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<iissaacc>
does anyone know why (setf (return-code*) +http-not-found+) gives me the error "the value 404 is not of type sequence"
<iissaacc>
So it seems to be expecting a sequence rather than an integer return code. But the manual and the source code do it the way I have done it
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<Gnuxie[m]>
iissaacc: if it's the last thing you're doing hunchentoot will try write the new value from setf to the response stream
<Gnuxie[m]>
Which you don't want to do
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<Gnuxie[m]>
(You'll want your 404 page instead)
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<iissaacc>
thank you Gnuxie[m]
<iissaacc>
so if i do the setf and then some other expression after, it should work? its to signal "user not found in db"
<iissaacc>
there is probably a better return code to use than 404 for that i guess
<Gnuxie[m]>
Yepp, that string would do for now
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<iissaacc>
chur
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<ldb>
hello
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<Oladon>
Morning beach!
<Oladon>
b
<Oladon>
oops, ^b doesn't work here
<iissaacc>
gidday mate
<iissaacc>
how are we
<beach>
I am fine at least. Today, I need to finish part 2 of my series of presentations for phoe's online Lisp meeting to be streamed on Wednesday.
<iissaacc>
what are you presenting may i ask
<beach>
The series is called "Creating a Common Lisp implementation" and it is about different strategies for structuring such a thing.
<beach>
Part 1 (along with the other past presentations for the online Lisp meeting) is available somewhere.
<iissaacc>
cool, over my head but i'll check it out
<beach>
No, it is not very technical.
<iissaacc>
implementation as in creating another compiler like SBCL?
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<beach>
Compiler and run-time, yes.
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<iissaacc>
is this something you are doing?
<beach>
Yes.
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<beach>
I hope to be able to explain the strategy used by SICL in the last part of the series.
<beach>
minion: Please tell iissaacc about SICL.
<minion>
iissaacc: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
<beach>
minion: Please tell iissaacc about Cleavir.
<minion>
iissaacc: Cleavir: A project to create an implementation-independent compilation framework for Common Lisp. Currently Cleavir is part of SICL, but that might change in the future
<iissaacc>
minion: online meeting
<minion>
please stop playing with me... i am not a toy
<iissaacc>
minion: online Lisp meeting
<minion>
i like lisp... i'm written in it
<beach>
iissaacc: Hold on. I'll find you a link.
<beach>
Actually, you can Google it.
<iissaacc>
can anyone attend this online lisp meeting? ive just handed in my thesis so ive got plenty of time for stuff like that
<beach>
Yes, it is free for anyone to attend.
<iissaacc>
more to spectate than contribute. ive only just started using lisp and im trying to immerse myself in it
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<iissaacc>
cool found a reddit thread
<beach>
The format is: streaming a recording + a text chat.
<beach>
So you can type questions while the presentation is streamed, and the person presenting will hopefully answer in real time.
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<iissaacc>
oh awesome not too late either. ill be there
<beach>
Great!
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<iissaacc>
question: if i use a (loop) in a macro, do the loop-internal variables need to be gensyms?
<iissaacc>
i assume not
<phoe>
iissaacc: how do you use it in a macro?
<phoe>
is it a part of the output code, or do you use it in the macro expander to generate something?
<iissaacc>
iits part of the code that the macro outputs
<beach>
Then you may have capture if some LOOP clause contains code from the macro call, so it is safest to GENSYM.
<iissaacc>
thanks beach, doing it that way
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<Josh_2>
Morning all
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<beach>
Hello Josh_2.
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<jmercouris>
hello everyone
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<loke>
Hello jmercouris
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<phoe>
hey everyone
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<loke>
Hello phoe
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<Harag`>
beach: cl-isolated gives you "safe" access to a subset of cl functionality, I think it would benefit from using eclector (at least the new branch I am workin on), but that said it could most probably be re-imagened using eclector, any advise before I go diving into it head first.
