's a "similar to"
<rqou>
I heard Russian has a really good correlation between letters/phonemes
<lain>
japanese is easy to pronounce because syllabary, but the word boundaries can be a real bitch depending on how stuff is written
<rqou>
with the exception of hard sign/soft sign
<azonenberg_hk>
lain: and how about VHDL?
<azonenberg_hk>
Or can you only write that and not speak it
<lain>
haha
<rqou>
when my family was in Japan my parents would guess what signs say by looking at the kanji only
<lain>
yeah I haven't tried to speak a programming language since BASIC, back when I was first learning it in like 5th grade... a friend and I were teaching each other QBasic by reading the help index, and my friend always forgot what parentheses were called so we referred to them as "thing above the nine" and "thing above the zero" when reading code aloud
<rqou>
this works better the more formal the writing is :P
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<lain>
rqou: iirc the bulk of the kanji has the same meaning in both languages, but very different pronounciation or something?
<rqou>
my roommate showed me how informal Japanese is about 50% bastardized English:P
<lain>
yeah, that also helps
<lain>
how do you say computer? just say "computer" using only stuff in the syllabary
<lain>
konpyuutaa
<rqou>
the bulk of kanji have the same meaning in Chinese but may be archaic or otherwise unusual
<lain>
also I think... french? they borrow a handful of everyday words from french I think
<azonenberg_hk>
lain: german does that a bit too
<lain>
I think it's interesting that the japanese have a dedicated telephone greeting, which is only used for answering the telephone
<azonenberg_hk>
at least with some technical vocabulary
<azonenberg_hk>
??
<rqou>
heh, the Chinese word for computer can act as a shibboleth
<lain>
I wonder if other languages have that
<rqou>
PRC/TW use different words
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<rqou>
although there's actually a lot of PRC/TW shibboleths
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<rqou>
being on a high-speed train seems to make the hybrid/assisted GPS in my phone very confused
<rqou>
offtopic: why is there no ##openfpga Minecraft server azonenberg_hk?
<azonenberg_hk>
rqou: Because nobody wrote a redstone cell library for yosys yet
<azonenberg_hk>
So there's nothing to test on it
<rqou>
lool
<azonenberg_hk>
In all seriousness if you start one i'll join
<rqou>
modded?
<azonenberg_hk>
I usually play vanilla, did you have a mod in mind?
<rqou>
I'll have to check the current status of mods/updates/drama :P
<azonenberg_hk>
Lol
<rqou>
gotta have whatever the redpower clone is because of ##openfpga
<azonenberg_hk>
That i would be fine with
<azonenberg_hk>
that would be an awesome april fools poc, lol
<azonenberg_hk>
verilog to redstone
<rqou>
also gotta have railcraft because we all probably love trains at least a little bit :P
<azonenberg_hk>
and lulz aside, it would also be an excellent way for me to get acquainted with tile-based routing fabrics
<rqou>
possibly a lot :P
<azonenberg_hk>
as opposed to the crossbars i've written toolchains for in the past
<azonenberg_hk>
Make a bunch of basic constructs for vias, standard cells, etc
<rqou>
I mentioned that redpower has a way to build really dense ROMs
<azonenberg_hk>
obviously a block is a lambda
<azonenberg_hk>
but we'd want to figure out how many lambdas to use as a cell pitch
<rqou>
I have a map somewhere with a 7-segment decoder in redpower
<azonenberg_hk>
Lol
<azonenberg_hk>
So as far as layer names
<azonenberg_hk>
would we still name stuff like ICs?
<azonenberg_hk>
ground level roughly corresponds to implants
<azonenberg_hk>
blocks you use as gates are poly
<azonenberg_hk>
torches on top of blocks are... poly2?
<rqou>
have to use Wn instead of Mn (W for wool :P )
<azonenberg_hk>
i was gonna call them R for redstone
<azonenberg_hk>
ok how's this
<azonenberg_hk>
COBBLE layer is in-cell interconnect on the ground plus bricks and output inverters
<azonenberg_hk>
blocks*
<azonenberg_hk>
TORCH layer is torches on tops of cells
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<azonenberg_hk>
Then above there you have redstone 1...N
<rqou>
btw I was about to type something about redstone and the Android keyboard lookahead automatically suggests "torch"
<azonenberg_hk>
That sound like a sane convention?
