ChanServ changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/>
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<nij> How about this? (assoc 'a '((a . 1) (b . 2) (c . 3))) ; => (A . 1)
<nij> (assoc "a" '(("a" . 1) ("b" . 2) ("c" . 3)) :test #'string=) ;=> ("a" . 1) ;; http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-lists-other-uses-for-cons-cells.html
<dieggsy> _death: neat, thanks
<dieggsy> _death: oh wait, that's basically just an assoc
<mmontone> @dieggsy you can have a look at assoc-utils library
<dieggsy> i think i can really only depend on Alexandria, Arnesi, ASDF.
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<nij> etimmons: Thanks for getting back to me. Here's the problem.
<nij> If you run (uiop:run-program "/usr/bin/python" :output :interactive :input :interactive) in an sbcl openned in a terminal emulator, you get a working python repl WITHIN your lisp repl.
<nij> However, if you run that in sly, then it hangs. The SLY-SLYNK protocol seems to handle usual standard i/o, but not when you call :intermediate.
<nij> I think it also happens to slime-swank too. Lemme try later today.
<etimmons> In slime your REPL would no longer work, but you'd be able to run other slime commands.
<etimmons> The REPL thread is blocked by the run-program and will remain that way until python dies.
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<etimmons> I assume slynk is similar
<etimmons> :interactive means that python would inherit the processes stdout and stdin (notably not the same thing as standard-output and standard-input)
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<saturn2> for that to work, slime would have to create a pty
<saturn2> very messy and unportable
<nij> However, if you do this in inferior-lisp, it works perfectly fine.
<nij> So the problem really lies in the bridge between SLY and SLYNK, or SLIME and SWANK.
<nij> Given that it's working in inferior-lisp, I think it should not be hard to fix.. but I have to first understand the nature of :interactive. What makes it different? Why doesn't SLY-SLYNK protocol deal with it well?
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<etimmons> I think it would be extremely hard to make it work with :interactive.
<etimmons> It literally passes the file descriptor for SBCL's stdin/stdout to the subprocess. That's very low level stuff
<nij> That's actually my point - it's passed into the subprocess, but inferior-lisp correctly handles it.
<nij> Sly and slime are based on inferior-lisp, so the low-level part has been done already.
<etimmons> Because that is attached to the lisp process' stdin/out
<etimmons> No
<nij> As an example, run `M-x inferior-lisp`, and in which run (uiop:run-program "/usr/bin/python" :output :interactive :input :interactive) .. you still get a working python repl.
<nij> ?!
<etimmons> Sly and slime use a network connection to pass data back and forth between emacs and lisp
<nij> Correct ^
<etimmons> The only thing slime does with inferior-lisp is start the lisp and send a form to start the network server
<etimmons> Interior lisp is used for nothing else beyond that
<nij> Slime can also handle i/o between it with inferior-lisp well, right?
<etimmons> And it's not even required because you can start a lisp process yourself, start the network server yourself, and then connect to it from emacs all without an inferior-lisp buffer
<etimmons> To the best of my knowledge, no
<nij> .. hmm I run (uiop:run-program "sudo pacman -Q" :output *standard-output*) in sly and it outputs correctly.
<nij> That means at least some i/o is handled..
<nij> It's very strange, then, to me, as why the i/o from :interactive doesn't work.
<nij> Surely it has arrived inferior-lisp correcty. The working python repl in it is a proof.
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<etimmons> *standard-output* is bound to a stream that sly can read from and then send the bits that get written to it to your emacs
<etimmons> It is not the same thing as :interactive
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<nij> Good morning beach :)
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<markasoftware> are we going to libera?
<phadthai> some of us are there
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<nij> etimmons I see. Is there way to "combine" *standard-output* and :interactive?
<nij> I might have to hack uiop:run-program for this.. but.. I might need some hint.
