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<kc5tja>
Hello; I'm a new-comer to Common Lisp (using SBCL). I'm attempting to make a macro which synthesizes a keyword symbol from two strings. For example, if I have two strings ABC and DEF, I'd like to create a keyword :ABCDEF.
<kc5tja>
Nothing I've tried so far seems to work (make-symbol...) (eval (format nil ":~A~A"...)) etc.
<kc5tja>
Any ideas?
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<tychoish>
kc5tja: I think you can do something weird interning (intern "thing" "KEYWORD")
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<dlowe>
no macro required, even
<tychoish>
true!
<kc5tja>
Ahh, sweet! I wasn't aware that intern took a package parameter. Just looked it up on the hyperspec. I think this will do the trick. Thanks!!
<kc5tja>
dlowe: Well, I was trying to minimize the scope of the problem I'm running into. The macro is to replace a (when) form intended to dispatch on keycode handling in a cl-sdl2 game I'm trying to write. And failing. hard.
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<dlowe>
kc5tja: use macroexpand-1 to expand your new macro and then debug that code :) good luck.
<kc5tja>
I did that; it is textually the same. This is what baffles me.
<tychoish>
why are you trying to replace a when form?
<kc5tja>
I'm going to meditate on this over a sub sandwich. I'm positive it's going to be something really silly.
<kc5tja>
:)
<kc5tja>
There are going to be numerous when forms, all structurally similar.
<kc5tja>
I don't really *have* to, but I just think it cleans up the code.
<kc5tja>
brb; grabbing food. Thanks all for looking and helping. It is appreciated!
<tychoish>
I wouldn't try and refactor so soon/early in a process. also if key events are objects, I'd just write methods and the dispatcher handle the low level stuff
<tychoish>
disclaimer: I'm just a guy, and also something of a newb myself, there might be better idioms for this too.
<White_Flame>
kc5tja: "scancode-~a" vs "SCANCODE-~a" is likely your problem
<White_Flame>
(symbol-name :scancode-w) shows that the actual interned string has been uppercased, which is the reader's default behavior as it consumes your source code
<White_Flame>
manually interning a string does not change its case
<White_Flame>
tychoish: multiple keys could be pressed for diagonals, while a COND would only process the first one matched
<tychoish>
oh good call
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<White_Flame>
ah, although this might be edge triggered and dealing with 1 key event at a time, so you might be right
<tychoish>
it sure looks like the cond/when thing would be equivalent in that regard
<tychoish>
I also haven't really done this kind of event-based thing ever
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<kc5tja>
White_Flame: Yes! That was the issue! Thank you for pointing that out.
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<adlai>
perfect timing, beach, I have just poured myself my first mug of coffee
<beach>
Good! I am working on one myself.
* adlai
wonders at the marvels of ASDF fasl translations, that have caused fresh bugs to appear upon reboot
* adlai
wonders why ASDF has no force-compile restart
<adlai>
e.g., in this case, I "fixed the bug" by doing a force-compile-system on the specific system in which the error was signalled, followed by a regular load-op on the initially loaded system,
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<White_Flame>
I presonally use rm -rf ~/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl*/home/white-flame/git
<White_Flame>
which keeps all the quicklisp fasls intact
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<adlai>
the error message seemed to suggest that there was some fasl without an in-package form at its start; I was getting a failure to find a symbol, with a name from the internals of a dependency project, in the package that I had at the SLIME REPL
<shangul>
lispshell.surge.sh <- A free shell server with many CL implementations and related tools installed.
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* adlai
is puzzled at how a static CDN can deliver shell access?
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<adlai>
oh, that page is just the contact info for requesting shell access >_<
<adlai>
shangul: you are using that service for your experiments, instead of running CL locally?
* adlai
should probably not request an account, since he arguably is past the "wants to learn programming" stage, having reached the "regrets ever learning" stage
<shangul>
adlai, For experiments, unless I they are ARM specific, I use my laptop. But not always I have my laptop with myself.
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<shangul>
Also this is for people other than myself. Installing SLIME in Windows is not easy and straightforward. Also users can try this before actually running Linux on their computer with other tools installed.