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<beach>
Harag`: I have never heard of cl-isolated, so I would have to first take a look. When it comes to Eclector, it is better to ask scymtym who is the one in charge.
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<Harag`>
beach: cl-isolated just stops the code it reads/processes from accessing "dangerous" cl base functions so that you could for instance use "cl like" code as a scripting language
<shka_>
sounds hackish
<Harag`>
cl-isolated came from code in cl-eval-bot as far as I know
<shka_>
oh, ok
<shka_>
this explains it
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<Harag`>
i got permission to update cl-isolated to not just be a "repl like" tool but more of a scripting language backend with usefully outputs that can be used by the hosting system
<Harag`>
I have a branch of cl-isolated that does this, but it aint pretty, it is now time to either finish the branch properly or diverge completely to something that is purpose build to be "cl-script"
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<beach>
Harag`: I see. Eclector would be perfect for that.
<beach>
Some day, I hope to suggest you use first-class global environments for it as well.
<Harag`>
beach: found the paper you are hinting at, will read it
<beach>
Great! If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
<beach>
You can't really use it as it is, but I hope it will be usable in an arbitrary implementation like that some day.
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<Harag`>
beach: So the jist of it is: implement the functions in the "protocol" section of the paper and have the reader use those instead of the cl ones. Come up with some type of environment specification where you can introduce sanitized or non implementation versions of dangerous cl functions for the "environment". Use that enviroment and the protocol functions to compile/run the code from the user.
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<beach>
Sort of. You also need an evaluator that will evaluate everything in a particular first-class global environments rather than in the default global environment.
<beach>
You can do that by translating the original code so that every reference to a function is in a particular environment.
<beach>
But I haven't done that work (yet) for any implementation other than SICL.
<beach>
I mean, I run SICL code in SBCL in a first-class global environment.
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<Harag`>
for macro's would "translating" the full expantion of the code be enough?
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<beach>
Are you still talking about first-class global environment, or something else?
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<Harag`>
still talking about the same
<beach>
OK, so a first-class global environment contains macro functions, as the protocol indicates. The compiler (or transpiler) compiles the code relative to a first-class global environment, and when it sees (foo ...) it consults the first-class global environment to determine whether FOO is a function, a macro, or a special operator. If it is a macro, it gets the expander from the first-class global environment and applies it.
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<Harag`>
and the expander is responsible for doing any "code translation" to make sure that the environment is "adhered" to...
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<beach>
That's not enough.
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<Harag`>
do you mean that there could be more possible expanding of the expanded code?
<beach>
If the code is a function call, like (bar x), then it has to be translated to (funcall (fcge:fdefinition 'bar environment) x)
<Harag`>
yes got that bit
<beach>
Sure, the compiler will expand until the code is no longer a macro call, as usual.
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<lukego>
Hey how naughty is it to use #C(X Y) complex numbers to represent cartesian coordinates? what's a better way that supports basic arithmetic like + ?
<phoe>
explicit vec2 structs
<phoe>
these will need their own addition operations though
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<beach>
lukego: It is a very good idea.
<beach>
I have done it successfully in a few applications.
<beach>
One for font creation for instance.
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<lukego>
thanks beach
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<Harag`>
beach: so does sicl not basically do all of the above, ie would using sicl for the base of a "cl-script" be the right way to go? Or is it over kill?
<beach>
It is probably overkill. What SICL currently does in the host is it invokes a Cleavir-based compiler that compiles relative to a first-class global environment. Then it turns the code into and AST and then to a graph of intermediate instructions. The intermediate instructions are then interpreted relative to a (possibly different) first-class global environment.
<beach>
This is meant for SICL bootstrapping, and not for sandboxing in the host.
<beach>
So it is slow.
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<Harag`>
ok but the implementatio of the 40 or so functions that make up the protocol could be "lifted" from sicl or is there an issue with their implementation as is?
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<beach>
The protocol is independent of SICL. In fact, we are in the process of extracting and improving it to a separate library.
