Xach changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/>
<selfsymmetric-mu> It works great. Thanks again!
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<pjb> selfsymmetric-mu: the questionis rather why you use quasiquote instead of lambda.
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<selfsymmetric-mu> Thank you! I ended up using (some #'funcall actions) and moved the predicates into the functions as simple if forms.
<pjb> Yes. The thing is to use functions instead of forms that you need to compile at run-time. Functions can be compiled earlier.
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<rumbler31> anyone do the advent of code this year?
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<Josh_2> rumbler31: what is that?
<Josh_2> Well gonna be a bit late for that
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<rumbler31> no reason you can't start now. 50 free problems
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<rumbler31> I'm stuck on day 3 part 2. I know how to get the answer but apparently I don't know how to code for the answer
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<montxero> What are some of the things necessary to write a plotting library from scratch
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<rumbler31> at the risk of sounding dumb, nothing?
<LdBeth> rumbler31: it’s fairly easy compute the distance to all different intersection points as a brutal force method
<LdBeth> Since the graph isn’t cyclic
<no-defun-allowed> You need to draw some lines on some kind of output that looks like a graph, and some linear equations.
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<no-defun-allowed> montxero: Do you mean something like gnuplot where you give it some points and it draws a graph of some sort?
<rumbler31> LdBeth: I know. I have discovered each crossing coordinate, and I have arrays of the coordinates of each line, and I can get the positions of each crossing in each array
<rumbler31> and when I sum up the distances to each crossing and sort them, the lowest number I get is not the answer
<LdBeth> I gave up at day 17 anyway
<rumbler31> I suspect my coordinates are not truly in order in the array, but from what I can tell, they should be. order doesn't matter for part 1 which would explain why I can answer that and not this
<LdBeth> rumbler31: umm, so did your answer works on the small data sample they give?
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<rumbler31> yes
<rumbler31> I"m vexxed
<rumbler31> oh there are two test inputs, let me try the second
<rumbler31> yup, same answer
<rumbler31> its possible I'm missing a crossing I guess
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<LdBeth> rumbler31: maybe you can try a more “clever” method, constructing a weighted graph and search for the shortest path by breadth first search
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<rumbler31> hmm a weighted graph
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<montxero> no-defun-allowed: Exactly. I mean something similar to Gnuplot
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<montxero> Preferably without depending on LTK or the like
<LdBeth> rumbler31: if you search something like Dijkstra shortest path ;)
<no-defun-allowed> montxero: You would want to determine a transformation from the coordinate space you want for the points (possibly the minimum X and Y values to maximum) to the coordinate space of your graphics output. Then you apply those transformations to your points and draw them.
<no-defun-allowed> Oops, meant for #lispcafe.
<no-defun-allowed> Still very bad news though :(
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<rumbler31> I seem to be getting different answers for my intersections than someone else's code so oh well
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
<Josh_2> Mornin beach
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<no-defun-allowed> Is it possible to pass arguments to initialize-instance on the metaclass that are evaluated from DEFCLASS?
<Bike> you mean, you want to write a defclass form, and include some keyword arguments for initialize-instance, and have the values be evaluated?
<no-defun-allowed> Yes.
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<Bike> i don't think that's possible.
<no-defun-allowed> I guess I could (mapcar #'eval <the argument>), and it would half-work.
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<no-defun-allowed> Are there any reasons to use DEFCLASS in a non-null lexical environment?
<beach> I think so, yes.
<beach> The :INITFORMs might be in a non-null lexical environment.
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<no-defun-allowed> True.
<beach> (let ((x 0)) (defclass bla () ((x :initform (incf x)))))
<LdBeth> no-defun-allowed: you could pass a thunk to be funcalled by initialize-instance
<LdBeth> Rather than call eval
<Bike> can't write that in a macro, ldbeth.
<Bike> without #. or somethin anyway
<no-defun-allowed> LdBeth: You mean like (defclass foo (...) (...) (:bar (lambda ...)))? That would still be quoted.
<LdBeth> Well, at least possible with #.
<Bike> i mean, but then it's evaluated in a null lexical environment
<Bike> so you haven't solved anything
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<peey> Is there function equivalent to assoc but it checks equality of the value (cdr) than the key?
<no-defun-allowed> clhs rassoc
<peey> That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
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<emaczen> Is there a funcallable variant of cffi:foreign-funcall-pointer? What do you do if your arguments aren't known until runtime?
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<emaczen> I looked at the macro-expansion form of course, but will this API change?
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<bestinket> hi
<no-defun-allowed> Hello bestinket
<bestinket> I did (defvar *db* nil) I pushed some contents on tha database, now i want to view them
<smokeink> *db*
<beach> ... followed by <RET> :)
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<beach> bestinket: Did that work?
<bestinket> ofc
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<beach> Then, it is customary to acknowledge that fact, like by saying "smokeink: Thanks!"
