<sqgl>
I will be in Berlin in a few weeks (I hope)
<sqgl>
and I am a VJ/DJ that already does combined live-visuals with live-music
<sqgl>
(The same controllers are mapped to control both simultaneously).
<sqgl>
So it may be interesting to meet while in Berlin.
<sqgl>
From your site I see you are into HardCore
<sqgl>
Any other styles?
<sqgl>
lekernel,  Would like to at least see a real-life demo of the m1 when I visit Berlin (since there are no good video demos online)
<sqgl>
I understand there are no m1 users currently in Australia (where I live)
<lekernel>
sure, just ping me a few days before you arrive in Berlin
<lekernel>
I'll be there most of the time during the next weeks.
<sqgl>
Am looking to stay in Berlin for a couple of months.
<lekernel>
alright, should definitely be no problem then :-)
<sqgl>
Am open to collaboration (even coding).
<wolfspraul>
sqgl: I was curious about one thing yesterday I think you didn't answer. the video you linked to, how much time roughly did it take you to produce it?
<lekernel>
regarding styles, I used Milkymist with tons of stuff, even acoustic flamenco :)
<wolfspraul>
I'm trying to understand the VJ working style...
<wolfspraul>
is this something you do in a few hours, few days, few weeks?
<sqgl>
wolfspraul, yeah sorry, I noticed your question too late
<sqgl>
It was done in realtime
<sqgl>
except for the text
<wolfspraul>
how many such videos do you produce, say in a month? or how many such performances?
<sqgl>
I use three Korg NanoKontrols
<sqgl>
Zero per month
<wolfspraul>
do you create new stuff all the time, or polish/prepare a lot?
<sqgl>
That one is old.
<sqgl>
Lots of tweaking
<sqgl>
unfortunately
<sqgl>
Only recently have gotten it to a state I am happy with.
<sqgl>
Now need to make a vido before going to EU.
<lekernel>
sqgl, are you into programming as well?
<sqgl>
Want to combine images of the Traktor workflow along with hands tweaking Korg nano
<sqgl>
I used to be a programmer.
<sqgl>
Gave it up 15 years ago in favour of music.
<sqgl>
Can write C
<sqgl>
Learned PureData
<sqgl>
Most of my "programming" lately has been very complex mapping in Midi-Ox
<sqgl>
which is not fun I can assure you
<sqgl>
wolfspraul, in terms of workflow...
<sqgl>
My DJ'ing style is live mashups, therfore very busy
<sqgl>
I figure if the visuals correspond to the audio tweaking
<wolfspraul>
I am trying to understand the percentage you spend in the studio/lab, vs at a party/stage
<sqgl>
then a listener can understand what is being DJ'd vs what is in the original music
<wolfspraul>
I could imagine some people maybe spend 90% in a studio, prepare a lot, then perform
<sqgl>
wolfspraul, much more in studio/lab than party
<wolfspraul>
others maybe the opposite, just always perform and create stuff there :-)
<sqgl>
At age 46 I am over partying for its own sake.
<sqgl>
And there is hardly anyone performing doing anything interesting.
<sqgl>
Which is why I started SHARE chapter in Sydney
<wolfspraul>
sure I was asking because people have a different approach to this and I was trying to understand yours
<sqgl>
wolfspraul, np
<wolfspraul>
I could see people only creating creating creating, and not so much caring about preparations, or archival/distribution of their creations
<sqgl>
I run two net radio stations
<sqgl>
the idea being that listeners can choose tracks which I download
<sqgl>
and begin remix/mashup even befor ethe downloads are copmlete.
<sqgl>
Sort of like someone throwing random object to a juggler
<sqgl>
The juggler enjoys the process and the objects used are not so important
<sqgl>
The important thing is to make a beautiful show combining the elements.
<sqgl>
Anyhow, that's my thig. There are so many different approaches nowadays.
<sqgl>
wolfspraul, What is your "thing"?
<sqgl>
lekernel, do you make music?
<lekernel>
no, nothing really good *g*
<sqgl>
You are probably like me but the opposite.
<sqgl>
I appreciate coding but do not have time for both coding and music.
<wolfspraul>
sqgl: I was a professional software developer for 15+ years, got bored of it and wondered where all the hardware came from, how it was made etc. So I started exploring the hw side maybe 4-5 years ago.