<shangul>
adlai, Another usage of my server is bypassing firewall blocks. I run sshd on port 443 instead of 22. So you can connect to it from anywhere(sometimes port 22 on some internet connections for example in hotels is blocked)
<shangul>
You can connect to my server and from there connect to anywhere you want.
<adlai>
one last clarification question, and then if I have further questions, I'd rather discuss this issue in PM to unclutter the channel logs:
<shangul>
I am emailing this to my friend
<shangul>
adlai, feel free to PM me.
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<adlai>
the "soft limits" that are outlined in that landing page include a total CPU time, is that per a certain denominator of wall clock time, or total total that you can ever use?
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<adlai>
thank you for the offer to PM
<shangul>
I am not sure but I think it is the time which you can use 100% of CPU. After you reach the limit, the CPU usage of your processes will reduce but they won't get stopped. Let me ask in ##linux to make sure.
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<adlai>
aha, there is indeed no call to cl:in-package at the start of chanl's shim src/trivial-cas.lisp
* adlai
wonders what to do about this, since the shim is currently loaded ~before~ the package.lisp
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<shangul>
Has anyone got a lisp related domain so that they can give me a subdomain?
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<z3t0>
shangul: I don't have one. But just curious, what are you planning on using it for?
<shangul>
z3t0, lispshell.surge.sh
<z3t0>
Ah, that's a really amazing initiative! Thank you for doing it.
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<jackdaniel>
is there a way to create a reference to the forward-referenced-class without calling (defclass foo (forward-class) ()) and accessing superclasses of foo?
<jackdaniel>
(it's not super important, I'm just curious)
<beach>
You should be able to use the underlying infrastructure. Like ensure-class, or make-instance in the worst case.
<jackdaniel>
ah, right, and that even works, thank you :)
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<Xach>
well
<Xach>
it turns out my builds were failing because i could not require sb-posix at .asd load time
<Xach>
fixed!
<tychoish>
\o/
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<JohnTalent>
Why isn't Lisp in the top 20 TIOBE? It's insanity.
<bitmapper>
it used to be
<bitmapper>
used to be #2
<phoe>
JohnTalent: USA DoD pulling out the plug
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<aeth>
JohnTalent: In short, TIOBE is possibly one of the least reliable metrics of programming language popularity. Unfortunately, TIOBE persists through the years, and the slightly-better websites with brutal takedowns of TIOBE's methodology do not.
<tychoish>
the surprising thing is that it was 6 in 2000, I suspect.
<aeth>
It's essentially an impossible task, and whichever subset you use will bias you towards different things, like educational software, commercial software, new/trendy web software (Github popularity), etc.
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<aeth>
On Github, JavaScript's the #1 language, in banks COBOL might still be the #1 language. How do you come up with something that reliably measures Github activity and bank activity? You don't. Especially banks.
<tychoish>
depends a lot on the bank.
<aeth>
Every field has its own language. Gamedev is a C++ monoculture, with a bit of Lua scripting sprinkled in. Microsoftland is full of C#, but nowhere else uses it. Machine learning is dominated by Python. There's no way to reliably measure cross-field use of programming language popularity, and do you even want to?
<aeth>
The languages you're forced to use for Android or iOS are probably pretty popular because of Android and iOS, but there's basically no reason to use them in environments where you get to choose.
<aeth>
In particular, TIOBE severely underestimates the popularity of JavaScript because it's mostly search-based, while sites that are e.g. Github based will probably overestimate it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19767961
<aeth>
IMO, the more useful metric of a language's popularity is the size of its library repositories -- in Common Lisp's case, Quicklisp. This will still hurt languages like COBOL or C# where commercial middleware is more of a thing and FOSS was adopted late, but if you're not willing to pay for commercial middleware, it's probably more useful to you the programmer.
<aeth>
It still won't quite work out *quite* right because JS culture prefers microlibraries like is-even.
<aeth>
(And some languages like Scheme require a few dozen libraries just to catch up with what CL ships with.)
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<aeth>
Btw, TIOBE contains entries both "Lisp" and "Common Lisp", and ranks Common Lisp substantially lower, which shows that it is completely clueless with respect to Lisp. There is no "Lisp", unless they want to suggest that LISP 1.5 is extremely more popular than Common Lisp.
