p_l changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | ASDF 3.3.4
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<gjulio> hey i'm new to the channel and new-ish to lisp. i'm getting stuck with the syntax on using remove with reduce. if i have a blacklist ofsymbols '(a b c) and a list '(a b a c a b b a). I want to use reduce to obtain '(a a b b a).
<gjulio> i'm trying this
<gjulio> (reduce (lambda (x y) (remove x y :count 1))
<gjulio> '(a b c)
<gjulio> :initial-value '(a b a c a b b a))
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<gjulio> ah sheeit, i should just sway x and y in my remove call...
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<beach> gjulio: Did you solve your problem?
<gjulio> yeah, beach it all worked out. thanks
<beach> Great!
<beach> And welcome to #lisp.
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<shukryzablah> is it possible to make + add two vectors element-wise? (+ (vector 1 2) (vector 3 4)) -> #(4 6) . How can I do this?
<White_Flame> (map 'vector #'+ #(1 2) #(3 4))
<White_Flame> of course, that's not making + do anything new, but using + element-wise across two vectors
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<beach> shukryzablah: No, you can't alter the behavior of +, nor of many other basic Common Lisp functions. But you can create your own package and your own + function that is able to add vectors.
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<aeth> If you want type-based generics (as opposed to class-based... normally classes are sufficient, but for numbers/arrays they often aren't), one library to do this is https://github.com/markcox80/specialization-store/
<aeth> It's a slower generic dispatch unless it can be inlined.
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<fbmnds> Hi, maybe first some context: I intend to use the Qt5 bindings for ECL (EQL5 https://gitlab.com/eql/EQL5) for my own project. EQL5 comes with a nice collection of examples which most of them I got running on my ARM64 developer platform. I expect to figure out how to use EQL5 for my project on my own.
<fbmnds> I'd like to know whether there is interest in this community to dig into EQL5 in essence to be able to further maintain this project. From what I understood going through the code base, EQL5 is based on witty design ideas and allows for cross platform GUI development (the examples apps work nice on my Android mobile, too - iOS is also supported).
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<beach> fbmnds: Hello. You may have better luck some other time. This is early Saturday morning in Europe, and late Friday evening in north America.
<beach> And many participants have families, so weekends are kind of slow here.
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<fbmnds> @beach ok - I'll post again on Monday morning :-)
<beach> Good plan. Oh, and this is IRC, and the @ convention is not used. Just type the nickname followed by a `:'. Your IRC client should complete for you.
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<beach> fbmnds: And, the channel is logged, so you might get some feedback over the weekend.
* adlai occasionally sees a comma instead of colon, this seems like a less formal convention... most IRC clients will highlight the message in either case
<adlai> fbmnds: there is also an #ecl channel that might be useful since you are asking about an ECL-specific project
<fbmnds> beach: I alienate quite a bit with chat platforms in general
<fbmnds> adlai: no traffic there in at least the last couple of days
* adlai mumbles something about how maybe they'd get more excitement about ECL if it implemented the complete ANSI specification
<beach> fbmnds: jackdaniel is the current maintainer of ECL, and he fulfills all the criteria. He has a family (new baby too), and he is very busy. But he is often around.
<beach> adlai: Is ECL lacking a lot in this respect?
<fbmnds> beach: thank you, I know
<beach> Ah, OK.
<adlai> beach: no, I am only aware of one painful incompliance - the lack of :arguments in the long form of define-method-combination
<fbmnds> beach: I browsed the logs already when I was searching for another topic
<beach> adlai: I see.
<beach> fbmnds: OK.
<adlai> I've considered taking this on as a project, since at least one other implementation (Clasp) has inherited that problem, by reusing ECL's code
<beach> Indeed. And I was planning to use ECL to bootstrap SICL, so I might be interested as well. Plus, I have this long-term plan to try to create a Cleavir-based compiler for ECL.
<adlai> are you already using the :arguments argument in SICL?
<beach> I don't think so.
<beach> But I might. :)
<adlai> it seems understandable to me that an attempt to write an efficient method dispatch system would skip that one feature, although the result is a nuisance, because it is a very useful feature
<beach> I understand.