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* Lycurgus notes a bunch of channels (e.g. the wiki and haskell ones) are already moving to libera
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<nij> :-O what should we/I do to move there?
<pjb> use irc.libera.chat instead of irc.freenode.org
<pjb> How, will depend on your irc client.
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<pjb> if erc, M-x customize-variable RET erc-server RET may be all it takes.
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<McParen> If you have a registered nick, you will have to register it there too. The nickserv data has apparently not been copied over.
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<hhdave> hello?
<hhdave> Hmm - that's odd. I can't seem to send any message on irc.libera.chat. Works here though.
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<jackdaniel> we can't see your messages here either
<jackdaniel> ,)
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<McParen> jackdaniel: Do you know if you or one of the other opers will register the other channel to prevent some kind of takeover?
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<jackdaniel> #commonlisp has been registered, #lisp doesn't have currently op (because someone joined then left while the room was not empty) but global opers were contacted by phoe for an op
<jackdaniel> so I gather that the issue will be resolved after the initial storm
<jackdaniel> as of #clim and #ecl, both channels are registered
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<McParen> thats reassuring, I didnt expect the migration to get so messy.
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<jackdaniel> changing something that has been constant for at least a decade is not a trivial matter (as _death pointed out yesterday)
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<ecraven> hhdave: maybe some channels are +r (registered users only), there was some problem with spam yesterday
<hhdave> there was, but I am registered. I've signed in from ERC instead of Colloquy and it's working fine. It's odd though, because Colloquy is working ok here (it's what I'm using). Very strange.
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<sysadmin> This channel will be terminated. Any nicks remaining in the channel will also be terminated. This action cannot be undone. Please /connect to irc.butt.es and /join #gamme for more information.
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<jackdaniel> uh oh, a new falange of spam
sysadmin was banned on #lisp by jackdaniel [*!*McCafe@23.108.51.*]
sysadmin was kicked from #lisp by jackdaniel [farewell]
<jackdaniel> that was cute nonetheless
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<jmercouris> hello everyone, a new Nyxt is out: https://nyxt.atlas.engineer/article/release-2.0.0.org
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<phoe> nice!
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<dieggsy> so at work people use a mix of tabs and spaces to indent code, which makes it look all wonky on my emacs lol
<dieggsy> is there a particular emacs setup i can do so that this mixed indentation looks like normal lisp indentation
<dieggsy> ah, leaving the default tab-width at 8 seems to fix it back up ...visually anyay heh
<aeth> It's actually the default behavior for Emacs and one of the first things most people change when they set up a .emacs so... Emacs absolutely should be able to handle that.
<aeth> (well, not for Lisp)
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<dieggsy> aeth: yeah, i had changed tab-width to 4 (though i don't actually use tab characters at all for indentation) which caused a visual difference between what i saw and what my coworkers saw
<dieggsy> i think most of them use fairly stock emacs
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<ComCat> Hi ops. You can also redirect this channel to ##moved_to_libera. Do that before you leave the network please. But please update the topic at least. Keep the community together under no corrupted rule. Libera is registered as non-profit and all the old staffers and volunteers are there. Sponsors are pulling out from freenode btw. A few of them were staffers, so they're at libera as well.
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<Shinmera> What does it mean to "redirect a channel"
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<IIsi50MHz> Changing the /topic makes sense. Redirecting to an offtopic channel to use that channel as a handle seems unnecessary.
<aeth> has cliki been updated?