<aeth>
s/both/for both/
<bitmapper>
ahh
<bitmapper>
this debate again
<bitmapper>
anyway, TIOBE is based on search engine results
<aeth>
Which means that TIOBE's basically just noise since Google locked down their algorithms and API a decade ago.
<aeth>
Google no longer gives you an accurate indication of results, and can't, really, since it's so customized.
<aeth>
And I can search a quote from a webpage, verbatim, in quotes, that I know exists and is indexed, and sometimes won't get the result. Google doesn't care for low volume searches, and often gives either you nothing or a completely irrelevant thing it thinks you meant.
<aeth>
s/either you/you either/
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<aeth>
The most entertaining thing, though, is searching for an error message and getting the source code file containing the error message as the only result.
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<Josh_2>
Hi all
<phoe>
heyy
<Josh_2>
Is there a way for me to define classes in a way that isn't at the top level?
<Josh_2>
the library jonathan requires classes in order to output json objects that aren't just arrays
<Josh_2>
the method %to-json is extended so I can output closs classes as JSON
<rumbler31>
you mean define classes at runtime?
<rumbler31>
or, later in compile time?
<Josh_2>
compile time I think
<rumbler31>
well I mean... when does it need to exist
<rumbler31>
do you have some example code you're trying to make work?
<rumbler31>
well so I mean, why do you need it not at the toplevel
<rumbler31>
are you needing to create new object definitions at runtime?
<phoe>
you can DEFCLASS anywhere you'd like, including IF branches and such
<phoe>
oooh, like that
<Josh_2>
eh
<Josh_2>
I don't think this is the best way to implement what I'm trying to do
<Josh_2>
I think I will just make a nice wrapper for defclass and defmethod and just write things out by hand oof
<rumbler31>
I've literally done this exact thing before, what do you think is wrong with it?
<Josh_2>
Well what I have done works for 1 level of class definitions
<Josh_2>
doesn't work with nested definitions
<Josh_2>
anyway I think I will try a different approach
<Josh_2>
Sorry for wasting y'alls time
<rumbler31>
wait, you mean that one member of a class is actually another class?
<Josh_2>
In the example *test* there is a list that looks like ("identifier" ("type" "m.id.user")("user" "cheeky-monkey")) this would be another class definition
<Josh_2>
so it would make another class associated with the name "identifier" with the two slots, and then the level above would have a slot definition like (identifier :type identifier :accessor identifier) if that makes sense
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<pve>
Josh_2: could you have just one class for everything with a properties slots?
<rumbler31>
right, I've done that too... you just need to call your list to class definition again, and store the defclass call in a list that gets evaluated later, or in whichever order you need to do
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<Josh_2>
rumbler31: well I could do it easy If I used eval
<asarch>
What can I do when I am evaluating a thread and something fails and it renders into the debug state of SBCL?
<asarch>
"#<THREAD "cl-cffi-gtk main thread" RUNNING {1007D01A43}>:"
<rumbler31>
don't need eval I don't think
<asarch>
If I press Ctrl+D in order to exit SBCL, it doesn't work
<Josh_2>
pve: I don't think I can do that because of the way the jonathan library creates JSON from instances of CLOS classes
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<rumbler31>
a function that goes through slots to detect slots that have a type field, and then sends that slot to to your list to class definition call, storing the results, right?
<Josh_2>
oof I could just preprocess the list looking for nested classes and defining them first
<rumbler31>
finally reversing the list of class definitions so that they are defined before they're used (if that's even necessary)
<rumbler31>
yes
<Josh_2>
this wont' have any effect on runtime speed so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<Josh_2>
okay I will try that
<asarch>
debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-TYPE-ERROR in thread
<asarch>
#<THREAD "cl-cffi-gtk main thread" RUNNING {1007D08023}>:
<asarch>
1 is not a string designator.
<rumbler31>
I got around this by instead of defining subclasses I just used the slot names as a new in place struct, but I just ran an expansion function that took the initial list and detected a new subtype list, and returned the results of the recursive call
<asarch>
The current thread is not at the foreground,
<asarch>
SB-THREAD:RELEASE-FOREGROUND has to be called in #<SB-THREAD:THREAD "main thread" RUNNING {10009C8083}>
<asarch>
for this thread to enter the debugger.
