<kristianpaul>
he, i almost forgot, now that minimac core dont use DMA i can port it to the avnet, but now i need a PHY.. wich i dont wish to import :-)
<wpwrak>
lekernel: (clang) interesting. it's always good to have a second compiler to try things with.
<wpwrak>
lekernel: (recreational drugs) love it ;-)
<lekernel>
wolfspraul, NTSC works by the way
<lekernel>
(from the wiki "Support for NTSC, SECAM, component video, or even multiple multiplexed signals may be possible but is currently unsupported.")
<lekernel>
component video and s-video require an additional little bit of software support, but is definitely possible
<lekernel>
I tested a NTSC source a while ago
<wolfspraul>
I thought you said earlier it's hard?
<lekernel>
I'm talking about the video _input_ right now
<lekernel>
the ones that I see very useful are USB and RCA (or alternatively the little stub that xiangfu sent me)
<lekernel>
ok
<wolfspraul>
we can remove later when we get feedback
<wolfspraul>
I want to remove use obstacles
<wolfspraul>
not satisfied with the low usage rate of rc2, so this time I want to leave less chance for not doing anything with the box :-)
<lekernel>
rc3 will be a totally different experience... if we get the remaining software items done in time for the flashing (which might need kicking a few asses) we could definitely push it to VJs and artists directly
<lekernel>
but yeah, good idea to include more cables, especially given how much they cost in europe
<wolfspraul>
they cost me about 1 usd each :-)
<wolfspraul>
I'm more worried about weight than cost
<lekernel>
ok, listing in leaflet is:
<lekernel>
\item a Milkymist One video synthesizer
<lekernel>
\item a CVBS mini-camera
<lekernel>
\item a rubber USB keyboard
<lekernel>
\item a jack-jack and a jack-RCA audio cables
<lekernel>
\item an Ethernet cable
<lekernel>
\item a 5V power supply adapter for the Milkymist One
<lekernel>
\item a 12V power supply adapter for the camera
<lekernel>
\item developer tools (optional):
<lekernel>
\item a JTAG and serial USB adapter
<lekernel>
\item a USB cable
<lekernel>
sounds good?
<lekernel>
ah, forgot the camera cable
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: ah you're back
<wolfspraul>
so yes the list is correct
<wolfspraul>
the remote control is up in the air right now, as you know
<wolfspraul>
maybe instead of 'rubber' you should say silicone keyboard?
<wolfspraul>
is silicone the same as rubber?
<wolfspraul>
checking :-)
<wolfspraul>
looks like there are many 'silicones' and they are rubber-like
<wolfspraul>
well, I'm pretty sure the keyboard makers are 'silicone makers' so they use silicone
<wolfspraul>
I could ask for more details what they use chemically, but I think silicone keyboard is better than rubber keyboard
<wolfspraul>
the developer tools are not optional, they will be included with every rc3
<wolfspraul>
I have too little feedback right now to remove anything, it's too early.
<wolfspraul>
hopefully with rc3 we get more real-use feedback and can then remove some stuff in rc4
<lekernel>
imo we should be able to make them optional pretty soon
<wolfspraul>
yes but too early to decide now
<wolfspraul>
'silicone keyboard' ok with you?
<wolfspraul>
it's not rubber
<lekernel>
ok
<wolfspraul>
remote control is moving, if everything goes well one will be included
<wolfspraul>
but there are still some moving pieces as you know...
<wolfspraul>
maybe you add it to the list once we know it's all finalized
<wolfspraul>
the "CVBS camera" is typically called "CCD camera" in China, but I guess that's a matter of preference
<wolfspraul>
I wouldn't know what either is :-)
<wolfspraul>
it does have a CCD sendor (Sony 1/3''), not a CMOS sensor
<wpwrak>
what are "developer tools" ? a CD with gcc ?
<kristianpaul>
I tought was with fedora FEL
<kristianpaul>
sure is not that anymore
<wpwrak>
but it's software ? seems odd to make that "optional". copying a CD is rather cheap. i'm sure that's what kinds in china learn even before they're weaned ;-)
<wpwrak>
besides, including optical media with software is so retro :)
<kristianpaul>
usb stick
<wpwrak>
pricy :)
<kristianpaul>
or the leaflet just poiting to a wiki and xiangfu scripts :-)
<lekernel>
it's jtag/serial adapter + pointing up usb cable
<lekernel>
no we don't include any software (except on the M1 flash)
<kristianpaul>
ah, the jtag/serial pod is optional then, i see :-)
<lekernel>
yeah we should make it optional at some point
<lekernel>
maybe not for the first run3 units
<kristianpaul>
so webupdate is working now?
<lekernel>
no, afaik xiangfu hasn't touched it for... 2 weeks or something?
<kristianpaul>
k
<lekernel>
it somehow works, but it's not robust and it's incomplete
<lekernel>
I really hope it can be finished before the boards get flashed
<wpwrak>
so "development tools" is a section. \item development tools \begin{itemize} \item jtag board \item usb cable \end{itemize} ?
