<rqou>
there will be a postmortem/lab notebook later
* whitequark
stares at rqou
<rqou>
a bit too ghetto?
<whitequark>
i had 1 (one) acid spill into a specifically prepared acid spill container,
<whitequark>
actually no wait
<whitequark>
that was my ghetto ghetto build.
<whitequark>
the ghetto build did not have any incidents
<rqou>
my build is probably beyond ghetto
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<whitequark>
it does sound so yes
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<azonenberg>
whitequark: i had one acid spill, of about 2 ml, in my homebrew fume hood
<azonenberg>
that was my worst accident
<azonenberg>
it was contanied to the hood
<whitequark>
azonenberg: my ghetto ghetto setup had one acid spill from an overheated test tube into a ceramic cup underneath
<whitequark>
i specifcally expected this because of experimenting with thermal parameters, so i don't count that as an accident
<azonenberg>
This was a legitimate accident, but contained by engineering controls
<whitequark>
i did have a few boil-outs, which splashed drops of acid on the wall and window, but it turns out that glass and plastic dgaf about hot nitric
<whitequark>
so.... I just used a wet sponge to wipe that
<whitequark>
it was extremely anticlimactic in the end
<azonenberg>
My issue here was, i had decanted sulfuric from a tiny 5ml beaker into a second beaker to check if the decap was done
<azonenberg>
It was not, so i poured it back in
<azonenberg>
not noticing a tiny drip on the bottom of the first beaker that had run down from the spout to the bottom, i put it back on the hot plate
<azonenberg>
a minute or so later the drop started to boil
<azonenberg>
the beaker jiggled around on the resulting vapor cushion until it fell off the plate
<azonenberg>
The spill was tiny and stayed in the hood, i was wearing proper PPE, so no negative outcomes
<whitequark>
have I told about my roommate here
<whitequark>
she didn't study chemistry in any sort of formal way but decided to repeat a nitration I attempted before without reading all the docs I sent her
<whitequark>
well sure enough *something* was subtly different and she got an exotherm
<whitequark>
the magnetic stirrer's surface was bent downwards with a large radius, and its rubber feet actually *punched through* the table we used (some ikea shit but it was still wood)
<azonenberg>
> didn't study chemistry
<azonenberg>
> attempted a nitration
<whitequark>
I know right?
<azonenberg>
like, i know enough chem to not attempt nitration of... anything, really :p
<whitequark>
anyway, the reaction flask fragmented and sent glass and acid (although much more glass than acid since most acid converted into NO2) everywhere
<azonenberg>
when i work with hno3 it's only to oxidize things
<whitequark>
including into her soft squishy parts
<whitequark>
she's been extracting massive glass shards with tweezers for something like three days afterwards
<whitequark>
you should've seen the photos
<whitequark>
she was wearing PPE and as a result the face and respiratory organs did not suffer at all, i taught her at least *something*
<whitequark>
but needless to say that was an unfortunate and completely unnecessary accident
<azonenberg>
yeeeah
<whitequark>
i would do nitration. i mean i did
<whitequark>
it acted *super weird*
<azonenberg>
yeah but you know more chem than me
<azonenberg>
if i wanted to do something like that i'd prob set up a big polycarbonate blast shield between me and the reaction vessel
<azonenberg>
Just in case
<whitequark>
it did nothing for eight hours and then, when my pump coolant pump failed, decided that *now* it's going to start
<azonenberg>
lol
<whitequark>
so i quenched the entire thing with a large pan with water before it could get out of hand
<whitequark>
result: a minor NO2 cloud
<whitequark>
no damage other than to my pride
<whitequark>
PC shield is not a bad idea yes
<whitequark>
somewhat of an overkill but why not
<whitequark>
so long as you have some way of quenching the reaction even with the shield down
<whitequark>
mostly, the key part is planning, and then not losing your head if it doesn't do what you think it should do
<whitequark>
even if in the heat of the moment it looks like it's going to kill you now, it probably doesn't, unless you do something on a scale you really should not attempt to do, and swift action can save you time, trouble, money
<whitequark>
see also: oil kitchen fires
<whitequark>
you could let the house burn down and see the fire dept quench the ashes, OR you could put the fucking lid on
<rqou>
so for me:
<rqou>
meltdown one happened when i was trying to neutralize spent acid with baking soda
<rqou>
adding baking soda too quickly caused the contents of the beaker to bubble out and onto the carpet
<rqou>
but i had already diluted the mix with water
<rqou>
so the fix was to dump baking soda on the carpet
<rqou>
meltdown two was the major meltdown I'm still dealing with
<rqou>
after two successful decaps with relatively small parts, i decided to scale up and decap a bunch of parts at once
<rqou>
including an xc95288xl in a huge tqfp
<rqou>
i totally underestimated how much plastic is in one of these packages
<rqou>
as it was heating, i turned off the hotplate as the mixture started to bubble
<rqou>
but then i see it suddenly bubble more rapidly, say to myself "oh shit" and run out of the room
<rqou>
the acid bubbled out and onto the surface of the hotplate, and because this is a shitty kitchen hotplate, reacts with the coating on it
<rqou>
producing a huge plume of smoke
<rqou>
I'm still airing out the room right now
<rqou>
meltdown three happened as i was pouring out the spent acid from the previous run
<rqou>
and spilled some on the carpet
<rqou>
this was fixed by dumping even more baking soda on the carpet
<rqou>
anyways, now I've learned to put the small beaker inside a much larger beaker rather than directly on the hotplate
<rqou>
(in case it isn't obvious, idgaf about the state of the carpet)
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
whitequark: btw when i move next year
<azonenberg>
i'm looking at getting a clean agent gas fire suppression system in the garage/lab area
<azonenberg>
they're surprisingly not as expensive as i had feared
<whitequark>
mm
<whitequark>
rqou: google "water bath"
<whitequark>
or "sand mantle" (i think this is the english term)
<whitequark>
sand might be more appropriate with high temperatures you need with sulfuric
<whitequark>
re: adding soda too quickly, yes, this is a classic
<rqou>
hmm is that actually necessary?