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<fbmnds> phoe: ref. [2020-03-28, 13:46 <phoe> nope, it's non-portable and SBCL-only] osicat runs on ECL too (https://pastebin.com/VSQDwAKu) - just saying
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<phoe> fbmnds: my answer was to "do other distributions have a sb-posix compatibility layer? ccl?" not to osicat itself
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<phoe> I don't think any other implementation emulates SB-POSIX
<phoe> ECL follows some SBCL interfaces, but the last time I checked (and I might have failed) it doesn't have a layer that follows SB-POSIX
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<jackdaniel> ah, he's gone
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<jackdaniel> adlai: lack of this argument is a bug, but saying that "ecl doesn't implement the complete ansi specification" based on one missing argument is quite a stretch
<jackdaniel> please report an issue on the bugtracker
<jackdaniel> even sbcl doesn't pass all tests from ansi-test suite (some of disrapencies were a deliberate choice at that!)
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<fbmnds> phoe: ah ok - I came across this when I looked into osicat as a dependency of cserial-port while porting from SBCL to ECL. I had problems with getting osicat to run until I realised that it runs well if ECL is compiled as default with gcc (had previously used g++)
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<jackdaniel> fbmnds: eql5 is actively developed and maintained by Paul Ruetz (the project author), I'm not sure what do you mean by "maintaining further" the project
<fbmnds> btw, has anyone succeeded in building a reliable permanent connection to a microcontroller with cserial-port? I tend to believe that is practically not possible due to timing issues between send/response sequences. I am looking now to make my own FFI wrapper for a C library.
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<fbmnds> jackdaniel: I refer to upcoming maintenace challenges in a foreseeable future, given that Paul Ruetz mentioned to me in a private email conversation that he regards EQL5 as a hobby project on which he does not want to spend too much of his private time.
<jackdaniel> uhm, thanks for elaborating
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<fbmnds> jackdaniel: I should add that I am also refering to the upcoming Qt6 release (https://www.qt.io/blog/2019/08/07/technical-vision-qt-6)
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<MrtnDk[m]> In Guile scheme, which command do you recommend for reading a line of text (from a file stored on a fixed disk, for instance)?
<MrtnDk[m]> (as opposed to common lisp, I guess). 🥴
<MrtnDk[m]> (Sorry, I guess I posted it in the wrong Lisp. I just reread the room discription of this one).
<rgherdt> you can ask that on #guile or #scheme. But you probably want to take a look at read-line
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<MrtnDk[m]> <rgherdt "you can ask that on #guile or #s"> I tried readline, but it doesn't seem to work in newer guiles. (use-package (ice-9 readline)) or something.
<rgherdt> MrtnDk[m]: don't confuse readline (GNU's tool) with scheme's read-line. The latter can be imported for instance from (scheme base) or rdelim
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<iissaacc> yo, im working with common lisp and i have a directory of 74000 files i need to process. (directory) is running okay but I'm only getting 50 filenames, anyone know why this could be?
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<phoe> iissaacc: how do you call #'directory?
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<iissaacc> phoe: (setf *fnames* (directory "/Users/isaac/Dropbox/patterns/*"))
<phoe> iissaacc: that won't include subdirs IIRC
<pve> iissaacc: try *.* instead
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<_death> for subdirectories you can try */*.* or **/*.*
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<iissaacc> aha
<iissaacc> thanks for that my Gs got it
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<phoe> there is also uiop:collect-sub*directories
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<MrtnDk[m]> rgherdt: Ahh! I thought "read-line" was a typo I made, since it generated an error and isn't mentioned in the texinfo documentation of the guile reference!
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<nabataeus> Hello :D
<nabataeus> Has anyone here ever tried to emulate a Symbolics Lisp Machine?
<nabataeus> I'm asking because I'm attempting to emulate one though I don't know where to look.
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<phoe> nabataeus: there is code for running Open Genera, called VLM
<phoe> also some for MIT CADR
<nabataeus> phoe: Is open Genera an OSS version of the original Genera? Does it differ, or is just relicensed.
<phoe> it isn't OSS
<nabataeus> Oh alright
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<p_l> nabataeus: OpenGenera was "Open" in the sense of not requiring custom CPU platform
<nabataeus> And what does that mean?
<p_l> nabataeus: it's an unfinished (but usable in production) system that runs Genera 8.5 on top of Alpha CPU running Digital Unix (POSIX = "Open Systems" at the time)
<nabataeus> That's neat.
<nabataeus> p_l: Have you gotten any luck trying to run one?
<p_l> nabataeus: yes, it's been pretty popular for a time to use hacked-up versions that run on amd64, the range of bugs can be subtle though
<p_l> and not all software will work, as OpenGenera never actually hit planned 1.0, despite 1.0 and 2.0 being sold, and some software expects presence of old console interface (whereas OpenGenera only exposes a newer API that not all applications migrated to)
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<nabataeus> Hm
<bitmapper> also a bit buggy
<bitmapper> i hit a microcode error while writing tetris
<nabataeus> How is the machine emulated?