<wolfspraul>
Decided that I was not interested in the design part, but instead manufacturing. Maybe that's because I mostly drove software development from the testing side as well :-)
<wolfspraul>
so now I'm working on the manufacturing side - sourcing, testing
<sqgl>
wolfspraul, manufacturing is changing so fast that I can understand wanting to specialise just to keep up
<wolfspraul>
not sure. I can see the long waves now, I don't think it's changing fast.
<wolfspraul>
it's like in software, there are long waves too. People still make money from their SQL skills :-)
<lekernel>
think about cobol or fortran :)
<sqgl>
My first few jobs were in fortran
<sqgl>
is it still taught at university?
<wolfspraul>
I was lucky that I was able to move to greater China and work in a lot of factories/companies here, they are freaking good at manufacturing indeed. It's probably a cultural fit between Chinese culture and what is important in manufacturing.
<sqgl>
wolfspraul, moved from where?
<sqgl>
HK
<wolfspraul>
I worked in Connecticut before
<sqgl>
Oh
<wolfspraul>
for 10+ years
<wolfspraul>
the hardware back then was a black box to me, or anybody in the office :-) just a Motorola/Sony Ericsson/etc. prototype coming with fedex...
<sqgl>
Interesting to have the perspective
<wolfspraul>
then we started with the SDK and such, compiler, etc. but I wasn't satisfied with this black box falling from the sky, so I went to shanghai
<wolfspraul>
the direction was right :-)
<wolfspraul>
towards the source, he he
<sqgl>
My major was a triple major electronics/computing/statistics (took only a little biut longer because  many of the courses/subjects did overlap)
<sqgl>
You don't need to bne in Shanghai to study electronics
<sqgl>
But there is a big difference between theory and practicew
<sqgl>
I learned how to make computers starting from sand and gold
<sqgl>
but I graduated not even knowing how to solder properly!
<wolfspraul>
no definitely not. But you need to be inside Chinese factories or OEM offices to understand manufacturing.
<wolfspraul>
the state of manufacturing in Europe/US nowadays is appaling. like 3rd world actually. Just nobody left with the knowledge, no companies, etc.
<wolfspraul>
that'll change though :-)
<sqgl>
It will?
<lekernel>
wolfspraul, this isn't totally true
<sqgl>
Why would it change?
<wolfspraul>
maybe I'm exaggerating. Europe and US are big.
<lekernel>
we could definitely manufacture M1s in France, for example.
<wolfspraul>
and I think it will change
<wolfspraul>
yes definitely, I agree
<wolfspraul>
we will in fact
<sqgl>
I have not been to China
<sqgl>
but have spent much time in India
<sqgl>
and witnessed a huge problem with qulaity control
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: the problem would be to keep the prices down, or in fact even acknowledge first of all that driving prices down aggressively is a worthwhile goal.
<sqgl>
and witnessed a huge problem with quality control
<wolfspraul>
most companies in France right now may give up on that right away, and say "we only do this to some point here, then if we are successful we outsource to China"
<sqgl>
Does Archos manufacture in France or China?
<wolfspraul>
but I think even that will change, we see
<wolfspraul>
manufacturing is a difficult challenge, time and margins are against you and those are typically seen as goals not worthwhile pursuing
<sqgl>
I did study Operations Research
<sqgl>
Even had one contract using OR
<sqgl>
(on production line for telephone manufacturing)
<sqgl>
I don't imagine phones are manufactured in Australia anymore
<sqgl>
I found Operations Research fascinating.
<sqgl>
lekernel, I will be looking for a flat to rent in Berlin for two months.
<sqgl>
I would probably have to share because as a musician I do not have a great income.
<sqgl>
(I enough money saved but I just need to be careful with it).
<sqgl>
I could probably go up to 100EU
<lekernel>
well, given how painful and messy it was for me to get a flat for myself, I'm not exactly one to ask about apartment advice :-)
<sqgl>
Oh, that's discouraging to here :(
<sqgl>
I do have other friends there.
<sqgl>
Will ask them also.
<lekernel>
100E? well, flats in central Berlin are several times more expensive than that
<lekernel>
you may try districts like Merzahn
<sqgl>
Sharing with one or two people 100EU should be possible.
<sqgl>
It was when I was there in 2006
<sqgl>
I don't mind squatting either if the people are recommended and interesting.