<Josh_2>
rumbler31: I think I will try something a long these lines
<rumbler31>
you might I guess want to be able to reuse subclasses in individual %to-json methods so that wont work for you
<phoe>
asarch: that's a type error
<asarch>
If I try to evaluate something, e.g. (sb-ext:exit), it simply doesn't work
<phoe>
go to that thread and check the backtrace to see where it blew up.
<asarch>
How?
<Josh_2>
I might just have to define some classes manually
<phoe>
asarch: are you using slime?
<phoe>
slime should install its own debugger hook so you get the backtrace in the slime debugger
<asarch>
No, SBCL directly from CLI: sbcl --load workspace.lisp
<phoe>
asarch: then do as you are told - call SB-THREAD:RELEASE-FOREGROUND from your main thread
<phoe>
once that's done, use the SBCL debugger to print the backtrace
<phoe>
and debug from there
<asarch>
(funcall SB-THREAD:RELEASE-FOREGROUND)?
<phoe>
(SB-THREAD:RELEASE-FOREGROUND)
<phoe>
in the main thread
<asarch>
Gotcha!
<asarch>
Thank you!
<asarch>
I usually type Ctrl+Z to "release" it :-P
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<asarch>
My log is corrupted :'-(
<asarch>
How do you convert 1 into "1"?
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<Xach>
asarch: so many ways
<asarch>
Thank you!
<Xach>
asarch: princ-to-string, prin1-to-string, format are a few
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<asarch>
I wonder why not just (string 1)
<asarch>
Anyway
<phoe>
because it doesn't work
<asarch>
Thank you very much! :-)
<phoe>
because #'CL:STRING accepts string designators, and a number isn't one
<phoe>
because who knows why
<asarch>
I know
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<asarch>
It is just, most of OO languages have the String object for string operations
<asarch>
let name = new String(12312);
<phoe>
in Lisp, this isn't as simple as that
<phoe>
things often can be printed in multiple ways, readably/unreadably, numeric settings for float, yadda yadda formatting stuff
<phoe>
prin1-to-string and princ-to-string is what you usually want
<phoe>
also, there's no "String object" in Lisp, and Lisp strings aren't standard objects that you can MAKE-INSTANCE of
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<Bike>
i don't think coercing things to strings has anything to do with object orientation.
<phoe>
^
<Bike>
doing it with numbers is nontrivial. there's selection of base, whether you want a separator, some localization concerns like what you use for a separator, bla bla bla
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<phoe>
nah it's easy, you just do String number = new NumberStringBuilder(2).base(10).separator(',').decimalPlaces(4, 2, '0').build();
<Bike>
in java it would be toString, except i don't think that works with ints since they're not objects
<phoe>
new Integer(2);
<Bike>
oh, you do Integer.toString(whatever) instead of whatever.toString()
<phoe>
everything is a java object if you believe hard enough
<aeth>
In CL, there's very little special treatment for strings because most of the time, they're just treated as arrays or sequences instead.
<aeth>
Some languages can have very elaborate special treatment there.
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<aeth>
integer to string is pretty trivial most of the time
<aeth>
floating point to string is a nightmare
<aeth>
I usually use FORMAT to turn numbers into strings even in parts of code that otherwise stylistically don't use FORMAT. This, of course, assumes that the Lisp implementation correctly is handling the floating point issues.
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<asarch>
movl %eax, "This is a test!"
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<Bike>
that's not an actual runtime operation, your assembler just converts the string into bytes by whatever means.
<Bike>
i guess assemblers probably have to support unicode and stuff now? ech.
<Bike>
well, storing the address in the register might actually happen though.
<phoe>
movlcnvutf8utf16be %eax, "what the hell"
<Bike>
wasn't that the king of the north sea empire?
<asarch>
movl %ebx, "こんいちわ！"
<asarch>
brb!
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<aeth>
As far as Unicode goes, I personally prefer just adding in an "é" to see what happens.
<aeth>
The most wrong answer is if it uses an encoding that isn't Unicode, I guess
<Bike>
well that one's in latin-1
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