<jeosol>
it is a set of 3 grid blocks stack together for fluid flow problems. I have the geometry of all the blocks, but I'll write a function so when call, I get a screen with that image and rotate
<jeosol>
thanks Josh_2: i'll like to rotate the image, zoom in an out,
<Josh_2>
O right
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<jeosol>
right now, I use paraview (some opensource 3d viewer). I write the input, then fireup that application to view the file. It's too clunky.
<Josh_2>
maybe there is a way to write a cl library for paraview?
<jeosol>
That could be an option. there are some python wrappers or interface to it.
<jeosol>
I recall Baggers has some lisp series about a CEPL library that probably uses OPENGL, that is more like what I'll need. Will check
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<Josh_2>
yes
<Josh_2>
cepl is a library to make opengl work nicely with a repl basically
<jeosol>
I will like to fire up the command from emac side and have some window pop up
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<jeosol>
thanks for that. I guess I'll go check cepl
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<LdBeth>
jmercouris: presentations are some kind of visual elements from CLIM/Lisp Machine UI that you can click them with mouse.
<LdBeth>
It can be used to provide a repl that one can click the printed objects to inspect them
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* didi
<3 presentations
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<loke>
LdBeth: CLIM has that, and you can use it today
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<SaganMan>
Morning beach
<SaganMan>
beach, what do I use to code cl in windows?
<beach>
You are asking me?
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<SaganMan>
beach, yes, why so surpised?
<SaganMan>
beach, I recently bought a new gaming laptop.
<beach>
Congratulations.
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<verisimilitude>
I'd use Emacs, SaganMan.
<verisimilitude>
If you can't, then CLISP is a good alternative.
<pjb>
SaganMan: ccl works niceley on MS-Windows.
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<SaganMan>
thanks guys, I gtg now, cya in evening
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<no-defun-allowed>
SBCL runs fine on Windows from my (limited) testing. You can install Portacle and get the install over with quite quickly from portacle.github.io
<no-defun-allowed>
Windows doesn't have a package manager, so it's probably the most convenient way to get SBCL, Quicklisp, Emacs and SLIME.
<verisimilitude>
Doesn't the Windows Store qualify as a package manager?
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<no-defun-allowed>
as much as flatpak, imho, they just download blobs
<no-defun-allowed>
also, have fun installing any free (libre) software using it
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
I believe there's something called something like Chocalatey?
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<no-defun-allowed>
No SBCL there ):
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<flip214>
why not use portacle?
<no-defun-allowed>
I said to use Portacle, since there aren't any good package managers.
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<splittist>
Good morning
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<no-defun-allowed>
Morning splittist
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<flip214>
When using 5AM in a loop, is there some way to name the current iteration? If there's an error then "X evaluated to Y which is not Z" doesn't help that much without the loop iteration or similar data.
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<jackdaniel>
flip214: how about (5am:is (eql 3 4) "iteration ~A" 42) ;?
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<flip214>
jackdaniel: ah, right. Yes, I can annotate each IS test in there with the iteration value -- but then I loose the "expected/got" output!
<flip214>
ah no -- you meant to have a _literal_ (EQL 3 4) to provide output?
<flip214>
awwwwful. that works for debugging right now, but not for automated testing...
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<flip214>
and (5am:PASS ....) doesn't help either
<flip214>
What I'd like to have is some (let ((5am:*test-iteration* (list "my test ~d: ~a" i args))) ...) and have that FORMATted on failures as well (or at the first failure in that loop)
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<flip214>
jackdaniel: are you a maintainer for 5am? would you accept such a patch?
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<jackdaniel>
I am not, sorry
<jackdaniel>
I didn't mean literal (eql 3 4), just the format args
<jackdaniel>
reason-args*
<flip214>
yeah, then I don't get the current value of the expression
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<jackdaniel>
flip214: how do you feel about adding stealth mixins?
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<no-defun-allowed>
is there a way for FORMAT to emit a newline if and only if the formatter is past 80 columns or so?
<jackdaniel>
you mean: wrap lines by character at 80th column?
<no-defun-allowed>
well, i'd prefer at the end of objects, so i can have one print-object method that emits #<type :foo [long foo] [newline] :bar [bar]> or #<type :foo [short foo] :bar [bar]>
<jackdaniel>
in principle pretty printer should take into account *print-right-margin*
<no-defun-allowed>
oh, is there a way to use that to emit the slot list i have in mind?
<jackdaniel>
check out (quite memorable) section 22.2.2 in clhs
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<no-defun-allowed>
hmm, looks complicated, suppose i only have to learn it once though (:
<jackdaniel>
you may also specialize print-object and take into account current column number
<no-defun-allowed>
righteo
<jackdaniel>
(interesting fact: stream-column-number may return NIL, so do not assume it to be always a number)
<no-defun-allowed>
s-c-n doesn't seem to be in CLHS or l1sp search?
