ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
<andlabs>
I just now got around to converting those nibs back into d64s and yes they match the d64s I ripped directly, so we're good on that count o.o
<andlabs>
and in the case of midi8+, is identical to a d64 conversion of the existing g64 file, so... yeah, ROM dump still needed
<andlabs>
cc Lord_Nightmare
<andlabs>
it turns out that all nib and g64 rips will not match because there are external environmental factors involving the flux and such
<andlabs>
which
<andlabs>
ugh
<andlabs>
that will make floppy preservation harder
<Lord_Nightmare>
yes
<Lord_Nightmare>
applesauce guys have figured some of this out
<Foone>
yeah. flux rips are basically analog, so you can't compare them exactly
<Lord_Nightmare>
i've heard its becoming harder to make applesauce devices, so if you've been putting off getting one...
<Foone>
I'm not sure why it'd become harder. the hardware is basically just a teensy and some power circuitry
<Lord_Nightmare>
first off they're a lot of work to put together, but the main problem i see is the female Dx19 connectors are getting hard to find
<Lord_Nightmare>
male connectors (like the bmow floppy thingy uses) are not a big deal since a few thousand new ones were manufactured 5 or so years ago
<Lord_Nightmare>
its the female ones which are now a problem
<Foone>
ahh, right.
<Foone>
at least they'd only affect the deluxe model
<Lord_Nightmare>
90+% of orders are the deluxe model, I think?
<Foone>
I should check if my local junk store has any. they have a bunch of old electronics supplies
<Lord_Nightmare>
dead/burst battery mac II and se/30 motherboards have one to steal
<Lord_Nightmare>
lithium is nasty shit though
<Lord_Nightmare>
if you're gonna desolder that, do it outside and wear gloves
<Lord_Nightmare>
but if the connector is contaminated with lithium you probably don't want to reuse it anyway
<Lord_Nightmare>
lithium is like the unstable element which never stops corroding
<Foone>
I still need to install a sync sensor onto my 3.5" drive. and maybe install a sensor on another Disk II, the one I modded partially broke
<Lord_Nightmare>
I modded two, one had the cable fail catastrophically due to a factory error when apple assembled the drive causing the cable to get worn through by the metal case
<Lord_Nightmare>
almost blew the applesauce to hell too
<Lord_Nightmare>
shorted gnd to phi3 i think
<Lord_Nightmare>
the second diskII i modded is a WEIRD diskII
<Lord_Nightmare>
its from late 84, which is after apple officially stopped making diskII drives, though dealers still had old stock
<Lord_Nightmare>
it has a POLARIZED cable with notches so it can't be inserted into the card or drive pcb backwards
<Lord_Nightmare>
and it uses an sa390 shugart casting for the metal drive frame, which apple had stopped using, swithcing to a custom ALPS-made casting in about 1982
<Lord_Nightmare>
it uses an apple analog board though, and an apple drive rpm control board
<Lord_Nightmare>
and an apple case
<Lord_Nightmare>
diskblitz thinks its a frankendrive made of parts of a 3rd party drive combined with the boards of an apple drive
<Lord_Nightmare>
and he may be right
<Lord_Nightmare>
i think its some 'project' an apple dealer threw together to fix a customer drive
<Lord_Nightmare>
the analog board though has 1984 dated chips on it
<Lord_Nightmare>
so it must have been made of some of the very last spare parts for diskII drives apple made
<Lord_Nightmare>
its POSSIBLE its a legit one-off drive
<Lord_Nightmare>
its also weird because the guard stop for the final track is the 'thin' sa390 type so the drive can hit track 40
<Lord_Nightmare>
some of the early sa390 diskII drives from the late 70s to 1981 can do this but most have the 'thick' stop and cannot
<Lord_Nightmare>
I don't know if the alps casting drives can hit track 40 at all, since its possible the hole in the metal for the head is slightly the wrong size, so even if there was no head rail stop the head would hit the inside of the casting. I don't know if this is really true, or true for all alps-casting drives
<Lord_Nightmare>
also diskblitz's instructions say that for an sa390 shugart casting drive, to install the sync sensor on the top of the casting instead of the bottom since there's no room down there on the shugart casting
<Lord_Nightmare>
I thought that was stupid and installed it on the bottom anyway with a healthy dose of creativity >:)
<Lord_Nightmare>
there is not much room there, but it DOES fit! you have to rotate the hall effect sensor 90 degrees from its original rotation, which is a bit tricky to do so the leads don't short together/touch each other, but its doable
<Foone>
interesting
<Lord_Nightmare>
I showed this to diskblitz, he was thinking of making a revision of the sync sensor pcb which would allow mounting the hall effect sensor in either orientation so no twisting is necessary
<cr1901_modern>
>the female Dx19 connectors are getting hard to find
<cr1901_modern>
The Amiga scene crowdfunded creating a mold for a similar DB17 connector that has been out of production since the early 90s. Now a single person has basically the worlds supply and gives them out as needed
<cr1901_modern>
Maybe... maybe not. Bitsavers/al kossow has a few disks he's attempting to save by capturing the analog signal directly from the head and doing a manual decode. That might be interesting to try w/ say, domesday86
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<Foone>
yeah, that'll be interesting to see if anything comes of that
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<andlabs>
what is the applesauce?
<andlabs>
something specific to the apple i/ii/iii?
<Foone>
yeah. alternative controller for apple II drives
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<cr1901_modern>
Foone: How's the discferret run going?
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<Foone>
just got PCBs in. I haven't yet ordered components or started soldering them on
<cr1901_modern>
Oh cool, good to know it's moving forward
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<andlabs>
in the meantime I'll just be using my ZoomFloppy on C64 disks
<andlabs>
when I get the chance and have the room...
<andlabs>
afk
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<andlabs>
also I may need the equviallent for MSX disks at osme point
<andlabs>
and PC-88
<andlabs>
I think I can use FluxEngine for the former
<andlabs>
but again, afk
<Foone>
fluxengine should work fine for both, they're both MFM.
<Foone>
MSX is actually almost completely DOS compatible
<Foone>
(the floppy disks are, I mean)
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<andlabs>
almost? I thought they were FAT12 filesystems
<andlabs>
wasn't sure how much further low-level they were compatible though
<andlabs>
actually doesn't the commodore 1571 handle MFM?
<cr1901_modern>
I wasn't aware the commodore machines used MFM
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<cr1901_modern>
I thought they used GCR and other fun tricks by virtue of having a full 6502 dedicated to reading/writing disks
<cr1901_modern>
>Unlike the 1541, which was limited to GCR formatting, the 1571 could read both GCR and MFM disk formats.
<cr1901_modern>
TIL
<Lord_Nightmare>
Foone: are you using the stock original discferret design, or did you make any substitutions/etc for replacing EOL parts?
<Lord_Nightmare>
(the one change i'd make is replacing the usb host mcu with an fx2 or fx3)
<Lord_Nightmare>
(and doubling the amount of sram)
<Lord_Nightmare>
(or hell, given how cheap they are, use an stm32)
<Sarayan>
if you want to pick up something diskferret-equivalent nowadays, pick up a glasgow
<Lord_Nightmare>
I'm on the order list for one
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<andlabs>
cr1901_modern: yes, because they wanted to ship CP/M with the C127 AND let it read Osborne and Kaypro II/IV disks
<andlabs>
C128
<Foone>
Lord_Nightmare: stock. we thought about doing some major redesign to make it easier to solder but then gave up and went with stock, because we could never get the redesign started.