<azonenberg> rqou: lol
<rqou> yup, doing a lab deep clean right now
<rqou> since I've had three "meltdowns" already
<rqou> i made sure i was safe at least
<rqou> there will be a postmortem/lab notebook later
* whitequark stares at rqou
<rqou> a bit too ghetto?
<whitequark> i had 1 (one) acid spill into a specifically prepared acid spill container,
<whitequark> actually no wait
<whitequark> that was my ghetto ghetto build.
<whitequark> the ghetto build did not have any incidents
<rqou> my build is probably beyond ghetto
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<whitequark> it does sound so yes
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<azonenberg> whitequark: i had one acid spill, of about 2 ml, in my homebrew fume hood
<azonenberg> that was my worst accident
<azonenberg> it was contanied to the hood
<whitequark> azonenberg: my ghetto ghetto setup had one acid spill from an overheated test tube into a ceramic cup underneath
<whitequark> i specifcally expected this because of experimenting with thermal parameters, so i don't count that as an accident
<azonenberg> This was a legitimate accident, but contained by engineering controls
<whitequark> i did have a few boil-outs, which splashed drops of acid on the wall and window, but it turns out that glass and plastic dgaf about hot nitric
<whitequark> so.... I just used a wet sponge to wipe that
<whitequark> it was extremely anticlimactic in the end
<azonenberg> My issue here was, i had decanted sulfuric from a tiny 5ml beaker into a second beaker to check if the decap was done
<azonenberg> It was not, so i poured it back in
<azonenberg> not noticing a tiny drip on the bottom of the first beaker that had run down from the spout to the bottom, i put it back on the hot plate
<azonenberg> a minute or so later the drop started to boil
<azonenberg> the beaker jiggled around on the resulting vapor cushion until it fell off the plate
<azonenberg> The spill was tiny and stayed in the hood, i was wearing proper PPE, so no negative outcomes
<whitequark> have I told about my roommate here
<whitequark> she didn't study chemistry in any sort of formal way but decided to repeat a nitration I attempted before without reading all the docs I sent her
<whitequark> well sure enough *something* was subtly different and she got an exotherm
<whitequark> the magnetic stirrer's surface was bent downwards with a large radius, and its rubber feet actually *punched through* the table we used (some ikea shit but it was still wood)
<azonenberg> > didn't study chemistry
<azonenberg> > attempted a nitration
<whitequark> I know right?
<azonenberg> like, i know enough chem to not attempt nitration of... anything, really :p
<whitequark> anyway, the reaction flask fragmented and sent glass and acid (although much more glass than acid since most acid converted into NO2) everywhere
<azonenberg> when i work with hno3 it's only to oxidize things
<whitequark> including into her soft squishy parts
<whitequark> she's been extracting massive glass shards with tweezers for something like three days afterwards
<whitequark> you should've seen the photos
<whitequark> she was wearing PPE and as a result the face and respiratory organs did not suffer at all, i taught her at least *something*
<whitequark> but needless to say that was an unfortunate and completely unnecessary accident
<azonenberg> yeeeah
<whitequark> i would do nitration. i mean i did
<whitequark> it acted *super weird*
<azonenberg> yeah but you know more chem than me
<azonenberg> if i wanted to do something like that i'd prob set up a big polycarbonate blast shield between me and the reaction vessel
<azonenberg> Just in case
<whitequark> it did nothing for eight hours and then, when my pump coolant pump failed, decided that *now* it's going to start
<azonenberg> lol
<whitequark> so i quenched the entire thing with a large pan with water before it could get out of hand
<whitequark> result: a minor NO2 cloud
<whitequark> no damage other than to my pride
<whitequark> PC shield is not a bad idea yes
<whitequark> somewhat of an overkill but why not
<whitequark> so long as you have some way of quenching the reaction even with the shield down
<whitequark> mostly, the key part is planning, and then not losing your head if it doesn't do what you think it should do
<whitequark> even if in the heat of the moment it looks like it's going to kill you now, it probably doesn't, unless you do something on a scale you really should not attempt to do, and swift action can save you time, trouble, money
