ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
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<TD-Linux>
fwiw I have yet to wear down an ENIG edge connector
<TD-Linux>
that said I'd still opt for hard gold for a game connector or something that I'd expect to be swapped frequently
<TD-Linux>
it would be interesting to compare HASL to ENIG for cheap edge connectors. I half suspect HASL might last longer
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<ValleyBell>
Hi samlittlewood! Thanks a lot for getting the CM-32P back then! I've tried to make good use of it and I've been working on basic CM-32P emulation in MAME. (I still need to finish the PCM playback code though.)
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<Lord_Nightmare>
Foone: are you interested in helping work on a driver for the action replay card in MAME? that would probably tell us a lot about how the ROM and ram work from the perspective of the rom-bios and tsr code
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<balrog>
Foone: 62 laserdiscs!?
<cr1901_modern>
balrog: There was a Craiglist's ad in his area for someone selling off their LD collection
<cr1901_modern>
He only wanted a TMBG disc, but I guess he negotiated a deal
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<Foone>
yeah. someone in my area was selling a collection of 62 laserdiscs, and when I emailed them to ask if they'd sell me just one of them, they said that they follow me on twitter, and just offered them for free
<Foone>
Lord_Nightmare: maybe? I'm primarily focused on documenting it so that'd be a later thing but it's certainly an option I'm interested in looking at
<balrog>
Foone: ooh nice
<balrog>
any of them rare/unique enough that they should be imaged with a domesday duplicator?
<Sarayan>
Foone: now that's a good use of celebrity :-)
<balrog>
Foone: putting together a skeleton MAME driver is a good part of permanently documenting a device :)
<balrog>
(and is relatively trivial)
<Foone>
I don't think so? I think they're all pretty common things. I mean, the Toy Story one has some quality versions of their early shorts, and one is the highest quality copy they ever released uncensored, but it appears it's already been ripped
<Foone>
plus I don't want Disney mad at me
<Foone>
in any case getting a Domesday duplicator (or two: I definitely want one for that VHS side project they're working on) is on my todo list, and then I'll just rip all my laserdiscs anyway
<Foone>
maybe I can get Fancy and domesdayify my LD-W1 4-sided player. that'd be sweet
<Sarayan>
you want a DD because you want all existing dumpers of anything anyway
<Foone>
correct
<Sarayan>
4-sided player?
<Foone>
it takes two discs, and can play top of 1, bottom of 1, top of 2, bottom of 2
<Sarayan>
cute
<Sarayan>
a full movie without large interruptions
<balrog>
there's already ripped and already ripped via domesday duplicator :)
<balrog>
Foone: USB2ISA???
<balrog>
I just ordered a SATA SSD and a SATA to IDE adapter to "upgrade" a Windows XP computer at work that's being used for an AFM
<balrog>
latest supported OS is Windows XP, they don't want to shell out the $$$ for a new controller, they aren't experienced enough to build their own, the controller relies on a non-PnP ISA card
<balrog>
I feel like a USB2ISA product that worked with VM software would sell more than a few devices ;)
<Foone>
I can't really recommend it at this point. it has some major problems
<balrog>
yeah it's not expensive... but how fiddly is it?
<balrog>
"not expensive" being relative, $150 is at the low end for industrial control stuff
<Foone>
well... I wasn't able to get it to work on windows 10 64bit, at all. their drivers aren't signed, and even when switching into unsigned mode, it simply didn't work
<Foone>
I was able to get it to work on 64bit linux, but ran into issues where it only sometimes will connect at all, and somehow manages to get it so that a reboot is required before you can get it functioning again?
<Foone>
it's also got a very electrically noisy power supply and it's running the ISA bus at the wrong speeds: both clocks are at 12mhz
<balrog>
uhh
<Lord_Nightmare>
the clocks thing is really fucked
<Lord_Nightmare>
that's a very stupid design flaw
<Foone>
so if you're planning to only use it on linux, and it's something that doesn't care about noisy power or correct ISA clocks, it may be a good option
<balrog>
does windows 10 even support ISA at all?
<Foone>
also their documentation on how to power it is simply wrong. it doesn't work how they say it does
<Lord_Nightmare>
and if the thing is all fpga driven inside, manually 'fixing' the clocks, unless you use a PLL from the original 12mhz source to generate 8/16mhz isn't gonna work well, and even then
<balrog>
(I couldn't find a definite answer as to whether Windows post-XP supports ISA)
<balrog>
Lord_Nightmare: I don't expect it to be FPGA driven
<balrog>
Foone: what chips are on it?
<Foone>
it is an FPGA
<Lord_Nightmare>
i'm almost sure win 7 32bit does support it, but not 100% sure
<Lord_Nightmare>
foone maybe they ran out of on-fpga plls
<balrog>
Lord_Nightmare: perhaps they only dropped non-PnP ISA
<Foone>
it's an FPGA and a few ram chips and that's about it
<Lord_Nightmare>
only newer fpgas have multiple pll lines
<Lord_Nightmare>
they still should have used an external pll to generate the clocks
<balrog>
Foone: what FPGA? most FPGAs don't have USB
<Foone>
I asked them about the frequency thing, and their response was "adjust your design so that it doesn't need [the right clocks]"
<balrog>
UH
<Foone>
I do not have it here, but I should have a picture. give me a second to dig through that
<Lord_Nightmare>
yeah that's not gona fly
<Lord_Nightmare>
*gonna
<balrog>
was ISA clock ever standardized?