<beach>
But you still need to write a version of EVAL that takes a first-class global environment in addition to a form and evaluates the form in that environment.
<Harag`>
yes understood, write EVAL to use enviroment.
<Harag`>
is there any way to get a look at the seperate protocol library, pretty please?
<beach>
It doesn't exist yet. jackdaniel just started working on it today.
<beach>
From an incomplete specification.
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<beach>
You can go to the s-expressionists GitHub repositories and look at Clostrum.
<beach>
There should be a Documentation directory there.
<beach>
But it is neither complete nor correct at this point.
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<beach>
Now, Cleavir turns the source into an AST that has all the macros expanded. My guess is that it is not too hard to turn that AST into host code that can be executed relative to a first-class global environment.
<beach>
That would be a large part of such an evaluator.
<beach>
The AST contains nodes of type FDEFINITION-AST, and those could be translated into (fcge:fdefinition 'name environment).
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<beach>
Harag`: If you want to use this stuff I think you need to wait a bit. We have plans to extract the translation to AST into a separate library as well, but using this stuff for things other than SICL bootstrapping is not on top of my list right now. But of course, if someone would like to take on that extraction as a project, I would try to help out.
* Harag`
counting his word very carefully...
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<kg_>
Hey, does anyone know how to run a script through Portacle's copy of SBCL & quicklisp? I've tried `~/portacle/lin/bin/sbcl --script myscript.lisp` but it errors out when I try to call quicklisp in the script.
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<kg_>
Running it within Portacle would also be fine.
<jackdaniel>
how about (load "/path/to/script.lisp") then?
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<kg_>
Yep, juuust figured that out. Not my brightest moment.
<kg_>
Thank you!
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<jackdaniel>
sure
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<jgodbout>
Can't make an automatic sync with gitlab
<jgodbout>
And I'm sick of using libraries 5 years out of date...
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<phoe>
you could use quicklisp releases if you feel like writing a hack for that
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<phoe>
flip214: it seems to me that you have write access to https://github.com/keithj/alexandria/ - could you add a webhook to synchronize this mirror with clnet's gitlab?
<phoe>
I don't think there's point in keeping out-of-date mirrors
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<jgodbout>
yea that one is in fact quite a bit out of date
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<jgodbout>
Repository mirroring allows for mirroring of repositories is a perfect documentation string
<contrapunctus>
jgodbout: the Redundant Department of Redundancy says that water is wet due to its property of wetness. 😏
<Bike>
are you sure that's the definition of control! you're using? no old definitions in the wrong package sticking around? That looks to me like it should work.
<fbmnds>
:bike: I copied it from the editor, thx for the link - phoe: thx for looking into it
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<fbmnds>
bike: I call it from a larger script, I will check for side effects - thx
<Bike>
so the "repl" stuff there isn't actually done in a repl?
<fbmnds>
bike: it's a repl for GCode
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<runix_1>
Hi, should I consider `(some list ,item) constant, like for '(some list item) where in-place modifications are considered undefined behaviour?
<Bike>
yes.
<runix_1>
okay, thanks
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<runix_1>
Hi, are there any pros or cons for using function objects vs symbols as e.g. test functions - example: (assoc "id" *some-alist* :test #'equal) or :test 'equal?
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<jackdaniel>
for standard functions no
<Bike>
using the symbol ensures that it's sensitive to redefinition and stuff. that doesn't matter for standard functions though.
<jackdaniel>
exactly
<Bike>
(and using the function might be very slightly faster, again for non standard functions)
<runix_1>
okay, thanks
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<seok>
how do I set default encoding for strings?
<Bike>
i don't believe there's any standard way to set the default external format
<seok>
Hm
<Bike>
in sbcl there's sb-ext:*default-external-format*
<Bike>
no idea about other implementations
<seok>
I am using sbcl but cannot find sb-ext:*default-external-format*
<Bike>
well, it's in the manual, and it's in my sbcl which is several months old.