<lekernel>
yeah, if you like punks, extreme left-wing activism and dirty places, squatting is an option
<sqgl>
Not my favorite option
<lekernel>
it's not like in Amsterdam in Paris, squats in Berlin are very hardcore
<sqgl>
(am a bit too old to find it "romantic")
<lekernel>
try Merzahn ... I've been there once, and the area and flats looked ok
<lekernel>
(which is a limited experience ...)
<lekernel>
it's a long subway ride though
<sqgl>
Where werew you before Berlin?
<sqgl>
I would sacrifice modern conveniences to be closer to the centre.
<sqgl>
I stayed in Kreuzberg and Mitte before.
<sqgl>
for a month.
<sqgl>
houseminding, renting, sharing, couchsurfing - various combinations.
<sqgl>
lekernel,  where do you live?
<lekernel>
schöneberg
<sqgl>
I flew into there
<lekernel>
berg, not feld
<sqgl>
Ahhh
<sqgl>
Quick look at Wikipedia confused me
<sqgl>
Airport mention must have beenb TempelHoff related
<sqgl>
Do you live in that area which has Hi-Rise surrounded by tiny private gardens
<sqgl>
There was also lots of quiet curvy streets with houses and very very few cars
<sqgl>
tried to remember where that was exactly. Somewhere near Templehof.
<sqgl>
St Joseph Krankenhaus in Tempelhof !
<sqgl>
That was in the midle of that area. Magical town-planning!
<roh>
well.. what parts of it are were planned is afaik still disputed ;)
<lekernel>
roh, if you have a problem, please say something :-)
<sqgl>
I understand Berlin does not allow Google to provide StretView of the city.
<roh>
lekernel: no problem.
<sqgl>
roh, Are you talking about the decommissioned Tempelhof airport site?
<wolfspraul>
roh: hey, good to see you! any news on the cases?
<sqgl>
Any news about that?
<roh>
wolfspraul: progress yes, completed no ;)
<wolfspraul>
that's fine, makes me feel better :-)
<lekernel>
roh, ah, I thought "what parts of it are were planned is afaik still disputed" was about the case ...
<sqgl>
Too much time chatting to strangerse on the other side of the worlkd about town planning? ;)
<wolfspraul>
the cameras are in Taipei already, that's settled
<wolfspraul>
now working on power supplies, need to hurry up on that a little
<roh>
wolfspraul: i still need to get the acryllic and do the lasering, but all the 'small parts shit' is done.. (sourcing, sorting etc) and also the shielding sheeds are 50% completed
<wolfspraul>
and the box, need to hurry up on that as well
<lekernel>
wolfspraul, can you publish Yi's initial box design?
<wolfspraul>
I think most parts are already in Taipei, at least if I look at the bom in the wiki
<wolfspraul>
yes sure, will do very soon. I have to go dig those files out...
<roh>
lekernel: well.. lots of the parts of berlin are more a result of time and people doing stuff and not neccessarily proper 'planning' and concepts which were thought through
<sqgl>
but am wondering if you know if this would also help me with my current video-capturing
<sqgl>
ie Do you think it would allow for smoother captures than the software capturing I have been doing
<wolfspraul>
no idea
<wolfspraul>
sorry, I don't know
<sqgl>
Thank, I'll have to ask around some VJ forums (or perhaps do some calculations, looking at USB bandwidth, HDD rpm etc)
<lekernel>
the best way to capture video would be to encode it on the fpga :-)
<lekernel>
but it needs work
<sqgl>
Surely not until v2
<sqgl>
If I wanted to make a demo with the m1 in Berlin I would need something like that box.
<wolfspraul>
lekernel was also thinking about supporting tv-out over vga, that would make recording easier, but I'm not sure where this stands on the long list of possible new features...
<lekernel>
sqgl, what is "v2"?
<lekernel>
I think it can work with the current hardware
<sqgl>
So you are sriously thinking of including it in the next release?
<sqgl>
What would be the output? USB?
<lekernel>
ethernet
<lekernel>
it's won't be in the "next release" before several months
<lekernel>
unless someone steps up and helps me, of course
<lekernel>
roh, is the agency open this sunday afternoon?
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: there is a demo button in last flikernoise right?
