<chewitt>
wangtao@cyxtech.com <= on their FCC declaration
<chewitt>
the dtb that I made the other night deliberately makes no attempt at wifi/bt
<chewitt>
having done a bit more research, I don't think mt7668 is included in the current mt76x8 support in the kernel
<chewitt>
it looks like an ethernet chip
<chewitt>
however the BT device looks like it has upstream support
<chewitt>
so that's the first target to get working
<buzzmarshall>
hi there chewitt
<chewitt>
btw, I will email ^ that address
<chewitt>
email from @kodi.tv emails often gets a result when @gmail.com is ignored :)
<chewitt>
@buzzmarshall hi
<buzzmarshall>
since we had our git chat i've gone ahead and started putting stuff together and been building the LE masters on all the gx's and then earlier built another working branch around your amlogic-masters
<buzzmarshall>
i didn't say any mt7668 stuff it it yet
<buzzmarshall>
once again thanx for the git help
<buzzmarshall>
really helped clear up some of the git mud from a understanding point
<buzzmarshall>
so now i got a master of mine following the le master and a working branch for me to build ontop of your amlogic-master
<buzzmarshall>
one quick question regarding the build system
<buzzmarshall>
is there easy way for me to confine say the amlgx project to just the normal box file and not do the others
<buzzmarshall>
or do i need to hack the scripts to do that for now
<buzzmarshall>
before goind down that road i just thought i would ask
<buzzmarshall>
currently i just want to build for the s912 and older s905
<buzzmarshall>
on the boxs
<buzzmarshall>
the older way used to let me tailor that by excluding things in the main options file for the project
<buzzmarshall>
but i don't see it like that anymore
<buzzmarshall>
just trying to reduce time and space by eliminating what i am not currently working on, otherwise i would just leave things as is
<chewitt>
edit scripts/uboot_helper
<chewitt>
#comment out the AMLGX/AMLG12 devices that you don't want UBOOT_SYSTEM images for
<buzzmarshall>
k... ya i've been kinda eyeing that but then seen you responding to emOne so figured i'd bug ya
<buzzmarshall>
thnx
<chewitt>
then "PROJECT=Amlogic DEVICE=AMLGX ARCh=arm make image" will only give you the 'box' image and .tar update
<buzzmarshall>
that would be great as thats all i really want right now as i go about
<buzzmarshall>
i seen your aml-master switched over to kwiboo's kodi
<buzzmarshall>
just out of curiousity whats the advantage
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<emOne>
buzzmarshall: hello
<buzzmarshall>
hey there
<emOne>
buzzmarshall: I think I have an idea how to get the wifi to work
<emOne>
afaik the wifi driver is just a .ko
<chewitt>
and .. no you cannot just copy it from the 4.9 Android kernel :)
<buzzmarshall>
go ahead... i'm on a real slow connection here at work as the internet isn't allowed so i connected thru one of the printers front ends
<chewitt>
the driver needs to be compiled to match the running kernel
<buzzmarshall>
yes... what chewitt is saying is right if your just thinking about trying to copy the libs
<buzzmarshall>
morning chewitt
<chewitt>
evening..
<buzzmarshall>
sorry morning here...keep forgetting you guys are on the other side of the pond
<buzzmarshall>
lol
<emOne>
chewitt: so could I use a 4.9 kernel?
<emOne>
like in CE?
<emOne>
I know you guys hate each other,,, but seriously though . Would that work?
<buzzmarshall>
as far as i know the other distro's don't have that mediatek driver iether
<chewitt>
I found one source for the driver, but didn't have time to look more
<chewitt>
the BT driver appears to be upstream
<emOne>
could you link me chewitt?
<chewitt>
the wireless side appears to be missing
<chewitt>
I'm not on the laptop that I made notes on .. which is in a different country
<chewitt>
I move around a lot
<emOne>
I tested your code for BT
<emOne>
but it didn't work
<emOne>
I don't know why
<chewitt>
I haven't given you any code to test BT .. so not sure how you did that ?