<aeth> Doesn't look like it. https://www.cliki.net/IRC
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<scymtym> can we wait a bit longer? i don't think the new channels are logged yet for one thing
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<ComCat> IMPORTANT NOTICE: Hi Ops. Please update the topic to point to the new server (libera.chat). Thank you. Current situation: crown prince of korea and co-founder of MtGox (bitcoin exit-scam) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox#Bankruptcy;_stolen_bitcoin_(2014%E2%80%93ongoing) - has now full control over Freenode and has destaffed ALL the staffers you knew. The staffers have founded and moved
<ComCat> to Libera.chat. Sponsors of Freenode are beginning to pull out, it is unknown for how long the freenode will be stable. Most channels, projects and users are now migrating to Libera. Libera is a registered non-profit organization with mitigations against this disaster happening ever again. Leaked chats showing disgusting intents and former devs that have worked with Mr.Lee before says that he's disorganized, dishonest and that they wish to never
<ComCat> work with him again (he managed to scam freenode out of our hands and he lied to the staffers). All officiall freenode channels are now currently under complete censorship. https://distfiles.dereferenced.org/stuff/nirvana-log.txt - https://paste.sr.ht/~ircwright/7e751d2162e4eb27cba25f6f8893c1f38930f7c4 - Please update your topic to point to the new server if you haven't done so already. This message is to inform the users about the situation if
<ComCat> the topic is set already. Spread this message too.
<|3b|> with the amount of "move to libera" spam, libera is starting to seem less like a good alternative :/
<aeth> that's counterproductive, definitely
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<jcowan> It's very temporary. Soon the Korean Empire and the Not That Free Republic should be quite separate
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<jcowan> I also feel confident that ComCat isn't a libera staffer
<waleee-cl> "Not That Free Republic"?
<waleee-cl> (I get that it's libera you're refering to, but not quite how)
<waleee-cl> Wordplay on liberia?
<jcowan> Yes basically
<jcowan> Also FreeRepublic.com ("Freep") is a strongly right-wing web site
<jcowan> hence "Not That"
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<waleee-cl> ok, that was a much nicer image :)
<IIsi50MHz> Yeah, it seemed to me like "not-that-free republic", rather than "not THAT free republic". Glad of the clarification.
<jcowan> Ah, I missed it. Shoulda translated it into Lojban
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<curiouslisper> So has everybody decided to jump ship for unknown reasons because admins have jumped ship for unknown reasons?
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<curiouslisper> I'm not sure of moving to libera where it is staffed by people who dont know why they left except that the person who bullied the former head of staff out said they should.
<curiouslisper> the same guy accusing the owner of a domain name of dictatorship after locking the guy out of freenode and spamming freenode for everybody to leave.
<IIsi50MHz> That's...an interesting take on it.
<White_Flame> the resignation notices did not state unknown reasons
* IIsi50MHz should bother to read the resignation letters
<White_Flame> yes, there will be he said/she said about it,but yeah
<curiouslisper> i have read all the resignation letters
<curiouslisper> most are unsure what is happening, what will happen, or what exactly they have lost control over.
<White_Flame> the 3rd part is clear
<curiouslisper> Well, the domain name.
<White_Flame> no, operation of the irc network
<White_Flame> which wasn't supposed to follow the ltd corp
<curiouslisper> they were still operating it until they resigned.
<White_Flame> that's unclear
<curiouslisper> if you can ban the domain owner you still have operational control.
<White_Flame> also, legal threats to turn things over are claimed to have happened
<White_Flame> (turn over to freenode ltd)
<curiouslisper> read the irc logs as well
<curiouslisper> the admins sought legal council, the owner didn't threaten legal action.
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<curiouslisper> I mean, just read the recent spam.  It's a bit hyperbolic.
<curiouslisper> and reads more like FUD
<White_Flame> that it does
<IIsi50MHz> Given Lee's history, I'll admit to some U&D.
<White_Flame> also, your nick wasn't on here when the spam was posted?
<curiouslisper> I usually just browse the logs.
<curiouslisper> but then noticed a blank page and became curious
<curiouslisper> i can see the user list now, so i guess people aren't being overly dramatic and hysterical.
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<White_Flame> blank page?
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<White_Flame> ah
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<curiouslisper> Well, i guess if people haven't jumped ship I can go back to just quietly reading the logs. and just saw there's a lot more admins that haven't resigned, just a small group.
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