19:50 <DocScrutinizer05> hi! for the record: we're currently on hold since the PP issue needs to get sorted first

19:51 <DocScrutinizer05> or, on a wider scope, the funding situation needs to get sorted

19:52 <DocScrutinizer05> I did a few very 'dirty' layouts for proto_v2 last week

19:53 <DocScrutinizer05> we could start ('clean') layout right away if we had the funds secured for that

20:04 <DocScrutinizer05> meanwhile last thing we heard from PP was "we need up to 4 weeks to answer your letter" in reply to the "C&D" (not really) letter my lawyer sent. While a few customers who approached PP finally got a reply stating that their particular payment is not affected by any reserve or freeze or whatever

20:06 <DocScrutinizer05> since we can't prove such statement for neither right nor wrong due to lack of a list which payments got frozen and which got not, we will eventually ask such detailed list from paypal, as soon as we have enough feedback from customers forwarding to us their PP reply they received

20:23 <Arch-TK> DocScrutinizer05: if you end up with more % people saying their payment wasn't affected than the % of payments that aren't locked, that would be funny.

20:23 <Arch-TK> I wonder what PP would say about that.

20:24 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, of course.

20:24 <DocScrutinizer05> tbh I think PP has no complete picture of the situation

20:25 <Arch-TK> I think PP are braindead assholes who care a lot more about money than the minority of their customers (the sellers)

20:27 <DocScrutinizer05> to be utterly clear: PP informed us that they establish an infinite 100% reserve on our account, up to either USD 200,000.- or after we shipped goods. Same time they transferred a ~38k EUR to a "Startup Reserve: not available" while keeping a ~5k EUR unfrozen - without any comment which rationale and criteria and math is behind all that

20:28 <DocScrutinizer05> of course I instantly transferred the remaining 5k to our bank account

20:28 <Arch-TK> The reason they don't care about you is because the money comes from the customers of the sellers that use their service, not their other customers (the sellers) if they loose a seller, the customers will still use their service but find another seller (or in this case, the number of customers is so small that it doesn't really matter)

20:28 <Arch-TK> it's just terrible

20:29 <amatus> the merchants always get screwed

20:32 <DocScrutinizer05> so http://wstaw.org/m/2015/11/06/plasma-desktoppJ9051.png and http://wstaw.org/m/2015/11/06/plasma-desktopac9051.png (how paradox!) is all the info we got

20:33 <Arch-TK> Could you translate?

20:33 <DocScrutinizer05> there's definitely no marker or anything on particular transactions to tell which is affected and which isn't

20:34 <DocScrutinizer05> (translate) sure

20:36 <DocScrutinizer05> verfuegbar: available // Einbehalten: Held back // Starthilfe: Starting help, starter aid, jump start, err dunno // Mindestguthaben: minimum credit // Einbeh. = einbehalten(e), <see above>

20:38 <DocScrutinizer05> Guthabenuebersicht: ~ account summary // Mindestreserve: minimum reserve //

20:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ""Die folgenden Transaktionsbeträge wurden aufgrund des für Ihr Konto festgelegten Mindestguthabens als Reserve einbehalten."" -> The following transactions were held back as reserve due to the minimum credits defined for your account

20:40 <DocScrutinizer05> OOH great, they now list transactions affected :-D

20:40 <DocScrutinizer05> they didn't a week ago

20:40 <Arch-TK> Can you confirm that anyone has been lied to / contact the people affected?

20:41 <amatus> Invoice #IN000147 Order Number: ASVHCJHST

20:46 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2015/11/06/plasma-desktopFk9051.png http://wstaw.org/m/2015/11/06/plasma-desktopfb9051.png http://wstaw.org/m/2015/11/06/plasma-desktopfQ9051.png http://wstaw.org/m/2015/11/06/plasma-desktopXR9051.png !! http://wstaw.org/m/2015/11/06/plasma-desktophZ9051.png !! http://wstaw.org/m/2015/11/06/plasma-desktopii9051.png http://wstaw.org/m/2015/11/06/plasma-desktopIm9051.png

20:46 <DocScrutinizer05> actually they do NOT list which transactions are affected that were done *before* the initial freeze

20:48 <DocScrutinizer05> they only list the insane initial freeze of 33,268.24 and the few transaction that happened _after_ that and before we disabled the PP on shop

20:51 <DocScrutinizer05> amatus: ASVHCJHST is 2015-06-01 and not listed in http://wstaw.org/m/2015/11/06/plasma-desktopfb9051.png

20:51 <DocScrutinizer05> so I can't tell

20:53 <DocScrutinizer05> only thing I can tell for sure: none of all the transactions that were included in the initial 33,268.24 has been unfreezed since

21:00 <DocScrutinizer05> Arch-TK: I _suspect_ that particularly payments by CC via PP are afected, thus we would need feedback from those customers about what PP is telling them about sttae of their payment

22:42 <edwin> I only got 2 messages from Paypal, one on Oct 15 saying "Thank you for contacting PayPal regarding your payment to Neo900 UG (haftungsbeschränkt).The funds will be available to the seller in order to complete your order.", and one on Oct 18 saying "Mr. Török, we cannot give you any details about the seller's account due to Data Protection Policies, in this case if the seller has a query, please ask them to contact us directly and we will assist him

22:42 <edwin> is there anything specific I should ask Paypal?