<emOne>
you sent me a dtb for the box
<emOne>
I used it with balbes image
<chewitt>
the cyxtech-a95xf3-air dtb deliberately has no nodes for the BT/Wifi stuff
<emOne>
and the files that you asked me to search for were found on the image
<emOne>
chewitt: I am confused. what exactly was I testing?
<chewitt>
the sei610 is a device with a load of extra hardware on-board
<chewitt>
so first step was to get a 'clean' dtb that's closer to the actual hardware on your board
<emOne>
fair enough
<chewitt>
the good news is/was .. it booted and looked okay, so I didn't fcuk that bit up
<emOne>
you asked me to run the following command "find / -name mt7668pr2h.bin"
<chewitt>
and if you swapped the SYSTEM file for the one in my image .. that explains the firmware being found
<chewitt>
the firmware won't magically load without device-tree nodes and drivers
<chewitt>
the documentation for the BT device gives examples but they're not a direct copy/paste
<chewitt>
I need to figure out some things .. or more likely ask people who know what they're doing to help
<chewitt>
the wifi chip needs drivers .. but that's adding more out-of-tree crap
<emOne>
I didn't swap the system file
<chewitt>
I'm not a fan of out-of-tree wifi drivers
<emOne>
ys
<emOne>
who is
<chewitt>
if you didn't swap, Oleg picked the right commits from my branch so the BT firmware is included, which is fine
<emOne>
cool
<emOne>
so is everything correct?
<chewitt>
Yes/No
<emOne>
hehe
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<chewitt>
What's done is correct. What's not done .. is not done
<emOne>
fair enough
<emOne>
I am dissapointed that I can't just use the .ko file
<emOne>
is it not possible to reverse engineer or decompile the .ko file?
<buzzmarshall>
its posible but a lot of work
<buzzmarshall>
don't mind me as i am just following along to see what chewitt was saying
<emOne>
heh
<emOne>
lol
<emOne>
:D
<buzzmarshall>
just trying to figure what you guys have and don't have
<emOne>
seriously though if the .ko file is compatible with the android 4.9 kernel... couldn't I just use CE?
<emOne>
(despite the fact that you all hate it)
<emOne>
or rather, theoretically speaking
<buzzmarshall>
libs are compiled and tied to other system things
<emOne>
that sounds like it is a brick wall
<emOne>
a cul de sac
<buzzmarshall>
swapping libs isnot as easy as it seems especially moving between different os's and then revisions these days
<emOne>
a carrot dangling infront of our faces that we cannot reach
<emOne>
hmm
<emOne>
;( ;( ;(M
<emOne>
I thought we were getting close to solving the case
<buzzmarshall>
if it was then the way the hybris wrapper was working would have made it easier to move the vendors bsp's forward to newer kernels along time ago
<chewitt>
Android kernel is not equal to Linux kernel
<chewitt>
so no, you cannot copy
<emOne>
CE uses the android kernel no?
<chewitt>
no, they use a Linux kernel
<emOne>
oh
<chewitt>
same sources
<chewitt>
different compilation
<emOne>
fair enough
<emOne>
no source = no fun
<emOne>
I am surprised how goddamn awful google is at finding anything these days
<emOne>
I typed the name of the .ko into google. Lo and behold absolutely no results whatsoever
<emOne>
and I am sure the file is on a server somewhere that is exposed to the www
<buzzmarshall>
chewitt... what kernel are you seeing with any of the 7668 stuff mentioned it
<buzzmarshall>
ive not looked any more forward then what you've got in your amlogic-master branch
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<buzzmarshall>
looking for files is sometimes better using ftp and a good engine
<emOne>
buzzmarshall: chewitt: so is this basically the reason why CE is using an old kernel ?
<emOne>
because they are just taking a bunch of compiled blobs
<emOne>
that don't work with anything else because they didn't compile it themselves
<emOne>
I think I finally understand
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<buzzmarshall>
ya...kinda... thats what i was saying to you when we 1st started talking a bit ago... LE is trying to stick and move forward using mainstream
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<buzzmarshall>
the other distro's are just trying to maintain using the older existing stuff which in some cases is still based on Amlogic's bsp support
<psymin>
Used libreelec from git (9.8 I think?) on an rpi4 over the weekend. Lots of screen tearing. I don't recall if there was tearing with 9.2 on rpi4 or not.