<lekernel>
yes
<wpwrak>
okay, makes sense then :)
<kristianpaul>
and later bios also may support PC free like feaures for upgrade and even rescue :-)
<kristianpaul>
mail to patch
<lekernel>
there's already rescue
<lekernel>
in fact, regarding software, what would be cool is get a frozen "bugfixes only" version before the boards are flashed
<wpwrak>
"usb cable" sounds ambiguous. can you also use it to connect the M1 as a usb device ?
<kristianpaul>
sure i'm just reading apple ios5 bew "features" :)
<kristianpaul>
(M1 as a usb device ) dont think so
<kristianpaul>
is it for debug mainlly
<kristianpaul>
and last rescue method
<lekernel>
I hope xiangfu can finish the webupdate fast and fix the GUI fonts and wolfgang does the german translation
<lekernel>
those are the only remaining blockers on software
<lekernel>
i've done the other tasks, unfortunately it's too often my name which appears in commit logs
<kristianpaul>
;9
<kristianpaul>
;)*
<wpwrak>
lekernel: you should recruit some minions :)
<lekernel>
kristianpaul, you can definitely use M1 as USB device, see topic
<kristianpaul>
or focus on a SDK, mininios like SDK too
<Fallenou>
~/topic
<kristianpaul>
yeah? let see
<lekernel>
there are even easter egg placeholders on the PCB for you to do that. soldering resistors into them and doing the FPGA/software work is up to you.
<kristianpaul>
oh, sure :_)
<wpwrak>
;-))
<wpwrak>
well, as long as you keep "usb cable" in the "development tools" section and don't "flatten" the list ... :) otherwise, people will think M1 plugs into their PC via usb, using that cable
<kristianpaul>
indeed
<wpwrak>
as in "i don't even know what ethernet is, but it also supports USB. great !"
<kristianpaul>
hahah
<kristianpaul>
lekernel: (to save me some readings) the firmware you used in navre was took/forked from other project or written from scratch?
<lekernel>
what other project could I possibly have taken that from?
<kristianpaul>
not sure, dont know, just asking
<kristianpaul>
i'm not very related to the usb world :-)
<kristianpaul>
ok thats an answer, thanks ;-)
<lekernel>
opencores only claim they have working USB controllers, but unfortunately they don't ...
<wpwrak>
lekernel: (navre) btw, what distressed you there ?
<lekernel>
?
<wpwrak>
"navre" = "distressed" or "heartbroken"
<lekernel>
having one more thing to do myself (and a quite pesky one) because existing open source solutions are mostly bullshit
<wpwrak>
ah :) thought it was a statement about AVR
<wpwrak>
kinda like saying "a PIG16-compatible core"
<kristianpaul>
;-)
<lekernel>
I wouldn't have taken AVR if I thought it was crap
<wpwrak>
hmm, yet that's what the name you picked quite strongy suggests
<wpwrak>
sounds a bit like "i had no other choice"
<wpwrak>
as in "my boss made me do it" :)
<lekernel>
yeah, that's basically the situation I was in
<wpwrak>
the kind yet quite different :)
<lekernel>
in hindsight I should just have stuck a proprietary USB controller in there and let some other company's engineer deal with the pesky idiosyncrasies of the USB protocol
<lekernel>
but the M1 boards were already out with USB PHYs only
<wpwrak>
anyway, just saying that i don't think anyone reads this as anything else but you expressing negative feelings about AVR/Atmel
<lekernel>
it's just (rightly) negative about other open source USB controllers and AVR clones
<wpwrak>
having it all in the FPGA demonstrates the power of your solution. so i think you did the right thing, even if it sucked
<wpwrak>
s/it/doing it/
<Fallenou>
lekernel: I think it would be a good idea to have a UVC driver in RTEMS/Milkymist
<Fallenou>
to be able to plug whatever usb webcam and get video in working
<lekernel>
Fallenou, see topic
<Fallenou>
I can only see a mmlogs link in the topic, what's about it ?