<rqou>
"small beaker inside large beaker" seems good enough
<whitequark>
well it will work better than small beaker / large beaker combo
<whitequark>
because it has much more contact surface area
<rqou>
ah true
<whitequark>
and thus results in a) higher heat flow b) less strain on glass
<whitequark>
(b) worries me here
<rqou>
i don't think i need more heat flow right now
<whitequark>
like putting glass on glass when it's not like, float glass, is a shitty way to contact surfaces
<whitequark>
they'll contact at a few points. like. three.
<azonenberg>
rqou: fwiw, "we scaled up this process that worked fine on a small scale"
<azonenberg>
is like the #1 cause of chem accidents :p
<whitequark>
^^^
<rqou>
ah i see what you mean about the contact
<rqou>
it's still good enough for now because it's a tiny 50mL beaker on a >1kW hotplate
<rqou>
anyways, I'm going to switch to adding sand
<rqou>
once the "can't be good for you" smell dissipates :P
<lain>
rqou: what acid were you using?
<rqou>
very hot sulfuric
<rqou>
which decomposed the hotplate coating material
<rqou>
unfortunately I don't know what material it is
<rqou>
the part that had acid spilled onto it turned into a nice fine ash
<rqou>
and now my room smells "something vaguely like chlorine or ozone, but somehow more 'electronic-y'"
<whitequark>
*sigh*
<whitequark>
fucking hell
<rqou>
i only tested the smell well after the smoke plume dissipated
<rqou>
probably should have just sandblasted off the coating
<rqou>
oh btw the hotplate still works after all this :P
<lain>
see nurdrage for info about hotplates and chemical resistance
<lain>
I vaguely recall him doing some videos on how to spot cheap ones that might survive chemicals, or something? maybe?
<rqou>
he had one of these?
<lain>
nurdrage uses hot plates all the time, he melts a lot of them with acid :P
<lain>
this became a major cost issue iirc
<rqou>
but yeah, chem hotplates are ridiculously expensive and not high power
<rqou>
whereas i paid around $20 for a kitchen hotplate that easily hits just under 400 degrees C
<rqou>
it doesn't have a stirrer, but guess what? you can't stir a decap mix anyways because teflon doesn't survive those temperatures
<lain>
glass stir rod!
<lain>
oh you mean a uhhh
<lain>
magnetic one
<lain>
yeah
<rqou>
i guess you can get/make a glass-encapsulated stir bar
<rqou>
azonenberg: btw, we should homebrew a hotplate stirrer at some point
<rqou>
they're really not that complicated, but existing ones _suck_
<azonenberg>
mine is a glassy ceramic coating
<azonenberg>
i havent been able to destroy it with anything
<rqou>
have you had a nurdrage-esque heating element or triac failure?
<azonenberg>
most i've done is dripped H2SO4 decap residue on it and stain it with carbon
<azonenberg>
No
<rqou>
i guess the triac failure wouldn't be as bad for you because you're an actual EE :P
<rqou>
hmm
<rqou>
it's interesting that you've never burned out the element though
<rqou>
hmm i just realized something
<rqou>
azonenberg: i wonder if the shitty kitchen hotplate i have is actually an induction hotplate
<rqou>
some notes in the "manual" hint at such, but it also says "compatible with all cookware" because it has a cast iron top
<azonenberg>
lol
<rqou>
this also explains why it can easily hit 400 degrees C
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<sn00n>
hello
<sn00n>
okay, i guess i need to put a black paper tube into the scopes tubus to prevent those nasty reflections
<sn00n>
and i need super parallel blocks i guess
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<sn00n>
btw how do you mount the chips on a specimen holder?
<sn00n>
underfill resine?
<sn00n>
ironically most SEM stages have a tilt axis & most light microscopes stages have not
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<sn00n>
:<
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<azonenberg>
sn00n: i actually installed a tilt axis on mine, aftermarket
<azonenberg>
its not ideal and i want to change how it's done
<azonenberg>
but i do have one
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<shapr>
awygle: I have several of the arduino profile boards, they're nice
<awygle>
jn__: ah thanks! Didn't notice the chip option there. I wonder how I'd go about getting a tray of them...
<awygle>
shapr: awesome, what are you using them for?
<shapr>
really fast arduinos :-P
<shapr>
This month I'm doing a conference badge project, and next month is baby's first PCB, so I probably won't get back to myy sifive boards for awhile
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<rqou>
why is ROS full of stupid microservices?
<rqou>
why can't people use something simple, like a function call?
<awygle>
It's important to scale your robots to hundreds of independent nodes
<rqou>
no, it isn't
<awygle>
If your robot works, no one will renew your grant
<awygle>
Should I complicate the hardware or the software of this board? I'm either doing the board in kicad and the code in C or the board in altium and the code in rust...
<whitequark>
i vote for rust
<balrog>
I vote for kicad and rust
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<balrog>
though kicad + C is better than altium + anything because more FOSS
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<whitequark>
ehhhh i still use sublime text
<whitequark>
because no foss editor even comes close