jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | offtopic --> #lispcafe
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<phoe> morning
<beach> Hello phoe. How are you feeling today?
<phoe> I think all the Pfizer side effects are gone, I'm at 100% today
<beach> Congratulations!
<phoe> thanks - next chance to feel ill in five weeks from now
<beach> For dose #2?
<phoe> yes
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<lukego> anyone use c-mera? I'm not quite sure what to make of it yet
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<no-defun-allowed> But why?
<lukego> me? I'd like to do a little ad-hoc assembler code generation in Lisp at the moment, and SBCL's interface seems a bit too unstable (examples from the blogoverse didn't work), and that lead me to asmjit, which takes its inputs via C++ code. So I'm looking for a nice way to output C++ source and wondering if c-mera is more practical than FORMAT for my purposes.
<phoe> isn't C-Mera C and not C++?
<phoe> I mean, it's close enough, but still
<lukego> no it does C, C++, CUDA, etc as separate modules.
<phoe> I see, TIL
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<lukego> but not all syntax maps so nicely e.g. x86::rax becomes (from-namespace x86 rax) which is pretty verbose and it feels a bit like non-verbosity is the main selling point here
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<lukego> So it seems like I'll end up with my own doman-specific surface syntax anyway, e.g. simply :RAX, and at that point I'm not sure c-mera buys me anything over FORMAT especially in combination with a C++ pretty-printer like clang-fmt
<lukego> having toyed with c-mera for ten minutes maybe I'll now try the ad-hoc route and come back if that feels bothersome.
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<ym> Sup. How do I suppress slime's REPL buffer output?
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<Shinmera> like, prevent anything from being printed, or?
<beach> So instead of a REPL, it's a REL.
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<nij> Hello! I have made a thread that calls run-program (bt:make-thread (lambda () (uiop:run-program "/some/process/that/loops" :output *sta..))).
<phoe> nij: OK, what about it?
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<nij> However, I don't know how to kill the looping shell process in lisp.. destroying the thread does not help.
<nij> In particular, the process is ffmpeg. I can kill it by `pkill ffmpeg`.. but I hope to do that in a lispy way.
<phoe> if it doesn't stop on stream EOF, then sending it a unix signal of sorts might be needed
<nij> Oh.. so PID must be recorded when calling run-program?
<phoe> I think so, yes - and AFAIK then RUN-PROGRAM and/or LAUNCH-PROGRAM is capable of returning a process information sort of structure
<phoe> and that includes PID
<nij> Can I "bind" the thread and the pid, so that when the thread dies, the program dies?
<phoe> it's the other way around
<phoe> the program quits, *then* the thread finishes
<phoe> if you mean bt:destroy-thread then it *won't* work - it is only supposed to be used as a last measure
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<jdz> nij: For that you need process groups or somesuch.
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<jdz> nij: You may want to check the :WAIT parameter to RUN-PROGRAM.
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<nij> jdz: what is a process group?
<jdz> nij: Something you should read about if you are going to do UNIX process management.
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<nij> I see. I think uiop doesn't have that much. But sbcl does.. I will use sb's instead.
<nij> No :wait, no mentioning process group.. etc https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/uiop.html
<nij> Goodbye, portable code ;)
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<jdz> nij: Nowadays you might want to skip straight to cgroups (if you're on reasonably recent Linux, that is).
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<nij> Can't find what cgroups are except a youtube vid. Not in sbcl's manual either.
<jdz> Of course, they're a Linux thing.
<jdz> Nothing about process management is (or can be) lisp specific.
<jdz> You really did not find https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cgroups ?
<Nilby> (defcfun kill :int (pid pid-t) (signal :int)))
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<nij> jdz: I bound cgroups with lisp/common lisp .. etc
<nij> and started searching "control groups common lisp", "control groups sbcl".. etc.
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<nij> Thanks, I will look into that.
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<ym> Shinmera, yes, preventing from being printed.
<Shinmera> bind *standard-output* to an empty broadcast stream
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<jdz> I wonder if somebody has written some fiction that features a universe (or a pocket dimension or whatever) that contains the bits directed to /dev/null and empty broadcast streams.
<jdz> Maybe a game?
<nij> Hmm.. though sb-ext:run-program provides more than uiop:run-program.. it seems that sb-ext:run-program does it asynchronously.. :(
<jdz> I'd suggest to not use uiop:run-program at all.
<ym> Shinmera, kludgy, but works, thanks.