<Lord_Nightmare>
the cga clock is standardized
<Foone>
yes. one of them was always 14.9mhz, the other was 4 or 8mhz, although occasionally this would be a bit off
<Lord_Nightmare>
14.318MHz
<Lord_Nightmare>
which is 3.579545 * 4
<Lord_Nightmare>
is the cga clock
<Lord_Nightmare>
and it always MUST be that
<Lord_Nightmare>
the other clock varied a bit, depending on the cpu speed, i think especually in the 286 era
<Foone>
ok, the FPGA is a CY7C68013A-128AXC
<balrog>
that's not an FPGA
<Lord_Nightmare>
i think the ibm AT had it at one speed for 12mhz and maybe another for 16mhz systems, and the ibm XT/286 (a weird AT with lower memory wait states and some other oddball things) may use yet another different speed
<balrog>
that's a cypress fx2
<Foone>
oh, right! that's an 8051
<balrog>
LOL not exactly
<balrog>
it has some programmable logic
<Foone>
well, Cypress is calling it an "enhanced 8051"
<Lord_Nightmare>
but by and large most isa systems standardized one speed (8mhz maybe?)
<balrog>
Foone: did I tell you that Adaptec made a USB2.0 to SCSI adapter based on the fx2?
<Lord_Nightmare>
for the 'other' clock
<balrog>
the USB2Xchange
<balrog>
good luck getting one for less than $150
<Lord_Nightmare>
is that the thing people charge $300 for on ebay for jaz drive data recovery?
<balrog>
Lord_Nightmare: yes
<Foone>
yeah. usb to SCSI adapters are hard to find in my experience
<balrog>
I wouldn't mind if someone got one and traced it, since the firmware isn't even onboard
<Foone>
it's way easier to just set up an old PCI system and use that
<balrog>
and is loaded by the driver
<balrog>
I have two USB 1.1 to SCSI adapters
<balrog>
they work but are AWFULLY SLOW
<Lord_Nightmare>
i have a scsi jaz drive here
<Foone>
although I have a PCI-e SCSI card, from adaptec. Fun fact: Adaptec decided to discontinue making windows drivers several years ago.
<Lord_Nightmare>
someone on the vcf-ma list said they have some jaz carts to recover
<Foone>
I did not know this when I bought it. I was not happy
<Lord_Nightmare>
so i might try that
<balrog>
:/
<balrog>
which card?
<Foone>
the best you can do is hack one of the 64bit windows 7 drivers to work in windows 10, unsigned
<Foone>
I don't have it handy so I have no idea.
<Lord_Nightmare>
i think i can use the g4mdd's scsi card with the jaz drive and just ddrescue the jaz carts to a usb stick
<Lord_Nightmare>
its up to the user to figure out how to mount those and get the data off
<balrog>
usually 64bit windows 7 drivers "just work" in windows 10, so they must have been doing something screwy.
<Foone>
I think it required modification to work in 10 because that specific card never got a windows 7 driver release, either
<Foone>
but an earlier card's driver worked fine if you hacked the INF
<Foone>
but hacking the INF made windows 10 not accept it as signed. or possibly they never signed it at all? I can't recall
<balrog>
whitequark: another FX2 based device where and FX2 is probably inappropriate, LOL
<balrog>
Foone: aaah okay
<balrog>
there are certain Adaptec cards that have VERY poor driver support
<balrog>
and certain that are fine
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<balrog>
(I pinged whitequark because glasgow is based on an fx2 + fpga)
<Foone>
oh, is it? neat
<balrog>
the fx2 has an 8051 for control and some programmable logic; the 8051 is used to set things up but the communication part is done using the logic
<Foone>
I know of the project, I'm on the list to get one, I just didn't look into how it's implemented
<Foone>
I should get a glasgow PCB made and try to solder it once I get money for tools and components again, since I've already gone past the point of having to learn to do surface-mount soldering
<balrog>
do you have a hot-air station of any sort?
<balrog>
I'm not sure what's the recommended low-end station these days
<Foone>
no, but that's one of the tools I need to buy once I have money
<balrog>
I think I paid around $250 for the Aoyue that I have
<Foone>
I haven't needed one because I've avoided surface mount stuff but then the stupid discferret project came along and WHELP GUESS I GOTTA LEARN TO SURFACE MOUNT
<balrog>
people tell me that surface mount is easier in some cases
<balrog>
because you can use paste and a toaster oven for reflow
<balrog>
but then you run into crap like QFN footprints with center pad
<Foone>
I tried to desolder one of those recently, and I very much did not have the right tools. it ended badly.
<balrog>
yup
<balrog>
for those you usually also want a preheater
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<balrog>
Foone: how would a (hypothetical) USB ISA bridge handle interrupts?
<balrog>
(and real time)
<balrog>
could you get away using isochronous mode? someone more familiar with USB (like whitequark) probably could answer :)
<Foone>
theirs does! although it's not really documented in the free dev kit, so I can't be sure exactly how it works
<Foone>
it apparently just has a function you call to ask if there have been any IRQs recently
<balrog>
oh. LOL
<balrog>
that... doesn't really work for real time
<Foone>
I forgot to mention: they have two SDKs: a free one that's minimal, and a better one that you have to pay extra to get
<Foone>
I think it's 500$?
<balrog>
ouch
<balrog>
no thanks :)
<Foone>
yeah. I'd consider it if their hardware actually worked, but I'm definitely not paying for an SDK for hardware that stinks