ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
<andlabs> also earlier I somehow wound up on a YJA search page for...already ended items
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<andlabs> did the Y8950 have an official OPLx designation?
<cr1901_modern> Looks like it's an original OPL variant?
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<cr1901_modern> Thinking about it more... does anyone know any machines where the original OPL (not OPL2) was used?
<natarii> PCs?
<protosphere> MSX-AUDIO was OPL-based I think
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<cr1901_modern> I thought Adlib was always OPL2
<cr1901_modern> protosphere: Ack, I'll look into that. I guess the Master System add-on also counts
<protosphere> cr1901_modern: Which Master System addon were you thinking of? I know there's one using the OPLL
<protosphere> oh, and MSX-AUDIO uses the Y8950. I didn't see that mentioned before
<cr1901_modern> Yea, the OPLL one is what I'm thinking
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<natarii> there were a few arcade boards that were original OPL for sure
<andlabs> I bought a Japense version of the FM Music Macro with manual, so when it comes I'll be able to do a proper demonstration of that SAY command assuming there is a demo program
<andlabs> [02:08:41] <cr1901_modern>protosphere: Ack, I'll look into that. I guess the Master System add-on also counts
<andlabs> this was the chip I was asking about last night btw
<andlabs> but I was interested if it had an OPLx name
<andlabs> it seems like the answer is no
<andlabs> Master System is YM2413
<andlabs> and yes, the SFX Sound Expander also has an original OPL
<andlabs> it's why clones can get away with using an OPL2 or 3
<andlabs> [03:41:54] <natarii>there were a few arcade boards that were original OPL for sure
<andlabs> and amazingly SNK used the MSX-AUDIO chip somehow
<andlabs> there are more SNK arcade game VGMs on vgmrips.net than there are MSX-AUDIO
<andlabs> (even though Compile used the MSX-AUDIO extensively)
<andlabs> the SFX Sound Expander is an example of profound incompetence
<ValleyBell> Most people just rip PSG and OPLL MSX music.
<andlabs> hey let's sell this thing for $waytoomuch, make it only work with software that ALSO costs $waytoomuch, **AND** not let any other company use it for their own software
<andlabs> our software not very good or useful? too bad
<andlabs> I have a copy of the SFX Sound Studio software on tape I still need to rip because it seems no one has done it yet
<andlabs> if *it* sucks, then back in 1984 you were SOL
<andlabs> because that was the ONLY composing osftware for the thing
<andlabs> by the way the SFX series had a lot of hardware components in it too
<andlabs> each of them sold separately and cost $waytoomuch
<andlabs> in the end they released a bundle in the UK (where the company called SFX, really Music Sales Ltd. was headquartered) but it was both too little too late and also $waytoomuch
<andlabs> and also released a clone of Sight and Sound's Incredible Musical Keyboard in the UK before Sight and Sound could release the real thing there
<andlabs> they sued
<andlabs> I am going to guess this is why Sight and Sound mysteirously disappeared despite being somewhat popular in the early C64 days
<andlabs> *they sued Commodore
<andlabs> of course they also made an Incredible Musical Keyboard clone that was compatible with the C128 that Sight and Sound never did
<andlabs> interestingly for this conversation, Music Sales Ltd. would survive and make MSX music software for Philips
<andlabs> there's also a really rare SFX-branded version of the Sound Expander
<andlabs> oh and if only other companies learned from Commodore's mistakes
<andlabs> but oh no
<andlabs> I have a nearly complete pack (just missing either a manual or a registration card or both for one specific piece of software, I forget which) of also undumped rare C64 hardware that is basically a repeat of the same mistake, with potentially even worse software
<andlabs> I'd have dumped it all by now but I've somehow lost the cable I need to connect my ZoomFloppy to my computer...
<andlabs> there are way way way too many USB connector types
<andlabs> but Sequential wins the Dumb Companies award
<andlabs> not only do they make the thing I am referring to above that I have
<andlabs> but they also released the Sequential MAX
<andlabs> a full sized synthesizer
<andlabs> the ONLY front panel controls are preset sleections
<andlabs> in order to do anything else with the synth other than play it using those preset voices, including you know, twiddling the knobs, you needed to connect it to a C64
<andlabs> this pissed off pro musicians, and failed at the consumer market
<andlabs> Dave Smith, founder of Sequential, claims their flailing floundering attempt at computer hardware was the reason the comapny that reovlutionized the industry on multiple occasions and made the enduring Prophet-5 went bankrupt in 1987
<andlabs> they're back now and the website doesn't even *mention* any of these products
<andlabs> it only talks about the ability to connect some of their pro sequencers to a computer
<andlabs> and i do mean revolutionized the industry on multiple occasions
<andlabs> in fact, they had two particular innovations of note
<andlabs> the Prophet-5 was the first synthesizer to be CPU controlled — digital synthesizers would be functionally impossible without this change
<andlabs> they also developed a DIN-based digital communication method for connecting their Six-Trak sequencer and one of their lesser known synthesizers together and after being annoyed by a similar but extremely overcomplicated thing that Oberheimer proposed, the founder of Roland decided to adapt Sequential's design into what we now call MIDI
<Foone> https://twitter.com/Foone/status/968005964845654016 this is all I have to say about that
<cr1901_modern> >it only talks about the ability to connect some of their pro sequencers to a computer
<cr1901_modern> I would hope they mention the Prophet-6 as well
<cr1901_modern> but that's my bias speaking- that would be the (non FM) synth of choice I buy if I had a few spare organs to sell
<cr1901_modern> I'll pass
<ValleyBell> Anyone want to listen to CM-64 music? http://62.224.252.234:8010/ [Icecast page] / http://62.224.252.234:8010/stream.ogg [direct link]
* whitequark listens
<doppler> ditto
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<ValleyBell> Thanks for listening!
<andlabs> [12:06:47] <cr1901_modern>I would hope they mention the Prophet-6 as well
<andlabs> the Prophet-6 is not on this list... because it's actually a product of the *new* Sequential, not the old one
<andlabs> you can buy it for a cool... $2700 for the keyboard version and $2100 for the keyboardless version
<andlabs> though not from their website for some reason; gotta get it through a retailer
<andlabs> if you want the prophet sound for cheap you may as well get one of the new Behringer modules
<andlabs> I forget the name
<andlabs> hmm I can't find it right now but they sell a clone of the Pro-One creatively called the Pro-1
<andlabs> oh apparently a proper Prophet-5 clone is in development
<andlabs> the new ones I was thinking of are all Moog clones
<andlabs> ALSO
<andlabs> [12:11:25] <cr1901_modern>So if I want an original OPL chip,
<andlabs> actually this list of chips I have doesn't list what the OPL was used in either as far as Yamaha keyboards are concerned, hm
<andlabs> but the OPL2 is in the PSR-11, PSR-12, PSR-31, PSR-32, PSS-460, PSS-470, PSS-560, PSS-570
<andlabs> and the YM2413 OPLL in PSR-6, PSS-140, PSS-170, PSS-270
<andlabs> YM2420 OPLL-2 in PSS-140, SHS-10
<andlabs> YM2423 OPLL-X in FM Melody Maker (for Atari ST), Philips PMC100
<andlabs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkwLYf3MXbE Philips PMC100, which is ALSO a product of Music Sales Ltd.
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<l_oliveira> Music Sales did develop the Philips Music Module for the MSX in Netherlands (NMS-1205)