<buzzmarshall>
no rpi4 here so i can't say much but i think alot of thats still kinda bleeding edge stuff so that wouldn't surprise me
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<vpeter>
CE is using only few required blobs? Not bunch?
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<buzzmarshall>
your probably right about that... its been awhile now since i looked that build but had thought there weren't using as many as it was, and being their working more with HK and Beelink guys was under the impression they were moving more away from blobs then what they really had to
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<spycat`>
lol
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<emOne>
buzzmarshall: o/
<emOne>
hello
<emOne>
I came to the bitter realisation that the state of open source software has changed
<psymin>
emOne, how so?
<emOne>
and I now totally see the position of LE
<emOne>
psymin: hello
<psymin>
hoedy
<psymin>
howdy*
<emOne>
it isn't the same any more
<emOne>
and I don't even mean the fact that Microsoft has bought github
<emOne>
psymin when looking at the arm manufacturers you will soon realise that nobody publishes any source code for their devices anymore
<emOne>
there used to be a time when it was seen as advantageous for a company to publish the source code
<emOne>
the company would put out their device drivers which would drive their sales and would give them the support of the community and other companies
<emOne>
the idea was that you would get free bug fixes and security fixes from others who also use your code
<emOne>
psymin: I am not sure why it is the way it is with arm device manufacturers but not many seem to be publishing the source code for their drivers
<buzzmarshall>
hi there... home now... cash-ola bro
<emOne>
or at the very least company would publish their closed source drivers for as many platforms as possible
<buzzmarshall>
makes the world turn
<buzzmarshall>
lol
<buzzmarshall>
i get what your saying and as a hacker hate corporations by nature
<emOne>
surely if a company publishes its drivers for a device or chip they will get more orders
<emOne>
more orders = more cash-ola
<emOne>
or no?
<buzzmarshall>
but to be honest we need to step back and take a look at the big picture when it comes to these boxes
<buzzmarshall>
where trying to take over a device and do what WE want even tho its not what the makers intended
<buzzmarshall>
so its kinda ya gotta do it your self
<emOne>
The chip manufacturers did sell the chips to the people who put together these boxes
<buzzmarshall>
and even tho the SoC makers and box factories are seeing a extra revenue chain from the linux users its not something they originally intended
<emOne>
was it intended for phones?
<emOne>
and routers?
<emOne>
and other IoT stuff?
<buzzmarshall>
arm ip cores are in everything these days
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<buzzmarshall>
in the old days things like cpu's were the domain of intel and amd and old cyrex
<buzzmarshall>
not anymore in the embedded markets
<buzzmarshall>
arm cores are just synthesised cores that anyone can either buy or licence and implement in hardware on their own
<buzzmarshall>
so companies see that as theirs and not all are the same when it comes to sharing
<buzzmarshall>
don't get me wrong as i understand and agree with ya but i am also a realist and understand money rules and as long someones making a ton they don't want to give up the keys to the coffee machine
<buzzmarshall>
but hey if they weren't like that then i wouldn't have ever bothered wasting years taking apart things not meant to be
<buzzmarshall>
its fun and a good hobby that helps one develope skill sets not taught very much outside specialty stuff
<emOne>
I dont have a lot of money,,, but what I do have is a certain set of skills
<emOne>
NARF
<psymin>
emOne, you mentioned the position of LE regarding this topic, what is that position?