<lekernel>
there is a gazillion things which would be good to have, but unfortunately so far there isn't a gazillion developers to make it happen
<Fallenou>
well I could try to do it
<Fallenou>
I've been looking for a few weeks at linux uvc driver
<Fallenou>
and am starting to hack into to since 1 week
<Fallenou>
into it*
<lekernel>
the driver isn't the only problem, the softusb firmware would need a serious overhaul as well for webcams to work
<Fallenou>
yes I was thinking about it
<kristianpaul>
JFDI? :-)
<Fallenou>
maybe everything needed is not yet there in the usb controller
<Fallenou>
kristianpaul: JEDI :)
<Fallenou>
the soft usb needs to be able to send SOF, manage isochronous transfers, and descriptors transfer something like that
<Fallenou>
it could be done in bulk too, but bulk sucks
<Fallenou>
so better do it in isochronou
<Fallenou>
+s
<lekernel>
also, the USB ports are full speed only (transceiver limitation) so this quite severely limits the quality of the video that could be transmitted
<Fallenou>
hum yes
<lekernel>
in the end it's going to be a huge amount of work for a mediocre result
<lekernel>
that being said, it'd be definitely interesting to have an open source USB controller that could handle webcams, even in full speed only
<Fallenou>
hum it's not enough for 640x480 YUV 4:2:2 15fps :/
<Fallenou>
damn
<Fallenou>
would need something lik 72 Mbit/sec
<Fallenou>
lile*
<Fallenou>
like
<Fallenou>
yes it would be good
<Fallenou>
but it will be really really small resolution :/
<Fallenou>
with only 12 Mbps
<Fallenou>
well maybe with MJPG video stream
<Fallenou>
but it will take CPU to show the picture
<Fallenou>
don't know how much cpu it takes to decode a JPG image
<GitHub65>
[extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/mfBCRn
<GitHub65>
[extras-m1/master] Run 3 leaflet (WIP) - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
<lekernel>
funny, rejon's "Open clipart library" feature for inkscape has the same bugs as flickernoise web update :-P
<lekernel>
that is, crash when the network connection fails
<rjeffries>
wpwrak something tht could drive atusb sales would be a standalone 802.15 gadget that has various i/o for sensors including i2c, plus gpio and a few analog pins plus the radio
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: #qi-hardware may be more appropriate for this ?
<rjeffries>
sorry wrong channel my error
<GitHub138>
[extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kCHTRp
<GitHub138>
[extras-m1/master] leaflet: camera setup diagram - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
<lekernel>
he, inkscape is cool :)
<rejon>
ha lekernel can you fix that inkscape bug too then ;)
<GitHub179>
[extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/ltxgNo
<GitHub179>
[extras-m1/master] leaflet: almost done - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
<mwalle>
lekernel: please consider using status register and interrupt enables in the cores (even if it duplicates the lm32 interrupt pending mechanism), writing proper drivers for linux is a pain in the ass atm :(
<lekernel>
why?
<mwalle>
eg i have to poll the cpus pending register within the uart driver
<lekernel>
sounds a lesser evil than duplicating stuff in hw
<mwalle>
so the driver for the core have to be in arch/lm32 and cant be reused for other archs
<lekernel>
seems about right, since the uart hardware itself can't be used with archs that do not have a similar interrupt mechanism in the cpu
<lekernel>
_or_ we can remove the lm32 interrupt pending mechanism from the CPU and put it in the cores
<lekernel>
so it's more "standard"
<lekernel>
it'll be a bit of work though
<lekernel>
and it can impact performance (maybe by a negligible amount) as the CPU will have to issue bus cycles to check interrupt status
<mwalle>
whats so evil with duplicating a resettable bit in the cores? the lm32 interrupt controller are basically 32 ff?
<GitHub28>
[extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kDo35o
<GitHub28>
[extras-m1/master] leaflet: add logo - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
<mwalle>
btw im trying to get device trees working with lm32
<mwalle>
so my first OF driver will be the UART one ;)
<lekernel>
maybe we can simply use level sensitive interrupts, so the LM32 needs no FFs to store the interrupt status
<azonenberg>
lekernel: So my hardmask cracked and broke off during the etch step
<azonenberg>
But i feel like i'm getting very close
<lekernel>
make the IP register read only (just read the interrupt signals from outside the CPU)
<lekernel>
and keep the interrupt states in the cores only
<lekernel>
actually this would remove the bit of redundancy we have with the minimac2 core atm
<lekernel>
would that be ok?
<lekernel>
azonenberg, yeah I read that. but very good results still :-)
<azonenberg>
I got the hardmask on there, and in the past i've used the hardmask successfully
<azonenberg>
i think it was either thermal shock (I did a cold rinse then a hot etch right after baking), trying to etch too deep too fast
<azonenberg>
or the hardmask being too thick
<azonenberg>
One drop wasnt thick enough but two was too much, i think i might need to do several depositions using a dilute solution
<azonenberg>
if it's too thick in a single layer it'll crack more readily
<GitHub163>
[extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kvtJDC
<wpwrak>
keyboard mouse isn't quite intuitive. may be clearer if you show the combinations, e.g., with a "bridge" from Meta to Enter with "Click" written above and a bridge between Meta and a bubble around the cursor keys for "Move Mouse Cursor". not sure if it's worth the effort, though
<wpwrak>
got the girl picture. maybe if you just make her feet cross the bottom line, that could be enough. real people rarely float in front of screens ;-)
<wpwrak>
s/got/for/
<wpwrak>
hah, s/internet/Internet/ ;-)
<wpwrak>
and s/network do not/network does not/
<wpwrak>
"minijack" is 3.5 mm ?
<GitHub40>
[extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/iA7UDe