<jdz> Especially from threads.
<Shinmera> ym: how is it kludgy
<ym> Well, writing (with-output-to-string (str) (let ((*standard-output* str)) ... )) each time feels sort of kludge.
<Shinmera> huh?
<Shinmera> that's not what I said, though.
<jdz> clhs make-broadcast-stream
<phoe> ym: you don't need to collect to a string
<phoe> you can just discard all output - that's what an empty broadcast stream does
<phoe> (let ((*s-o* (m-b-s))) ...)
<ym> Doesn't suppress output in my case.
<ym> Doh. I can just use progn with nil in the end.
<ym> Stupid me.
<Shinmera> or (not ...)
<Nilby> or (values)
<Shinmera> that would require the progn again.
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<jdz> ym: That's not output that needs suppressing, but return value.
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<nij> jdz: if you don't use uiop:run-program, what do you use? sb-ext:run-program?
<jdz> Yes.
<jdz> Or an equivalent in other implementations.
<nij> How do you pipe then?
<nij> By throwing the output to input of the next?
<jdz> I don't.
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<jdz> Lisp is not exactly suited for Unix system programming. It can be done, but then it is all about doing syscalls.
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<nij> I see. I will try to avoid piping as you said. If there's a need then I will do proper redirection..
<nij> Thanks.
<jdz> What do you mean by "piping"?
<jdz> And what do you mean by "proper redirection"?
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<jdz> And how was UIOP:RUN-PROGRAM helping you with this "piping"/"proper redirection"?
<Nilby> Lisp is fine for Unix system programming.
<Nilby> (defcfun fork pid-t) (defcfun execve :int (path :pointer) (args :pointer) \
<Nilby> (env :pointer))
<nij> jdz: Using uiop:run-program, I can just pass a dirty string "echo 3 | grep hi" into it.
<Nilby> it's just the unix syscalls that suck in any language
<nij> With sb-ext:run-program, the first argument must be a callable thing, eg "/usr/bin/echo". That restricts (afaik) one sb-ext:run-program form to one callable thing, in contrast to uiop:run-program.
<jdz> Nilby: Yes, everything's fine and dandy until you need some magic numbers that are only available in C headers.
<jdz> nij: You will also find that in that case uiop:run-program uses "sh -c", and then you're in the land of hurt if you fail to properly escape a string or a quote or, god forbid, use strings provided by the user.
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<jdz> nij: I'd suggest to never, ever, invoke a process with a command line constructed by concatenating stings (unless you're very VERY sure nothing bad can happen, which is pretty much never).
<nij> Oh... I see.
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<jdz> Heh, concatenating strings in the context of unix process invocations really is akin to concatenating stings.
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<nij> Heh!
<pjb> ym: (setf *standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream))
<pjb> ym: (setf *terminal-io* (make-two-way-stream (two-way-stream-input-stream *terminal-io*) (make-broadcast-stream)))
<nij> jdz: I've replaced a one-liner with a 20~liner, but it's much safer now! Thanks :)
<pjb> ym: but 1- setting *terminal-io* is not conforming, and 2- it doesn't seem to work in slime-repl anyway, they must circumvent *terminal-io* and use the swank/gray::slime-output-stream directly.
<jdz> nij: If you say so.
<pjb> ym: note, if you want a REP, you can write your own. See for example: https://github.com/informatimago/lisp/blob/master/common-lisp/interactive/interactive.lisp#L181 and patch it to avoid printing.
<pjb> s/REP/REL/
<pjb> jdz: the closest to your fiction, is in Tron, where there are leaked data and free programs.
<pjb> jdz: in Tron, nothing is said of the bits that are garbage collected.
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<pjb> The problem is "When NIL these streams are only temporarily redirected to Emacs using dynamic bindings while handling requests." This combines badly with the notion that a REPL is a continuous process. slime-repl is not. I've posted an issue about a related subject, the + ++ +++ * ** *** / // /// variables.
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<etimmons> nij: UIOP has two functions: run-program and launch-program, equivalent to :wait t and :wait nil respectively. launch-program returns a process object you can use to send signals to
<etimmons> Plus, unrecognized keyword arguments to both are passed directly to the underlying function in the implementation
<etimmons> You might also be interested in https://github.com/ruricolist/cmd/ I've never tried it, but IIRC it was received well on Reddit when it was announced
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<jackdaniel> there is also external-program which is good in this sense that it doesn't try to do more than provide a compatibiliy layer between different implementations
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