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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<boeg>
hi, beach
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<jmercouris>
is there something like WITH-PACKAGE where you can use a specific package to wrap a body?
<jmercouris>
I'm imagining a way that you could have like (with-pacakge :some-package (xyz "a")) instead of having to do (some-package:xyz "a")
<jmercouris>
could you make a macro using IN-PACKAGE? how could you detect the current package? or would you need to supply that to this theoretical macro?
<jmercouris>
interesting so *package* seems to be a special variable
<jmercouris>
fascinating so you could keep a reference to that and easily make a with-package macro
<jmercouris>
has anyone else done this before? is this a known technique?
<LdBeth>
jmercouris: the funny thing is if you use a macro other than in-package the compiler would not see that
<jmercouris>
What?
<LdBeth>
So the only thing you can do is use read time eval or eval-when
<jmercouris>
you don't have to use in-package, you can just setf *package*
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<jmercouris>
then, surely the compiler would see that
<LdBeth>
You can have a try
<LdBeth>
put setf instead of in-package
<LdBeth>
And see if the compiled function is in the package you want
<jmercouris>
I wonder actually what it will think/do
<jmercouris>
maybe one does have to use in-package, perhaps in-package does something special
<jmercouris>
I've never macroexpanded it
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<LdBeth>
jmercouris: so I tested with CCL
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<LdBeth>
If the file is directly loaded (setf package) is evaluated, if the file is loaded as compiled fasl it won’t
<LdBeth>
Although CLHS has specified this, I still think this behavior could be a source of confusion.
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<no-defun-allowed>
zulu-inuoe: thanks, but don't die pls
<no-defun-allowed>
i can't be held accountable (certainly not on #lisp) for your death either
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<zulu-inuoe>
Aaah right. Should have #lispcafe
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<no-defun-allowed>
also, i only brought it up in that room about 15 minutes ago
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<trafaret1>
o/
<trafaret1>
right out of the blue question
<trafaret1>
does it possible to get all symbols in cl package?
<ck_>
yes, that does possible.
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<trafaret1>
ck_: for example I download zsort package via quicklisp
<trafaret1>
what kind of command shoudl I use to get all symbols in than packgae?
* Lycurgus
o/ ck
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<ck_>
trafaret1: for example, you can get a list by running (loop for sym being the external-symbols in :zsort collect sym)
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<ck_>
there's also do-symbols, do-external-symbols, and do-all-symbols. Let's see if I remember the bot command
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<pjb>
minion: memo for jmercouris: https://pastebin.com/qJTUxwYc (note: !?{}[] as (dispatching) reader macros are reserved for the user, so don't use them in code published in quicklisp)..
<minion>
Remembered. I'll tell jmercouris when he/she/it next speaks.
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<Josh_2>
I made a (with-..) macro that uses variables that are part of the hunchentoots package (*session* and *request*) do I need to gensym or something with this type of macro?
<Josh_2>
I just updated quicklisp client and software
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<krwq>
is there some way to use uiop in such a way that you run infinietely running process (i.e. 'yes') and keep on reading the output. so i.e. (with-running-program ("yes" std-out) ())
<krwq>
sorry,
<krwq>
I meant this inside the macro (loop for line = (read-line std-out) do (something line))
<krwq>
or some other library
<krwq>
actually seeing uiop:launch, will play around, if someone has some example please let me know :)
<aeth>
krwq: yeah, launch-program is usually what you want, not run-program. Although there might be a better portability library to do the same thing.
<aeth>
it requires a bit of boilerplate, though, unfortunately
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<krwq>
aeth: so far I mostly used tiny wrapper on top of run-program since I've only run very short running commands and needed short output but now wanted to run something indefinitely and stream data
<krwq>
I see, so you just pass :stream as output and then use process-info-output
<krwq>
per doc, looking at your example now
<aeth>
Well, you probably won't get much from the code. Too disorganized, and the UIOP stuff is all over the place. The imports tell you what you need, though. launch-program, process-alive-p, process-info-input, process-info-output, terminate-process, wait-process, and process-info
<krwq>
pretty nice, still will create macro on top of that since that seems a bit awkward
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<aeth>
The API for launch-program is full of boilerplate. There might be a library with similar functionality that's better there, or you might have to write a few helper functions/macros, maybe 30-60 lines or so.