<no-defun-allowed>
but, well, pprint-logical-block may be simpler to work with
<jackdaniel>
stream-line-column*
<jackdaniel>
it is part of gray streams
<no-defun-allowed>
i see, thought it might be
<jackdaniel>
either way there is plenty of options
<no-defun-allowed>
indeed
<jackdaniel>
it gets nastier when you do not assume fixed width fonts
<jackdaniel>
(computationally and implementation-ary speaking)
<no-defun-allowed>
oh dear, i'm guessing it's quite a bit harder in CLIM to be sure?
<jackdaniel>
if you assume fixed width than it is equally easy ,)
* no-defun-allowed
replaces her (write-char #\space) with (pprint-newline :linear)
<jackdaniel>
flip214: then you could mix a class with slot iteration* to fiveam::test-failure with :initform *iteration* and define a method reason on said class which: calls next-method and then prints whatever you wanted to preserve
<jackdaniel>
or rather, concatenate these strings
<jackdaniel>
or something like this ,)
<flip214>
jackdaniel: yeah, right. though I'd rather try to get a simple patch upstream...
<jackdaniel>
sure, that's always preferable
<flip214>
my plan was to bind some variable to some explanation; when a test fails, this content would be printed out first (once only!)
<flip214>
perhaps you'll beat me to the implementation? ;)
<jackdaniel>
I doubt it, recently I've ordered a bucket because plate is not enough to have things on it ,)
<jackdaniel>
not sure if the joke is intelligible in English, if it is not, well
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<trafaret1>
o/
<trafaret1>
just question about common lisp package
<trafaret1>
how to figure out what function and parameters it have?
<trafaret1>
*s
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<beach>
trafaret1: Common Lisp packages don't have functions and parameters. Only symbols.
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<beach>
trafaret1: Or, perhaps you don't mean a "package", but a "system"?
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<trafaret1>
beach: i don't have clear vision about lisp but learning it
<sjl_>
something like (do-external-symbols (s :alexandria) (when (fboundp s) (print s))) will get you started
<beach>
trafaret1: I am introducing too much noise here. I'll leav you in the capable hands of sjl_.
<sjl_>
beach is correct in that packages in common lisp are containers for symbols. wrapping your head around symbols is one of the trickier parts of CL if you're coming from other languages.
<sjl_>
but if you just want to say "what new functions can I now call if I import package :foo", the snippet I mentioned above will help you out
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<trafaret1>
sjl_:what do you mean by saing "wrap your head around symbols"?
<sjl_>
a symbol in common lisp is an object like any other. most programming languages try to hide away their existence from you
<sjl_>
e.g. in CL you can do (inspect 'if) to look at the symbol IF
<sjl_>
this takes some getting used to
<sjl_>
especially if you're coming from Python, where something like "if foo: ..." is parsed into some kind of abstract syntax tree by Python that you never get to see/worry about
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<sjl_>
but, to maybe clarify what beach was getting at: a symbol in CL can name many different things. For example, you can have a class and a function with the same name:
<sjl_>
(defclass foo () ())
<sjl_>
(defun foo () (write-line "hello!"))
<sjl_>
(make-instance 'foo) ;=> an instance of foo
<sjl_>
(foo) ;=> calls the function
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<sjl_>
You can't export just one or the other from a package, because packages are containers of symbols. You export the symbol foo, not the class or the function it names.
<sjl_>
so the snippet I pasted: (do-external-symbols (s :alexandria) (when (fboundp s) (print s))) says "for each exported symbol of the package :alexandria, if it names a function, print it"
<sjl_>
Which does (I think) what you were originally asking for (minus the parameters bit, which you can use describe to get at, though I think that might be implementation dependent)
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<LdBeth>
Good morning
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<jmercouris>
Good morning
<beach>
Hello jmercouris.
<pjb>
trafaret1: to understand "wrap your head round something", you will have to read "Stranger in a Strange Land" and grok the word "grok" (which is a Martian word).
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<pjb>
sjl_: only being fbound doesn't mean name a function: (defmacro foo () 'foo) #| --> foo |# (fboundp 'foo) #| --> #(7100233775316992 #<Compiled-function foo Macroexpander #x3020031D527F>) |#
<pjb>
Unless the implementation is "misbehaved" and define special operators and others in implementation specific packages, so you would have to exclude those packages too.