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<bestinket> (defun add-record (cd) (push cd *db*))
<bestinket> CL-USER> (add-record (make-cd "Roses" "Kathy Mattea" 7 t))
<bestinket> ((:TITLE "Roses" :ARTIST "Kathy Mattea" :RATING 7 :RIPPED T))
<beach> Like I said, when you find the help you get to be useful, it is customary to acknowledge that fact, like by saying "smokeink: Thanks!"
<bestinket> when is the (push cd *db*) executed, thanks beach smokeink
<beach> When you call ADD-RECORD.
<smokeink> you're welcome
<no-defun-allowed> When the Lisp evaluator calls ADD-RECORD with your CD, it then evaluates the body of ADD-RECORD.
<no-defun-allowed> That occurs after the same process is done with MAKE-CD.
* jackdaniel smells PCL :)
<ck_> good choice for a christmas present
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<beach> bestinket: Common Lisp is no different from most languages in this respect. It is call-by-value eager evaluation.
<bestinket> (add-record (make-cd ...)) asa add-record is called, make-cd too is called so make-cd is executed first then push..
<smokeink> right
<beach> Right, just with most other languages.
<beach> just *as* with...
<jackdaniel> beach: in function calls first arguments are evaluated then the function is applied to them (left-to-right order of evaluation is guaranteed, unlike i.e C)
<jackdaniel> bestinket: °
<jackdaniel> not you beach , I'm sure you know that ;-)
<beach> Thanks for the reminder though! :)
<jackdaniel> bestinket: you may override that behavior (the evaluation rule) with macros, but you don't need to concern yourself with that yet
<bestinket> i am not comfortable in the repl
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<jackdaniel> you may write your code in the file and then compile/load said file like in other languages
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<jackdaniel> repl is /something more/, not the obligatory tool
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<bestinket> repl has no persistence unlike jupyter notebooks
<bestinket> and no "cells"
<jackdaniel> then use cl-jupyter
<jackdaniel> no problem with that
<beach> bestinket: The usual way of working is that you have an Emacs+SLIME instance, and you have one Emacs window with a source file and the other with the REPL.
<jackdaniel> you can't say that oranges are bad becase they are not as fast as a car -- they are two different things and speed is not axis of their comparison
<beach> bestinket: You then edit the file and hit a few keystrokes to have SLIME transfer the code to your Common Lisp system.
<beach> bestinket: That way you have persistence.
<beach> bestinket: The REPL is used mostly for testing the code you just typed in.
<jackdaniel> bestinket: https://github.com/fredokun/cl-jupyter , this softwre is actively maintained (if you insist on using jupyter notebooks)
<bestinket> so repl is only for one-liners
<no-defun-allowed> You can write any length of code in the REPL.
<jackdaniel> yes, that would be fair statement that it works best for one-liners, you use file buffers for longer snippets
<beach> bestinket: Not necessarily one-liners, but for code that you don't intend to save, like testing the code you *do* want to save.
<jackdaniel> but asn no-defun-allowed noted, you may write code of any length in the repl
<no-defun-allowed> I would say that LOADing a file and typing it form-by-form into the REPL give you the same result, but there probably would be some difference.
<bestinket> because if we write 4 lines, then how would be get the repl's 4 lines to load inside the file for persistence?
<jackdaniel> I don't understand the above question
<smokeink> just do as beach said, save your sourcecode in a file and use Emacs with Slime
<bestinket> you said we can write longer lines inside repl
<no-defun-allowed> You could use DRIBBLE to write out everything that happens in the REPL to a file for later analysis.
<no-defun-allowed> clhs dribble
<no-defun-allowed> Yes you can.
<beach> bestinket: You typically don't type those lines in the REPL then. You type them in a buffer that has a file backing.
<beach> bestinket: Then you can hit (say) C-c C-c and the code will be transferred to your Common Lisp system.
<beach> bestinket: From then on, you can use your code from the REPL.
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<bestinket> sbcl --script file.cl doesn't add a newline on format t "hello" but clisp file.cl does?
<no-defun-allowed> Do you mean (format t "hello")?
<jackdaniel> if you want to add a new line, do (format t "hello~%")
<no-defun-allowed> That isn't the same as « format t "hello" », nor is it obligated to write a new line at the end.
<pjb> bestinket: repl has persistence, if you call (DRIBBLE).
<pjb> clhs dribble
<no-defun-allowed> You could also use (write-line "hello"), but admittedly I don't know if it's considered as bad to use FORMAT with no arguments, as, say, it is in C to use printf with no arguments.
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<reg32> Hi Phoe
<reg32> are you active in the channel?
<beach> He is.
<reg32> Phoe: I have fixed Roswell bug #395. I know that you are interested into it
<reg32> culd you test it also on your side?
<reg32> I am just a contributor so my fix is not merged yet but I have just raised a pull request. The pull must be merged and roswell bult from sources
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<Xach> wotta nitemare. cl-colors2 is a fork of cl-colors that does not rename the package and now something depends on both and it's broken!
<Xach> why on earth do i have both?