<kristianpaul>
may be i'll have a dorkbot on my town in next month soi was thiking do so out-of-the-box automated ambientation with mm1 and let people play with keyboard shortcuts
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: if you reflash the latest firmware. be default it's boot to 'simple mode'
<kristianpaul>
ok
<xiangfu>
the 'demo button' you mean is for goto next patch in 'simple mode' it's go over all patch one by one, when you press that(the left button, or F11 in keyboard)
<xiangfu>
'simple mode' is good from demo.
<xiangfu>
another you want maybe the keyboard autobuild. which bind the a~z to patches.
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: oh another things is OSC, if you setup m1 network. you can send OSC message from your PC to m1.
<kristianpaul>
sure i use networking all time!
<kristianpaul>
but dunno a OSC client..
<kristianpaul>
( 'simple mode' it's go over all patch one by one) cool !
<xiangfu>
oscsend 192.168.0.14 4444 /osd s "hello from kristianpaul"
<kristianpaul>
lol, let see
<kristianpaul>
install liblo-tools
<kristianpaul>
good
<kristianpaul>
i''ll try later, right now my mm1 is console only mode ;) and really striped out soc (to get 15min sinthesize time !)
<kristianpaul>
thanks xiangfu
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: by default, it's DHCP, so the ip address maybe different. not 42 anymore :)
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: sure.
<kristianpaul>
sure sure, i own my dhcp server np on that
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: :)
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: man that jtag-serial thing is so so wrong
<wolfspraul>
those guys are just massive roadblocks :-)
<wolfspraul>
I fought for every day to get them made in December, fedex to Germany, mail to customers and Bearstech
<wolfspraul>
then totally stuck
<wolfspraul>
bah
<wolfspraul>
let's hope he can do a 3.3v serial solution, and h:d finally delivers what they owe him for 5 months already
<lekernel>
outdated soc? up to date soc? flickernoise? libs?
<kristianpaul>
no idea (source)
<roh>
r
<roh>
e
<lekernel>
roh, s/sunday/monday
<lekernel>
wolfspraul, maybe bearstech and tuxbrain are a bit sloppy at times, but at least they're not complete assholes like many other small electronics distributors I contacted
<lekernel>
e.g. http://mbed.org/order/ has a good list of imbecilic and arrogant people on it
<wolfspraul>
true true. I just want h:d and tuxbrain to do even better :-)
<wolfspraul>
and plus I kinda knew this before, that's why I try to hard to make a complete package when it leaves my direct control.
<wolfspraul>
because I know how terrible hard it is later to send missing things, replace stuff, fix power adapter issues wrt mains connector, and so on
<wolfspraul>
in fact most of the time, even if you sell something, whatever you sold will remain unused in some corner or drawer
<wolfspraul>
so I will continue to make a complete package that will not leave this kind of opportunity for failure...
<wolfspraul>
I wouldn't be surprised if Danny from freedomincluded.com hadn't turned on his m1 even once until today...
<wolfspraul>
ok I saw that list [mbed]
<wolfspraul>
what was your experience with companies on that list?
<wolfspraul>
most of them don't reply at all?
<lekernel>
yeah, or "won't sell", "we don't do this kind of stuff", "too expensive", "only if we get free units", etc.
<lekernel>
they're a pain, and given the small volumes they would sell anyway they are not worth my patience
<wolfspraul>
I haven't thought much about their businesses, but from the distance I'd also think it's a mismatch
<wolfspraul>
I think most of them make their money with very low-cost items that have big margins
<wolfspraul>
so for example they have a naked board, 20-50 USD
<wolfspraul>
they don't make much money with that
<wolfspraul>
but then people will buy a lot of small things, cables, adapters, power supplies, etc.
<wolfspraul>
and that's where the big fat margins are
<wolfspraul>
that's just my very rough guess about these businesses
<wolfspraul>
so a video synthesizer just doesn't make sense there
<lekernel>
depends, sometimes they also have some packaged audio equipment there as well
<wolfspraul>
instead of trying to sell m1 to them, let them tell you waht they like to sell, then you get the idea and you can decide whether it's worth to continue talking to them
<lekernel>
oh, well, I wouldn't bother
<wolfspraul>
we can try to find distributors for Roland or similar brands, and see what they say
<wolfspraul>
I'll do that as soon as I have units
<lekernel>
I'd rather reserve my patience for large distributors, not for 2-guy businesses who also are a pain in the ass to work with
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
and they need to add value too, what's the point of yet another online store...
<lekernel>
I just mailed them a few times, got negative answers or no answers, end of discussions.