<azonenberg_hk>
lol
<rqou>
Google knows
<azonenberg_hk>
i seriously think this would be a fun way to get some attention on the project
<rqou>
hmm I'm not sure
<rqou>
what about pistons?
<azonenberg_hk>
Dynamic 2D logic runs in the COBBLE layer
<azonenberg_hk>
If you needed 3D active circuitry you'd have TORCH1, TORCH2, etc
<azonenberg_hk>
like multi-poly flash processes etc have
<azonenberg_hk>
COBBLE is the first thing above ground
<azonenberg_hk>
TORCH is anything you have between that and interconnect
<azonenberg_hk>
then REDSTONE[1...N] are interconnect
<rqou>
not WOOL?
<azonenberg_hk>
Wool is ILD, no?
<azonenberg_hk>
just a support for the redstone traces
<rqou>
lol sure
<azonenberg_hk>
You dont need a name for it
<azonenberg_hk>
just call it a via layer
<rqou>
we need an ##openfpga quotes page too it seems :P
<azonenberg_hk>
Lol
<azonenberg_hk>
on a more serious note i am working on bitstream generation for slg4662x SPI now
<rqou>
why does this project not have a wiki? (other than "wikis suck at conveying information")
<azonenberg_hk>
it does, on the github
<azonenberg_hk>
the psoc team is the only group using it right now afaik
<rqou>
hmm ok
<azonenberg_hk>
if you dont already have github access pm my main nick with your username and i'll add you when i get back
<rqou>
also apparently I can roam between towers reasonably reliably on a TGV train, no GSM-R required
<azonenberg_hk>
nice
<rqou>
I'm assuming ##openfpga Minecraft would turn into just huge piles of redstone logic and rail yards :P
<rqou>
with a bunch of automated farms in the middle
<rqou>
btw did I ever describe my Minecraft cow-powered automated wheat farm?
<azonenberg_hk>
Nope
<rqou>
a cow in a box was the critical fuel source :P
<azonenberg_hk>
lol how does that work?
<azonenberg_hk>
and in the past i've had problems with logic freezing when i got too far away
<azonenberg_hk>
and not restarting
<rqou>
have you heard of buildcraft?
<azonenberg_hk>
is that patched by now?
<azonenberg_hk>
like, ring oscillators would hang
<azonenberg_hk>
i'd see an inverter hung in a stable state with in and out the same
<azonenberg_hk>
and it never woke up
<rqou>
probably not, just spam chunkloaders :P
<rqou>
anyways, there is a mod called "Forestry for Minecraft" that has some automated farm blocks
<rqou>
they require buildcraft energy to run
<rqou>
but the mod also adds a biofuel engine to produce energy
<azonenberg_hk>
no i dont know about buildcraft
<rqou>
the biofuel engine can run on milk but produces less energy
<rqou>
enough to run the farm block though
<rqou>
so you combine this with the redpower mod
<rqou>
which has a "simulate right click" block
<rqou>
you load buckets into the "simulate right click" block and trap a cow on top of it
<rqou>
infinite energy! :P
<rqou>
there's yet another mod that has a "silence sound effects" block
<rqou>
you place that next to the cow so you don't hear it :P
<rqou>
hey, still more humane than testificate grinders :P :P
<azonenberg_hk>
The big thing i'd want is a low-K/copper metallization mod
<azonenberg_hk>
aka lower parasitic R on redstone wires
<azonenberg_hk>
delays*
<azonenberg_hk>
and possibly faster propagation dealys
<azonenberg_hk>
Because trying to make a chip^h^h^h^hcity with say six or eight metal layers
<azonenberg_hk>
is going to be a pain in the butt if you need to add active repeaters on the upper layers and vias :p
<azonenberg_hk>
every ten blocks or so
<azonenberg_hk>
i mean i expect some upper layer repeaters will be a must
<azonenberg_hk>
We can have the detail router add those and pretend they're not there for the rest of the PAR
<azonenberg_hk>
As long as we record how many we used, because we'll need to take them into account when doing static timing analysis
<rqou>
redpower has a "lower parasitic R" wire but not necessarily faster propagation delay
<azonenberg_hk>
(you didn't think we'd do a redstone PAR without STA right? :P)
<rqou>
most redstone logic built my "normal" people just has race conditions
<azonenberg_hk>
Loool
<rqou>
and/or are sensitive to server lag
<azonenberg_hk>
Yeah well
<azonenberg_hk>
If we want to do this right
<azonenberg_hk>
Like crazy people who think writing EDA tools is fun
<azonenberg_hk>
We need a timing analyzer :p
<rqou>
and find bugs in the actual redstone implementation?