<buzzmarshall>
your drivers tho will come its just gonna take some time to figure a couple of things out and which kernel to look at doing so with
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<emOne>
the way I interpret it is that LE wants to force the hand of the manufacturers of the chips and devices
<buzzmarshall>
normally i would just hardcode things as i have for years but recently decided to follow LE example and try to learn more a bout opensources
<emOne>
^
<emOne>
LE recognises that the industry is on a backward path
<buzzmarshall>
i don't think LE is really trying to force anything
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<buzzmarshall>
its more like LE is trying to follow the flow of what Linux and Kodi and alot of other opensource stuff is doing
<emOne>
I think if everybody demanded new drivers for new kernels the manufacturers would have to deliver them
<emOne>
following the flow would be to stick to kernel version 4.9
<emOne>
because that is what everyone else is doing
<emOne>
hell, it would be to stick to the android os
<buzzmarshall>
up till now the whole box industry has kinda been like the old west with everyone doing things in their own ways based on what little the soc makers would tell anyone
<emOne>
even though none of us like anroid
<buzzmarshall>
hey i agree with that but the only wind i see big enough to blow that hard is one way
<buzzmarshall>
the end users
<emOne>
us being the enthusiasts, techies and hackers ( in the classic meaning of the word)
<buzzmarshall>
as long as people buy their crap they will carry on like that
<buzzmarshall>
say for a minute
<emOne>
end users have no idea what a kernel is
<buzzmarshall>
that half the box purchasers stopped buying and said they specifically wanted linux rather then android
<emOne>
ahh ok I see
<buzzmarshall>
then the makers if they percieve enough market loss would maybe rethink
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<emOne>
I have so much respect for what the raspberry pi guys did for the community <3
<buzzmarshall>
but as long as people go ape-shit listening to all the bullshit dealers and the whole my box is the best crap
<buzzmarshall>
they just keep enabling the makers
<buzzmarshall>
as i said money rules
<emOne>
agreed
<buzzmarshall>
cut their revenue streams then change will happen
<emOne>
no one likes sanctions
<emOne>
sanctions don't bring about change for those who impose the sanctions
<buzzmarshall>
the makers see linux on the device as a perk with little to no investment on their part
<buzzmarshall>
its the people around here and others that are the ones putting in the time and resources to do all the work
<emOne>
and that is why these communities are amazing
<buzzmarshall>
ya for sure
<emOne>
would you be surprised if the iphone came about because of an open source community?
<emOne>
personally I wouldn't
<buzzmarshall>
if it wasn't for most of these types and their hobby's or whatever drives their interest not much would be going
<emOne>
and a lot of people have ripped off open source communites
<emOne>
agree
<emOne>
agreed
<buzzmarshall>
as a apple guy from the git go i understand their whole end-to-end dev thing which tends to lock others out
<buzzmarshall>
so from that point anyone paying big bucks is better assured to get what apple promises
<buzzmarshall>
as compared to say intel where any numbnuts can create hardware or software without any concern for support
<buzzmarshall>
so its kinda i see both sides
<emOne>
I actually like the model of apple. The software IS open source software under the hood but they do have support from commercial software devs and vendors
<emOne>
it is a hybrid
<buzzmarshall>
i just am more of the mentality to migrate to something to bust cause thats my entertainment
<buzzmarshall>
anyone can bust a intel based machine
<buzzmarshall>
theres no secrets in it
<emOne>
psymin: I hope we are not putting you to sleep again
<buzzmarshall>
in the tho its about what the company is trying to sell
<emOne>
I hope you will also chime in :)
<buzzmarshall>
lol ya
<emOne>
it is about money yes ofc
<psymin>
emOne, so far so good :)
<buzzmarshall>
haha
<psymin>
I tend to agree with RMS on topics like this. Maybe not as extreme :)
<emOne>
the only thing I don't understand is what a company has to lose if they publish their drivers for say the wifi chip .
<emOne>
RMS?
<psymin>
Richard Stallman
<emOne>
What is his opinion?
<buzzmarshall>
aw... the old bsd vs gnu
<emOne>
ohh he is the gnu guy that wasnt recognised by Linus?