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<shka_>
fortitude: i think i may consider creating fork, so i may merge your bugfix as well
<fortitude>
shka_: it may very well be worthwhile to fork in order to pursue different goals than the original author
<fortitude>
I'm kind of curious if performance can be improved without having to switch to a struct (probably not by as much), but I don't know if I'll have any time to look at it soon
<shka_>
fortitude: it would be difficult, those accessors are killing it
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<fortitude>
shka_: but if those aren't exported, you might be able to move that data into a struct stored in the class
<fortitude>
same interface, but the internals can skip the heftier accessor methods
<fortitude>
depends on how it's structured, thouh
<shka_>
maybe? but this would break the backward comp anyway
<shka_>
and is not a hanging fruit
<shka_>
*low hanging fruit
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<fortitude>
if you can preserve the interface, you avoid the compatability issues
<fortitude>
but it's also more complex, which is why a fork focusing on speed is reasonable
<shka_>
i think i will fork it
<shka_>
i have huge csv files, cl-csv requires way to much time to chew them up
<fortitude>
I saw about 30 seconds to process 80k rows or so with cl-csv, where a javascript library was only a few seconds tops
<fortitude>
there's a pretty big speed gap, if you aren't IO-bound
<shka_>
yup
<shka_>
i may also check fare-csv for speed
<shka_>
IIRC it wasn't any faster, but maybe i am wrong
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<shka_>
anyway, if both fare-csv and cl-csv are slow, i will roll my own csv reader based on the cl-csv
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<shka_>
i will probably optimize it further, so it will be completely on par with the python csv module
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
nevermind, it looks like its behind the master branch of the original
<shka_>
i think i will write my own parser using cl-csv as reference
<fiddlerwoaroof>
no, it's not mine, but dim is the maintainer of pgloader
<shka_>
i see
<fiddlerwoaroof>
The code isn't very pretty, but I have a somewhat optimized split function that fixed my issues
<fiddlerwoaroof>
My main concerns were to make it faster to process really big strings and to expose the interface of Python's str.split which is, im(ns)ho, the best-designed split function out htere
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<jasom>
beach: Do you have any thoughts on the suitability of SICL for working as a transpiler; e.g. how sane would it be to write a HIR to <some other language> compiler, and how easy would it be to get a large subset of lisp working in that manner?
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<jasom>
I know that the bootstrap phase requires some sort of incremental code loading, so it may not be workable for less dynamic languages...
<Bike>
sicl uses a HIR to CL translator, and clasp uses a HIR to LLVM-IR translator
<Bike>
you'd have to come up with a runtime yourself, though
<jasom>
Bike: IIRC SICL only uses an HIR to CL translator for a small subset when bootstrapping, and then the new runtime does the rest?
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<jasom>
Clasp uses ECL's runtime and then runs the clasp compiler on top of that ,right?
<jasom>
s/ecl/a fork of ecl/
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<Bike>
the HIR to CL translator in SICL can handle all of lisp, i think
<Bike>
and yes, that is how clasp works, but the point is the compiler is complete that way
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<jasom>
oh, neat; I'll have to look at both of those. The existence of HIR to CL seems to imply that it can handle cases where code is not stored on a user-accessible heap at least.
<Bike>
er, I don't understand what you mean.
<Bike>
It's just an IR. Doesn't have anything about where code is going.
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<jasom>
The SICL standard library might rely on e.g. "give me the range of PCs for which this function is executing" for e.g. debugging or conditions.
<jasom>
The library and the runtime can never be fully divorced
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<Bike>
the SICL standard library is written in lisp, so it doesn't do anything like that
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<jasom>
well there is lisp and then there is lisp. Plenty of lisp code in the SBCL library makes assumptions about how the runtime works, for example.
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<Bike>
the parts of SICL are intended to be usable on other implementations
<jasom>
but it sounds like it is worth me learning more about SICL at this point, so thanks for answering...
<Bike>
it's hard to actually do that, but that's more because of the standard not being modular than because the SICL code relies on internal representations
<jasom>
my goodness yes the standard is not modular.
<jasom>
There's not any obvious kernel lisp implementation that is the right basis for building a full CL implementation
* jasom
always thought it might be interesting to implement CL in one of the smaller scheme standards just for the sake of portability.
<jasom>
It's not obvious that e.g. R4RS is a good kernel language for lisp, but you can run R4RS scheme on just about anything these days.
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<Bike>
well, i think the point i want to make is that HIR is high level enough that it doesn't involve implementation details at all, except maybe how big fixnums are. and even then if you don't have inline definitions that won't come into play
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<Bike>
which is good, because sicl and clasp have very different ideas about the runtime
<jasom>
but it does seem like it would be hard to do something like CLiCC with SICL since it expects to be hosted in the final runtime (except when bootstrapping), right?
<jasom>
both LLVM and CL have in common the fact that you can load new code at runtime.
<Bike>
that's not a property of the LLVM-IR language. you could have a C backend, compile things into SOs and then dlopen them
<jasom>
it's distinct from the KCL family in that it is intended for writing static application code that will be compiled once AOT rather than incrementally compiled and loaded.
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<Bike>
I see.
<Bike>
SICL, the implementation, is not intended to do that. beach is all about an interactive system
<jasom>
right
<Bike>
I see no reason you couldn't do that in Cleavir, but I don't think that's any interesting property of the IR
<Bike>
that with Cleavir*, rather
<LdBeth>
Apply partial evaluation to MOP?
<Bike>
Huh what
<LdBeth>
That could be a add on for compiling a static program
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