<azonenberg_hk>
And have to do things like synchronizing external logic to the clock to ensure setup time requirements are met further down the line
<azonenberg_hk>
varying delays on repeaters to balance timing
<azonenberg_hk>
etc
<rqou>
several versions ago somebody managed to do a "wireless redstone in Vanilla" function that relied on a metastable state and Java's hash table implementation
<azonenberg_hk>
As well as calculating Fmax, in Hz, for the design
<azonenberg_hk>
lool
<azonenberg_hk>
we're not going to be that genetic algorithm FPGA guy taking advantage of die parasitics
<azonenberg_hk>
i want to make stuff against the published redstone design kit
<rqou>
what about the well-established "BUD switch" metastable state?
<azonenberg_hk>
Is that officially supported/documented yet?
<rqou>
the modern version no longer requires a boat :P
<rqou>
I don't know, haven't looked in a while
<azonenberg_hk>
i mean i guess we can just put it in a hard macro
<azonenberg_hk>
and instantiate it in HDL as a primitive
<rqou>
btw not directly related but a while back somebody realized that Java's LCG PRNG has a fixed point
<rqou>
using that as a world seed gives interesting results
<azonenberg_hk>
Lool oh? screenshot?
<azonenberg_hk>
(* LOC = "-350, 68, 241" *) MC_BUDSWITCH switch(.OUT(melon_sprouted));
<azonenberg_hk>
rqou: something like that
<rqou>
I don't have a screenshot right now
<rqou>
loool
<azonenberg_hk>
actually we might want to limit ourselves to 2D for simplicity of the router
<azonenberg_hk>
so you'd specify the "chip" to be located at a given Y coordinate
<azonenberg_hk>
Which might be a couple blocks in the air
<rqou>
idk if BUD switches are tile-able
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<azonenberg_hk>
Then you;d have TCVs (through-cobble vias) below the cobble layer
<azonenberg_hk>
and manually created connections out from them to the rest of the map
<azonenberg_hk>
and yeah you might have to build those on site
<azonenberg_hk>
and just feed them into the pad ring of the machine-PAR'd code
<azonenberg_hk>
Although, if we were going to integrate with a world editor anyway
<azonenberg_hk>
it might not be too hard to have an IO feature that lets you put cells at given 3D coordinates
<azonenberg_hk>
then wire them up to the cube of machine-routed logic by following terrain
cr1901_modern1 is now known as cr1901_modern
<azonenberg_hk>
And respect pad setup/hold constraints
<rqou>
I just realized that redstone may not behave identically depending on orientation
<rqou>
see, it's just like a real silicon crystal with crystal planes :P
<azonenberg_hk>
I was planning to have a canonical orientation
<rqou>
btw I've never seen "normal people" build synchronous logic in Minecraft
<rqou>
it's all async
<azonenberg_hk>
say cells moving along the X axis
<azonenberg_hk>
rows spaced every 10ish lambdas
<azonenberg_hk>
on the Y axis
<azonenberg_hk>
then redstone 1 is local interconnect, redstone 2 short range Y axis, redstone 3 short range X axis
<azonenberg_hk>
R4 global Y, R5 global X
<azonenberg_hk>
We could then either have a pad ring on R5 that connects to the rest of the world and have the 'die' buried undergroud
<azonenberg_hk>
Or have TCVs coming down from the cobble layer with the die floating in the air
<azonenberg_hk>
not sure which makes more sense and the tool will probably have to be somewhat tailored to one or the other
<rqou>
hmm I don't know if normal world editors can place non-Vanilla blocks correctly
<rqou>
depending on if redpower gets used or not
<azonenberg_hk>
How well doc'd is the chunk format?