<emOne>
for a long time
<emOne>
psymin: yes I know who you mean. His name escaped me for a second
<psymin>
his opinions are verbose
<emOne>
all I know is that he is a pretty cool dude
<buzzmarshall>
he is one of the driving forces behind open source and the gnu tools
<buzzmarshall>
he believes in basically what your saying in that all software should have sources so people can inspect and see
<buzzmarshall>
back in the old days of linux things were more like bsd licenced where source code is something the creators can keep
<buzzmarshall>
then linuz and things like slackware started moving and the gnu project took off
<emOne>
hence the creation of the alternative GNU tools, the linux kernel and the gnu license
<buzzmarshall>
the gnu project was basically the beginning of the linux tools we use to compile
<emOne>
yes
<psymin>
nit picking: GNU was before Linux
<emOne>
yep
<emOne>
he had no kernel but ported all the main unix tools afaik
<emOne>
which at the time was the main chunk of the OS
<buzzmarshall>
the older unix's were propriatary
<emOne>
as far as I understand
<buzzmarshall>
things like at&t and bell labs
<emOne>
wasn't there an anti monopoly sanction against one of the telco companies to release the source code for unix?
<buzzmarshall>
linus bascally created a unix like kernel but techinically it never passed the unix demands so it grew from there
<buzzmarshall>
back then big corps ran all kinds of unix systems as there a few
<emOne>
to be fair, I don't think that all software should have its source code published. Everyone is allowed to do what they want with their IP
<buzzmarshall>
i think of it like this
<emOne>
but sometimes code is complimentary to another service that brings in the real bucks
<emOne>
go on buzzmarshall
<buzzmarshall>
cookings not my thing but imagine someone that trains for years to learn to be a great cook and then eventually opens his own very expensive restaraunt
<emOne>
go on
<buzzmarshall>
its all based on his stuff and people come from miles to have it
<buzzmarshall>
now hes not gonna just give his secrets away
<buzzmarshall>
he may decide to take on some apprentices and train them for years but
<buzzmarshall>
basically its kept close to his chest
<buzzmarshall>
i look at all this software stuff kinda the same way
<buzzmarshall>
i get both sides to the arguement
<buzzmarshall>
its just hard to know which side to apply till you look at the particulars of what it is
<buzzmarshall>
take arm as a example
<buzzmarshall>
years ago when intel developed their cpus
<buzzmarshall>
they published the op code set to it and let people go from there
<emOne>
building cars is not my thing
<buzzmarshall>
now with the smaller devices tho the manufacturing methods have changed allowing for much smaller chips
<emOne>
but imagine someone who invented the wheels
<buzzmarshall>
arm decided to rather then make chips
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<psymin>
now I'm hungry :P
<buzzmarshall>
they created ip cores which is basically a synthesized cpu meant to be implemented by others at the hardware level
<emOne>
hahaha psymin
<buzzmarshall>
actually me to
<buzzmarshall>
anyways to make a long story short
<emOne>
so why are there no problems with people releasing device drivers on x86?
<buzzmarshall>
arm doesn't want to give out to much as their revenue streams are based on that
<emOne>
and I don't mean just the gpu because that is part of the soc in the world of arm
<emOne>
ok so arm is not a manufacturer but a code licensing firm
<emOne>
I get that part
<buzzmarshall>
they give out enough to make hardware makers want to use Arm and the Instruction Set stuff
<emOne>
why would they care if people use 4.9 or 5.6 ?
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<buzzmarshall>
they don't
<emOne>
5.5*
<buzzmarshall>
companies like Amlogic paid for whatever they want
<buzzmarshall>
so if Amlogic wants 5.5 they need to pay again
<buzzmarshall>
which obvioulsy they don't want to
<buzzmarshall>
hence where we now are
<emOne>
but isn't that a bit of a security issue?
<buzzmarshall>
not sure i follow
<emOne>
or are the security fixes included free of charge?
<emOne>
if they license code for 4.9.100
<emOne>
and there is a security problem in that kernel
<emOne>
wouldn't that mean everyone is pretty screwed if they don't update their kernel ?
<emOne>
or is that not how it works buzzmarshall?