<whitequark> see also: oil kitchen fires
<whitequark> you could let the house burn down and see the fire dept quench the ashes, OR you could put the fucking lid on
<rqou> so for me:
<rqou> meltdown one happened when i was trying to neutralize spent acid with baking soda
<rqou> adding baking soda too quickly caused the contents of the beaker to bubble out and onto the carpet
<rqou> but i had already diluted the mix with water
<rqou> so the fix was to dump baking soda on the carpet
<rqou> meltdown two was the major meltdown I'm still dealing with
<rqou> after two successful decaps with relatively small parts, i decided to scale up and decap a bunch of parts at once
<rqou> including an xc95288xl in a huge tqfp
<rqou> i totally underestimated how much plastic is in one of these packages
<rqou> as it was heating, i turned off the hotplate as the mixture started to bubble
<rqou> but then i see it suddenly bubble more rapidly, say to myself "oh shit" and run out of the room
<rqou> the acid bubbled out and onto the surface of the hotplate, and because this is a shitty kitchen hotplate, reacts with the coating on it
<rqou> producing a huge plume of smoke
<rqou> I'm still airing out the room right now
<rqou> meltdown three happened as i was pouring out the spent acid from the previous run
<rqou> and spilled some on the carpet
<rqou> this was fixed by dumping even more baking soda on the carpet
<rqou> anyways, now I've learned to put the small beaker inside a much larger beaker rather than directly on the hotplate
<rqou> (in case it isn't obvious, idgaf about the state of the carpet)
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> whitequark: btw when i move next year
<azonenberg> i'm looking at getting a clean agent gas fire suppression system in the garage/lab area
<azonenberg> they're surprisingly not as expensive as i had feared
<whitequark> mm
<whitequark> rqou: google "water bath"
<whitequark> or "sand mantle" (i think this is the english term)
<whitequark> sand might be more appropriate with high temperatures you need with sulfuric
<whitequark> re: adding soda too quickly, yes, this is a classic
<rqou> hmm is that actually necessary?
<rqou> "small beaker inside large beaker" seems good enough
<whitequark> well it will work better than small beaker / large beaker combo
<whitequark> because it has much more contact surface area
<rqou> ah true
<whitequark> and thus results in a) higher heat flow b) less strain on glass
<whitequark> (b) worries me here
<rqou> i don't think i need more heat flow right now
<whitequark> like putting glass on glass when it's not like, float glass, is a shitty way to contact surfaces
<whitequark> they'll contact at a few points. like. three.
<azonenberg> rqou: fwiw, "we scaled up this process that worked fine on a small scale"
<azonenberg> is like the #1 cause of chem accidents :p
<whitequark> ^^^
<rqou> ah i see what you mean about the contact
<rqou> it's still good enough for now because it's a tiny 50mL beaker on a >1kW hotplate
<rqou> anyways, I'm going to switch to adding sand
<rqou> once the "can't be good for you" smell dissipates :P
<lain> rqou: what acid were you using?
<rqou> very hot sulfuric
<rqou> which decomposed the hotplate coating material
<rqou> unfortunately I don't know what material it is
<rqou> the part that had acid spilled onto it turned into a nice fine ash
<rqou> and now my room smells "something vaguely like chlorine or ozone, but somehow more 'electronic-y'"
<whitequark> *sigh*
<whitequark> fucking hell
<rqou> i only tested the smell well after the smoke plume dissipated
<rqou> probably should have just sandblasted off the coating
<rqou> oh btw the hotplate still works after all this :P
<lain> see nurdrage for info about hotplates and chemical resistance
<lain> I vaguely recall him doing some videos on how to spot cheap ones that might survive chemicals, or something? maybe?
<rqou> he had one of these?
<lain> nurdrage uses hot plates all the time, he melts a lot of them with acid :P
<lain> this became a major cost issue iirc
<rqou> but yeah, chem hotplates are ridiculously expensive and not high power
<rqou> whereas i paid around $20 for a kitchen hotplate that easily hits just under 400 degrees C
<rqou> it doesn't have a stirrer, but guess what? you can't stir a decap mix anyways because teflon doesn't survive those temperatures
<lain> glass stir rod!