<azonenberg_hk>
is it practical to do it ourself?
<azonenberg_hk>
are there libraries to do it?
<azonenberg_hk>
And honestly i am leaning toward doing it in vanilla
<azonenberg_hk>
now that i think moe
<azonenberg_hk>
more*
<azonenberg_hk>
maybe have mods for peripherals created by hand
<azonenberg_hk>
but vanilla for the logic core
<azonenberg_hk>
it might be a touch more work to design the cells but would probably be cooler in the end if we said this was all vanilla
<azonenberg_hk>
Also hmm
<rqou>
chunk format is completely documented
<azonenberg_hk>
It's around 1800 in hong kong and 2 in the morning in seattle
<azonenberg_hk>
five and a half hours till i land
<rqou>
but mod tile entity metadata isn't
<azonenberg_hk>
i'm simultaneously not tired, and not looking forward to a 36-hour day with no sleep
<azonenberg_hk>
:P
<azonenberg_hk>
aaanyway i got the first crack of GP_SPI done and pushed to my fork
<azonenberg_hk>
Will try and merge everything after the xmas weekend is over
<rqou>
lol
<rqou>
I'm currently on the German-French border
<azonenberg_hk>
And then write a bazillion test cases
<azonenberg_hk>
i added support for half a dozen new ip blocks and none have ever been tried in hardware :p
<azonenberg_hk>
they look fine in the gui but... :p
<rqou>
hmm somehow F-Bouygues Telecom really doesn't like me
<azonenberg_hk>
?
<rqou>
Orange and Free are fine
<rqou>
whenever my phone roams to F-Bouygues Telecom my data connection gets really slow
<rqou>
I'm on a 3 UK sim with data roaming
<azonenberg_hk>
first guess... your phone doesnt have whatever LTE band they use
<azonenberg_hk>
So you degrade to older speeds
<rqou>
also, my phone's GPS insists we're still in Paris near the Boulevard Peripherique :P
<azonenberg_hk>
Better than the time I was on long island
<azonenberg_hk>
and my phone thought i was at the seattle ferry terminal
<azonenberg_hk>
pretty sure thats a bit further than paris to germany
<rqou>
I didn't get LTE anywhere in France so far
<rqou>
I was getting LTE in London
<azonenberg_hk>
so maybe no 3G/HSPA either
<azonenberg_hk>
on their bands
<azonenberg_hk>
idk
<azonenberg_hk>
i generally dont expect a phone to work reliably at full speed anywhere other than where you bought it :p
<azonenberg_hk>
Aaanyway gonna go try and sleep a bit
<azonenberg_hk>
for real :p
* cr1901_modern
just woke up
<rqou>
just crossed the border into Germany
<rqou>
and immediately you lose all French cellular networks and roam onto German ones
<rqou>
it's not like the HK<->SZ border where it's easy to accidentally pay $Infinity because of roaming :P
<rqou>
(actually afaik most HK/SZ plans have reasonable cross-border roaming fees)
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<azonenberg_hk>
rqou: lol probably for that reason
<azonenberg_hk>
my tmobile plan is saneish in canada too
<azonenberg_hk>
one time i was on a hike in olympic national park
<azonenberg_hk>
got a text form my carrier "welcome to canada"
<rqou>
inb4 whitequark claims that the US system of postpaid plans is dumb :P
<azonenberg_hk>
Lol
<rqou>
hey, Europeans never get stuck with multi-thousand-dollar roaming charges
<rqou>
also my phone's battery sensor is really f*cked right now
<rqou>
it's been going 50% to 0% for a while now
<rqou>
earlier it decided to go 70% to 0%
<rqou>
I forced it back on twice and now it's 20%
<rqou>
the coulomb counter must be really confused or something
<azonenberg_hk>
Sounds like $WIFE's phone
<azonenberg_hk>
it was derping out too, giving absurd usage figures
<rqou>
Nexus 6P?
<azonenberg_hk>
no
<azonenberg_hk>
lg
<azonenberg_hk>
k10? or was that the old one
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<rqou>
offtopic: why is there so much graffiti in Germany?