<buzzmarshall>
ya i guess. but in this case Amlogic is providing Android and between them and the downstream factories do actually provide that
<buzzmarshall>
but because Amlogic never sold the chips to say a factory like ENY with linux support it leaves anyone wanting to put linux on their ENY box on their own
<buzzmarshall>
so if Eny thought there was a market big enough to offset the cost of going back to Amlogic and say we now want to pay you to support linux then maybe things would be a bit differnt
* emOne
misses the days when the community wanted to install Linux on a toaster
<buzzmarshall>
but even if that happened things like the gpu blobs wouldn't change as that how that product is marketed
<buzzmarshall>
binary blobs are just another mechanism to protect that product
<buzzmarshall>
its a way of distributing whats needed but in a compiled manner
<emOne>
blobs
<buzzmarshall>
so anyone trying to reverse engineer it needs to understand enough about the end result to try and work backwards
<emOne>
blobs and linux doesn't go together
<buzzmarshall>
even looking at the blob in a hew editors not enough to easily recreate what the codes doing
<emOne>
I am all for proprietary software, but please leave that behaviour for another operating system like windows
<buzzmarshall>
blobs are just a binary file so they are created for whatever os your using them on
<emOne>
sure
<emOne>
but why would you use an open source OS if you are planning to load it up with binary blobs
<emOne>
why not use a closed sourced OS
<buzzmarshall>
if the blob was written in assembly they you could get the op code set for the cpu your working on and use a program like IdaPro to dissassemby it
<emOne>
the whole point of GNU is that those who use GNU code, publish derivative work
<buzzmarshall>
most things these days are done in a higher language like c or c++ so thats got to be compiled and linked thru object code and abunch of crap
<emOne>
sure it is
<buzzmarshall>
so without the object code your kinda up against a wall and its time consuming
<buzzmarshall>
its not really something taught much these days as its more of a specialize skill set
<emOne>
technically blobs do not go against the GNU license since they are separate programs that do not modify the underlying OS code
<emOne>
but it is cheating
<buzzmarshall>
most are taught the current level of higher languages
<emOne>
sure a cook who has been making his own private recipes is allowed to keep those recipes
<emOne>
if the same cook however signed a contract with somebody
<emOne>
who gave him free recipes
<buzzmarshall>
haha
<emOne>
with the only condition being that if he modifies or adds to those recipes he is legally obliged to publish the new recipe
<emOne>
then it would mean that he is cheating by creating blobs and calling those blobs a side dish
<emOne>
even though they are served on the same plate
<emOne>
so technically the side dish might not be part of the main dish
<emOne>
but it is a technically
<buzzmarshall>
well with linux being open source it basically means that if anyone uses linux for commercial product either in part or whole then those sources involved need to be made available
<buzzmarshall>
theres a number of different licences but the basic idea is what i said
<emOne>
yes
<buzzmarshall>
now things like Freebsd is different
<emOne>
yep
<buzzmarshall>
the designer is allowed to keep the sources private
<emOne>
and blobs are not part of linux so everyone is in the clear :)
<emOne>
am I wrong?
<emOne>
psymin: how is the food?
<psymin>
Haven't consumed it yet, but it is prepared and waiting for me :)
<buzzmarshall>
lol... actually i just finished mine... ya gotta be fast around here
<buzzmarshall>
linux kernel don't hook the interrupts the same way as the intel and dos did and being winblows has been built ontop of years of old crap it does
<emOne>
that only works on BSD
<buzzmarshall>
mac has there kernel moded to grap the interupts
<buzzmarshall>
as well the old style init systems worked differnt as well
CryptoManiac has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<buzzmarshall>
anyways... maybe psymin is done eating so i will give you guys the time to talk as i am gonna go get cleaned up and will be back
<emOne>
3 more years until 4.9 is EOL ;'(
<buzzmarshall>
lol
<buzzmarshall>
theres still old cnc quipment kickin around on the old 2.6 kernels
<psymin>
the kernel went from 2 to 5 in a blink of an eye
<buzzmarshall>
the hardware they run on is ancient but still serves its purpose
<buzzmarshall>
anyways the old lady says i stink and need to go get cleaned up so i will be back in a bit
* emOne
thinks that Linus Torvalds looks like the linux mascot