<aeth>
It's probably because there are so many options, though
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<krwq>
aeth: I think I only need two options: either all string or all stream so will just have a func for string case and macro for stream
<aeth>
You'd duplicate some of the work of the library, but you could make that one code path by using a with-output-to-string stream
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<aeth>
krwq: That wrapper looks a bit too thin. Why not just import-from in the defpackage?
<krwq>
aeth: I don't like thinking about names uiop used. They feel inconsistent - i.e. I usually group functions with similar functionality with prefix (i.e. process-*) besides I have found bugs in so many libraries already that I prefer to create wrappers so that I have stable APIs
<aeth>
the names are pretty bad, yes, imo
<aeth>
There are probably lighter ways to rename a function. Maybe even just making the trivial wrapper functions inline.
<krwq>
aeth: while usually in lisp people prefer verb-something (i.e. kill-process rather than process-kill) I have gone with less english readable names but easier to discover
<krwq>
aeth: what do you mean by lighter? isn't macro light?
<aeth>
I mean e.g. (defun process-kill (process) (uiop:terminate-process process))
<aeth>
That's not very lightweight.
<krwq>
aeth: you mean the function call overhead?
<krwq>
I don't care :P
<aeth>
Common CL implementations basically never automatically inline unless you tell them to, afaik.
<krwq>
I don't care, when I do I will fix it - process execution is already way higher overhead than that
<krwq>
aeth: besides I've already started using builtin stuff after a way so many times :P (wasn't convinced to APIs at first but once I expanded my use cases I decided to just use original)
<krwq>
s/after a way/after some time/
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<aeth>
krwq: well, you only need to solve efficient function renaming once
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<krwq>
aeth: true but I have my own tiny standard library and I try to avoid putting stuff there which I'm not convinced will be useful yet
<krwq>
aeth: I have another one on top of it where I experiment with stuff
<krwq>
aeth: but you know, chicken and the egg problem
<aeth>
for renaming, maybe with one of those libraries that take a function lambda list and then `(progn (declaim (inline ,new-name)) (defun ,new-name ,old-lambda-list ...)) ; might get tricky with keyword/optional
<aeth>
s/take a function lambda list/extract a function's lambda list/
<krwq>
aeth: I'll solve this problem in one pass when I'll care about it
<krwq>
aeth: don't like going into too much details when thinking about larger problem
<krwq>
which now reminded me what I needed the streaming from process for :P
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<krwq>
basically playing with ADCs in C# on my Raspberry PI and wanted to plot the data in lisp from my main machine so will just run C# app by ssh and print the data out
<krwq>
on the plot specifically
<krwq>
would prefer use lisp all the way but need the ADC for work so got constrained by the language
<Josh_2>
send the data to a cl backend :P
<krwq>
Josh_2: that's what my plan was hence my question about streaming from process (technically could use sockets as well but didn't want to add too much logic in the process)
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<Josh_2>
oh right
<Josh_2>
It's not much logic to json up the data and send it over a packet?
<aeth>
Depends on the data. And personally I haven't found a JSON library that I like.
<Josh_2>
cl-json works fine for everything I've used it for
<Josh_2>
One of which has been sending data over sockets from java to cl backend, no problemos
<aeth>
That's a sign of a complete failure to understand that CL's NIL is used as false considerably more often than as a null-equivalent, and causes me to completely distrust the competency of the author
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<aeth>
You can probably override that and do something like NIL <-> false, and :null <-> null, but I'm not sure I trust code written by someone who shows such a lack of understanding of the language that the author doesn't even understand a language's "false".
<Josh_2>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<Josh_2>
I suppose because I have always decided the data that is sent it hasn't been an issue
<Josh_2>
so it will translate both ways
<aeth>
But look at that table (which is a pretty useful table). The defaults are not round-trippable.
<aeth>
So going CL->JSON->CL could give you different data than you sent. e.g. sending #\C will give you "C"
<aeth>
At that point you might as well not directly support characters/symbols and require that the user convert them imo. CL isn't an auto-coerce language, there would be a (+ 1 "foo") probablem even if + was overloaded to also mean concatenate 'string
<aeth>
*problem
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<aeth>
Wow, I butchered that sentence. There would NOT be a (+ 1 "foo") problem
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