<bitmapper> on alpha or on x86_64?
<nabataeus> On x86_64
<bitmapper> the x86_64 emulator was made by writing a program that translates alpha pseudo-assembly into C, and then just translating the alpha emulator
<nabataeus> Never heard of pseudo-assembly.
<nabataeus> But I think their 'Genera Concepts' guide would better explain this. Either ways thanks for your time o/
<bitmapper> well, it's not a specific thing
<bitmapper> nabataeus: nah it won't
<bitmapper> i say pseudo-assembly because it's an encoding of assembly in lisp
<p_l> nabataeus: VLM (Virtual Lisp Machine) essentially treated Alpha CPU as microcode engine
<p_l> nabataeus: and using fine-tuned assembly implemented microcode engine for modified version of Ivory CPU (binaries between Ivory revs 0-4 and rev5 aka VLM are incompatible)
<p_l> there's some C code which was taken from MacIvory/UX series code, except instead of talking to expansion board with real Ivory CPU it talks to the microcode engine
<p_l> from hw other than CPU, the system presented is equivalent to UX-series symbolics lisp machines
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<adlai> nabataeus: there is still a teeny tiny market for the actual machines themselves, and their peripherals and replacement parts
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<MrtnDk[m]> is Net splitty today?
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<nabataeus> adlai: Yeah I've heard you can contact Symbolics to get your own machine.
<nabataeus> Though it's a bit pricey, isn't it?
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<aeth> "Closos: Specification of a Lisp operating system (2013) [pdf]" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730107
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<anlsh> I need an automatic documentation generator that doesn't produce output that belongs in the 80s, what are my options? Codex fits the bill, but I have some problems with its markup language Scriba
<anlsh> Coo and Staple are broken out of the box for me, Coo just doesn't do anything and Staple only produces empty pages
<anlsh> cldomain seems promising since it would let me leverage Python's sphinx, which people actually use, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to use it
<anlsh> In fact its github page doesn't even link to its own documentation
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<phoe> anlsh: how is Staple broken?
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<anlsh> phoe: In fact it doesn't look like it is. For some reason, when I was trying to use it earlier it was simply generating empty pages without any of the symbols or docstrings in my package. After restarting my lisp image, the issue seems to have gone away
<anlsh> I'm trying to get it to render the markdown in my docstrings now
<phoe> anlsh: I think staple needs to be loaded before your stuff is loaded because that's how it recognizes what *new* stuff has been introduced since it was loaded
<phoe> and what it needs to put in the documentation
<anlsh> Well the README states that "For best immediate results you should not load your system before you load Staple, so that Staple can record the packages the system defines as it is being loaded", but it looks like "best immediate results" should be replaced with "any results at all"
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<anlsh> I guess I thought that it would find the docstrings but not the list of packages
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<TwoNotes> #sbcl
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<jcowan> I would like some help figuring out what a "structure-object introspector" for programmatic use should give access to.
<jcowan> Given a structure-class, what would be useful to extract from it?
<phoe> since a structure-class is a standard object, I guess you can view all of its slots as if you viewed any other standard object
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<phoe> the question is if the MOP says anything about the slots available in CLASS objects, not just STANDARD-CLASS objects
<phoe> ...not really, http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-class.html says nothing in particular
<phoe> so we can't really portably infer anything about the contents of STRUCTURE-CLASS objects by looking at CLASS objects
<phoe> unless you find some other way in the MOP that I am not yet aware of
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<Bike> what you should be looking at is whether class-slots as a method on structure-class (it doesn't). mop doesn't define any standard class's slots
<phoe> or decide to go for some sort of a portability library.
<phoe> Bike: ah, correct!
<Bike> has a method*
<Bike> that said, implementations generally have one as an extension, or have class hierarchy changes for it
<phoe> if slot-value works on all implementations then I guess class-slots should, too
<phoe> s/slot-value/slot-value on structs/
<phoe> even though it's technically UB
<grewal> Is "Common Lisp in the Wild: Deploying Common Lisp Apps with Confidence" by Wimpie Nortje worth buying?
<Bike> slot-value could work even if class-slots doesn't, i suppose
<Bike> don't know why it would be done that way, of course
<phoe> Bike: hence "should"
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<Bike> oh
<phoe> obviously we're already in UB territory, so everything can go
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<ealfonso> is there a webdav client? I only know of cl-webdav, which is a server, and cadaver which is CLI
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