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<felix_>
in big cities like berlin or near some train stations, there is quite a lot, but in general i wouldn't say that there is that much graffiti here
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<rqou>
there seems to be a lot here near Frankfurt HbF
<felix_>
i don't really know, but probably places like around train stations are popular for that sort of stuff, since a lot of people will see it there
<rqou>
btw felix_ where in Germany are you?
<felix_>
i live in karlsruhe most of the time, but at the moment, i'm at my patent's house, which is maybe 60km away from hannover
<rqou>
ah, so nowhere near me
<felix_>
no
<rqou>
btw I find that the German "concatenate all the words together" feature makes it much harder to guess what words mean :P
<rqou>
because I can't tell where individual meaning components begin/end
<azonenberg_hk>
rqou: lol
<azonenberg_hk>
yes but it also means if you know the root words
<felix_>
yeah, if you don't really know the words, it's probably difficult to tokenize words properly that consist of multiple concatenated words
<azonenberg_hk>
finding out what a panzerkampfwagen is
<azonenberg_hk>
is quite easy
<azonenberg_hk>
it's a wagen for kampf-ing that's panzer'd :p
<rvense>
it's like all those attempts at subtitling der untergang
<rvense>
a lot of people on the internet are really bad at german
<azonenberg_hk>
Indeed
<azonenberg_hk>
Ich spreche ein bischen Deutsch but not enough to do... much of anything
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<rvense>
same
<rvense>
enough to make germans smile and nod and switch to english..
<lain>
lol
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<rqou>
why are there so many Asian restaurants in Frankfurt?
<felix_>
why not? ;P
<rqou>
I can get that in the SF bay :P
<rqou>
it's probably better too
<felix_>
yeah, the really cheap ones can be quite hit or miss...
<rqou>
there's a shitty cheap Chinese restaurant near $FANCY_SCHOOL
<rqou>
rumor says the food is better if you order in Cantonese :P
<rqou>
how come so many people in Europe smoke?
<felix_>
same situation in karlsruhe; after i ate some stuff at the really cheap chinese place near the university, i got some rather bad stomach problems
<felix_>
hm, dunno; in berlin there are quite a lot of people smoking; in most other cities i visited not so much
<rqou>
but did you try ordering in Cantonese? :P
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<felix_>
nope
* felix_
doesn't speak any asian language
<rqou>
I speak "fluent" Cantonese (native L1 pronunciation with limited vocabulary) :P
<felix_>
being able to speak a lot of languages is imho always a good thing. /me wants to learn more languages, but doesn't really have the time for that :/
<rqou>
ive been meaning to learn some German but don't really have time either
<rqou>
it's in the queue behind "improve Mandarin"
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<rqou>
my "languages to learn" queue: Mandarin, German, Spanish
<lain>
I keep meaning to learn japanese
<lain>
took two years of it in high school, could hold a conversation... but it's all gone now :P
<lain>
beyond cultural interest, it would be nice to watch anime without having to read subtitles :x
<whitequark>
lain: that frankly sounds like a massive amount of effort for rather little benefit
<whitequark>
that's apart from the fact that really good fansub groups include cultural commentary also
* whitequark
would watch anime with an entire alternate track that provides context, even if that means stopping every 30 seconds, because they are used to stopping every 30 seconds anyway to google the things shaft puts on walls and signs
* felix_
has learned neither chinese nor russian, since google translate does a not too bad job...
<rqou>
my language wishlist: Japanese, Hindi, Arabic, Russian
<lain>
whitequark: lol
<rqou>
aka "I'm never going to spend the effort to learn these" :P
<whitequark>
arabic would be interesting
<whitequark>
it has an alphabet and a whole lot of people using it
<lain>
whitequark: yeah I mean, I agree - the main reason is just I like the language. I would still leave subs on for the cultural references even if I didn't need them for the dialog
<rqou>
be one of those "white guys living in Japan because of the girls" :P
<lain>
haha
<rqou>
felix_: every time I tried RU->EN machine translation random (usually important) nouns remain untranslated
<lain>
google translate is really bad at japanese
<rqou>
the best/easiest machine translation is supposedly FR->EN
<lain>
interestingly, I saw some paper a while back that says the information density for japanese is really low