<lain> oh you mean a uhhh
<lain> magnetic one
<lain> yeah
<rqou> i guess you can get/make a glass-encapsulated stir bar
<rqou> azonenberg: btw, we should homebrew a hotplate stirrer at some point
<rqou> they're really not that complicated, but existing ones _suck_
<azonenberg> mine is a glassy ceramic coating
<azonenberg> i havent been able to destroy it with anything
<rqou> have you had a nurdrage-esque heating element or triac failure?
<azonenberg> most i've done is dripped H2SO4 decap residue on it and stain it with carbon
<azonenberg> No
<rqou> i guess the triac failure wouldn't be as bad for you because you're an actual EE :P
<rqou> hmm
<rqou> it's interesting that you've never burned out the element though
<rqou> hmm i just realized something
<rqou> azonenberg: i wonder if the shitty kitchen hotplate i have is actually an induction hotplate
<rqou> some notes in the "manual" hint at such, but it also says "compatible with all cookware" because it has a cast iron top
<azonenberg> lol
<rqou> this also explains why it can easily hit 400 degrees C
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<sn00n> hello
<sn00n> okay, i guess i need to put a black paper tube into the scopes tubus to prevent those nasty reflections
<sn00n> and i need super parallel blocks i guess
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<sn00n> btw how do you mount the chips on a specimen holder?
<sn00n> underfill resine?
<sn00n> ironically most SEM stages have a tilt axis & most light microscopes stages have not
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<sn00n> :<
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<azonenberg> sn00n: i actually installed a tilt axis on mine, aftermarket
<azonenberg> its not ideal and i want to change how it's done
<azonenberg> but i do have one
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<sn00n> azonenberg: ok, expensive? :)
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<awygle> Can you actually buy those sifive riscv micros?
<awygle> The FE310 not the new one
<shapr> I think that's in the arduino-profile board they're selling
<shapr> new one claims to have a devboard for sale in 2018
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<awygle> shapr: yeah, but I was considering putting it on a board of my own and I can't find a source
<pie_> people doing coool shittttt
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<jn__> awygle: yes
<shapr> awygle: I have several of the arduino profile boards, they're nice
<awygle> jn__: ah thanks! Didn't notice the chip option there. I wonder how I'd go about getting a tray of them...
<awygle> shapr: awesome, what are you using them for?
<shapr> really fast arduinos :-P
<shapr> This month I'm doing a conference badge project, and next month is baby's first PCB, so I probably won't get back to myy sifive boards for awhile
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<rqou> why is ROS full of stupid microservices?
<rqou> why can't people use something simple, like a function call?
<awygle> It's important to scale your robots to hundreds of independent nodes
<rqou> no, it isn't
<awygle> If your robot works, no one will renew your grant
<rqou> lol that is true
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<awygle> (I have never actually used ros)
<rqou> never took 106a/206a?
<awygle> Nope
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<grantsmith> azonenberg, quick question if I may. https://twitter.com/azonenberg/status/914322479484518402 <-- what CAD software do you use ?
<whitequark> kicad
<grantsmith> awesome, thanks
<awygle> Should I complicate the hardware or the software of this board? I'm either doing the board in kicad and the code in C or the board in altium and the code in rust...
<whitequark> i vote for rust
<balrog> I vote for kicad and rust
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<balrog> though kicad + C is better than altium + anything because more FOSS
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<whitequark> ehhhh i still use sublime text
<whitequark> because no foss editor even comes close
<lain> VSCode seems pretty great
<lain> haven't tried it myself, though
<lain> and I know >80% of FOSS people will hate it simply because it has Microsoft in the name
<lain> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<whitequark> vscode is slow
<whitequark> like. really slow
<whitequark> fucking browser
<whitequark> i've tried using it and
<whitequark> just
<whitequark> no
<whitequark> there was also something else but I don't recall what
<awygle> Atom, maybe? Same issue
<whitequark> yes