<dlowe> why does something depend on both
<Xach> dlowe: an old project depended on both prove and cl-colors. prove just added a dep on cl-colors2. it's indirect.
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<Xach> (i think)
<eeeeeta> Xach: does quicklisp / ASDF actually allow you to depend on two packages with different versions?
<phoe> minion: memo for reg32: Thanks! I'll check it out later.
<minion> Remembered. I'll tell reg32 when he/she/it next speaks.
<eeeeeta> I'm guessing not, because then you can't like load both
<_death> Xach: multiple wtfs there, but I guess the easiest fix is to convince cl-colors2 and its users to change package name
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<Xach> eeeeeta: no. but two different system names are two different systems.
<eeeeeta> Xach: so if a library author made a breaking change, then everything would be broken until dependent libraries fixed it?
<Xach> yes
<galdor> you cannot really force people to maintain their code a certain way
<galdor> at some point, if a system breaks everything, people will stop using it
<galdor> or you can decide quicklisp is highly opiniated and only accept systems which behave a specific way, but then quicklisp users will complain not having access to other systems
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<Xach> galdor: if something is maintained in a way that makes it impossible to include in quicklisp, i let people know. they can change it if they like.
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<galdor> impossible sure; but it's hard to police all the little conflicts (packages, readtables, etc.)
<Xach> yes, that is not a goal for me.
<Xach> there are combinations of packages that cannot be used together and i don't consider that a very important problem.
<Xach> it is a minor problem today and only noticed because it replaces a bigger problem.
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<Xach> maybe it's not related to prove after all
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<yottabyte> hi, is anyone here familiar with ABCL?
<jackdaniel> yottabyte: I'm sure that some are. Is it abcl-specific question? if you find no luck here, then you may try #abcl channel
<yottabyte> oh, I didn't know there was an IRC channel for ABCL, I'll check it out since it is ABCL specific, thanks
<jackdaniel> sure
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<puchacz> hi, is sbcl 2.0.0 a big rewrite of something? or just new year?
<jackdaniel> puchacz: just new decade
<puchacz> :-)
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<pfdietz> The huge change is that the most significant digit has increased.
<pfdietz> Oh, and the usual efficiency and correctness and code cleanliness modifications.
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<puchacz> pfdietz, sure I am very happy with sbcl
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<pjb> puchacz: now we know that for sbcl, version v.a.i means year:2000+v*10+a month:i
<pjb> perhaps month:i+1
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<puchacz> pjb: it makes sense as sbcl is released monthly
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<mark91> Is there a way to launch an interactive CLI app with lisp (SBCL)? I'm trying to emulate the Ruby command `system "vim CHANGES.md && git add CHANGES.md` which launches vim, allows you to edit and then adds the file to Git. I tried `uiop:run-program` but it complains about not being a terminal.
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<pjb> mark91: you can open a X terminal with xterm: xterm -e /bin/bash -l -c "your command here"
<mark91> pjb: Thanks that might be a good option. Since I posted my question I did discover that `run-program` supports `:input/:output :interactive` which seems to do what I want.
<pjb> mark91: without xterm, you can use eg. Terminal.app: (echo ls ; echo read -p done done) > /tmp/c.command ; chmod 755 /tmp/c.command ; open -a Terminal.app /tmp/c.command
<pjb> ls = your command.
<pjb> mark91: ccl comes with /Applications/Clozure CL.app/Contents/Resources/AltConsole.app to do this kind of stuff…
<pjb> mark91: perhaps, reading the taoup would be a good thing. http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/
<pjb> mark91: because you might be under the illusion that a terminal is available. What if your application is launched by Siri to answer a question in a purely audio user interface?
<mark91> The intended user for this app is me and it assumes you edit markdown in vim :)
<mark91> Hey siri, 2 j c w type ... :)
<mark91> That said, I've been meaning to read that book. I think I'll get it now.
<pjb> mark91: just be careful with the context.
<jasom> TIL sb-posix won't build with a writable root
<jasom> one of the tests checks that root isn't other-writable as a sanity check for stat
<pjb> I'd propose a time machine, or patches…
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<jasom> I was building portacle in a chroot, which is how I discovered it.
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<Inline> happy new year
<duuqnd> Happy new year!
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<akoana> happy new year!
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<PuercoPope> (happpy (incf year))!
<PuercoPope> *happyp
<ArthurStrong> PuercoPope: #T
<no-defun-allowed> ArthurStrong: you misspelled T
<ArthurStrong> no-defun-allowed: what is the correct way?
<ArthurStrong> to spell it?
<akoana> t
<ArthurStrong> OK
<akoana> you nasty schemer :) lol
<ArthurStrong> yep
<ArthurStrong> a scout here
<ArthurStrong> spy
<akoana> haha you've been discovered :)
<LdBeth> Wtt
* ArthurStrong like Scheme and Racket more. But there are more good books based on CL
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<akoana> ArthurStrong: come on (it's) lisp - happy new year!
<akoana> :)
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