ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
<andlabs> right, that's what I suspected
<andlabs> shrug
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<whitequark> ej5: any idea where the 89 in 89C51 naming scheme came from?
<whitequark> it seems to mean "integrated ROM" and my guesses are atmel or dallas originated it
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<Lord_Nightmare> i thought it came from the same jedec standard that says '3' is mask rom, '7' is eprom, '8' is eeprom and '9' is 'page-erase eeprom' better known as flash ROM
<Lord_Nightmare> so 89C51 uses flash for storage. i think?
<Lord_Nightmare> i think that '4' is serial rom, but i'm not sure about that
<Lord_Nightmare> and '1' might be ram
<Lord_Nightmare> again, i'm not sure about that
<ej5> i think Lord_Nightmare is right.
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<whitequark> oh wow that was a JEDEC standard?
<whitequark> i2c is 24 and spiflash is 25 so that seems to fit
<whitequark> some random parallel SRAM i have here is 62
<whitequark> so i'm guessing 4 is serial eeprom and 5 is page-erase eeprom
<Lord_Nightmare> you mean page-erase serial eeprom
<Lord_Nightmare> aka serial flash
<Lord_Nightmare> while 9 is parallel flash
<Lord_Nightmare> so really, 3 is parallel mask, 4 is serial eeprom, 5 is serial flash, 6 is parallel ?factory preprogrammed eprom? or OTPROM maybe?, 7 is parallel EPROM, 8 is parallel byte-erasable EEPROM, 9 is parallel page/bank-erasable EEPROM (AKA flash)
<Lord_Nightmare> I suspect based on the 8155 vs 8255 vs 8355 vs 8755 that 1 is parallel RAM and 2 is parallel IO
<Lord_Nightmare> since 8355 is io plus ROM
<Lord_Nightmare> and 8755 is io plus EPROM
<Lord_Nightmare> 8155 is ip plus RAM
<Lord_Nightmare> and 8255 is io only
<Lord_Nightmare> whitequark: i'm not sure its a jedec standard or not, but i strongly suspect it is
<Lord_Nightmare> since its pretty consistent that a '7' added to any device's name changes it into an eprom version vs a mask ROM version
<Lord_Nightmare> mc6805 vs ms68705 etc
<Lord_Nightmare> also the later flash based motorola/freescale mcus? mc68hc908
<Lord_Nightmare> the mask version being mc68hc08
<whitequark> right
<whitequark> interesting
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<whitequark> cr1901_modern: ispMACH 4A5 is a 5V CPLD family
<whitequark> that's still being produced, even, and they haven't set a date they'll discontinue it at
<whitequark> there are also gazillions of those in stock at every major distributor so i'm guessing it's a few years before we run out of those even when they do
<cr1901_modern> Interesting... well, it's an old device (2000-ish), but if they have no plans to discontinue it, that's pretty cool. There's an appnote for even designing a DRAM controller w/ a MACH CPLD: https://www.latticesemi.com/-/media/LatticeSemi/Documents/ApplicationNotes/AD/DesigningaPage-ModeDRAMControllerUsingMACHDevices.ashx?la=en
<whitequark> yep
<whitequark> I mean, 5V devices are all gonna be old.
<whitequark> ATF1500 is 1999
<whitequark> it might be fun to RE the ispMACH 4A5 bitstream btw
<whitequark> seems like something one could do in a few days
<whitequark> the BSDL file actually describes the complete programming mechanism
<cr1901_modern> What software does 4a5 use for pnr?
<whitequark> AFAIK there are three. ispLEVER, OrCAD and Diamond
<whitequark> hm, Diamond doesn't support these
<whitequark> so it seems like ispLEVER and OrCAD?
<whitequark> i'm not sure what is the OrCAD flow even
<whitequark> oh I see, ispLEVER uses Synplify
<whitequark> there's LSE too
<whitequark> they last updated it in 2018, nice
<cr1901_modern> LSE was the only way I ever got iCECube to finish routing something
<cr1901_modern> Anyways I'm gonna install it just so I have it on standby
<cr1901_modern> Oh, NOW I remember why 4A5 sounded familiar... someone built a 65816 homebrew design with an MMU (yes, a 6502 that supports virtual memory). They used a Mach 4A5 for it: https://www.pc65816.de/en/html/cplds.html
<andlabs> hmmm, now extrapolating this up to a transistorless digital computer
<whitequark> yes, that's the author's goal
<andlabs> nice
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