ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Drup> Guys, I need guinea pigs.
<Drup> I would like people to try the Z3 package situated in this repository: https://github.com/termite-analyser/opam-termite and tell me if they manage to compile things using Z3 (the tests in https://github.com/termite-analyser/z3overlay for example)
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<mcc> ok i just installed a module i wrote myself using opam pin and this feels friggin magic
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<AltGr> mcc: Thanks! :)
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<phasip> Hey, I am trying to build a package using lwt_timeout, after trying ocamlopt and noticing that all the deps of lwt_timeout would need to be added to the command line I tried ocamlbuild, but what I get now is 'No implementations provided for the following modules: Lwt_timeout' - I tried to add -libs lwt_timeout but it complains that it cannot find lwt_timeout.cmxa ... I have cmx,cmti,cmt,cmi,mli but not cmxa
<phasip> My command line: ocamlbuild -r -use-ocamlfind -pkgs lwt,unix main.native
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<Leonidas> phasip: have you tried adding lwt.unix to -pkgs?
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<phasip> Leonidas: Doh! Thanks...
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<Leonidas> phasip: when you look at the docs, Lwt_timeout is under "Unix bindings", which means "lwt.unix".
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<phasip> Yeah, it seems clear when you know it - and probably is if you are more used to ocaml =) - Just starting and having trouble whenever I try to use a library
<Leonidas> yeah, no worries :) it is indeed confusing at first.
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<phasip> Btw, is ocamlbuild the tool mostly used to compile? I was trying to use ocamlopt and it seems that ocamlbuild simplifies things a lot
<companion_cube> yes, ocamlbuild is quite widely used
<companion_cube> it has drawbacks but for many projects it's good enough
<phasip> Allright
<Leonidas> phasip: ocamlbuild uses ocamlopt, you can specify -classic-display to see the commands
<Leonidas> hint: it's not pretty
<phasip> heh, I'll stick to ocamlbuild
<Leonidas> what happened with whitequark? haven't seen him in quite some time
<companion_cube> hmmm, indeed
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<companion_cube> his irc logger is still here though
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<MercurialAlchemi> companion_cube: but is this a strong proof of whitequark's existence?
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<companion_cube> it proves whitequark existence in the past
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<MercurialAlchemi> but not his continued existence
<MercurialAlchemi> I think we should ask CERN
<companion_cube> I hope they won't accelerate matter until they produce a high-energy whitequark
<companion_cube> that would be dangerous
<Leonidas> his twitter account is pretty active, so I suppose his continued existence is a fact
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<companion_cube> maybe he stopped writing OCaml for a while
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<companion_cube> oh, last log from him I have is 26 March :/
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<phasip> Have I understood correctly that if I have a function that may take a long time, I cannot use lwt to put it in a thread and abort it if it takes too long? - That lwt only operates on it's own methods and that the rest non-lwt code cannot be interrupted
<companion_cube> indeed. You should use Lwt_preemptive, I think: http://ocsigen.org/lwt/2.4.3/api/Lwt_preemptive
<Leonidas> phasip: yes, Lwt only does cooperative multitasking
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<phasip> But can lwt_preemptive actually abort a computation that has started? I have a function f that can return three values, -1,0,1 but it may take a long time to finish. I want to add a timeout that aborts the function after 60 seconds and acts as if the function returned 0, if the function returns earlier I do not want to wait the rest of the 60 sec
<companion_cube> I don't think so
<flux> I doubt it, killing threads is inherently risky proposition
<phasip> I tried using fork but it sometimes got stuck - I think it was because the child terminated before I had time to run waitpid
<companion_cube> unless you use Thread.kill... ?
<flux> though I think there might be some solutions
<flux> companion_cube, is it actually implemented?
<phasip> I got a not implemented error when i tried atleast
<flux> I think there is a solution involving raising a signal from a SIGALRM handler
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<companion_cube> flux: I have no idea.
<companion_cube> sub-processes might actually be more flexible
<flux> yes, that's the proper&safe way to do it
<companion_cube> because they can use another core, and are known to be easily killable
<phasip> I guess I'll have to try that solution again then
<flux> well, you could also embed a timer check into your algorithm
<flux> ..but it will slow it down :)
<adrien_znc> 14:04 < phasip> I tried using fork but it sometimes got stuck - I think it was because the child terminated before I had time to run waitpid
<flux> maybe you need to ignore SIGCHLD
<adrien_znc> until _something_ calls wait() or similar, the data will stay around
<adrien_znc> but
<adrien_znc> I wouldn't be surprised lwt does such handling itself
<adrien_znc> and that you had a race between your code and the code from a library you use
<adrien_znc> in doubt, strace
<adrien_znc> Thread.kill is only implemented for VM threads iircs
<adrien_znc> iirc*
<adrien_znc> anyway, with posix threads it has several limitations so fork really is better
<phasip> Feels like I'm diving very deep - starting with ocaml, not done much linux process interaction and now trying to identify the problem with strace ^_^
<adrien_znc> if strace is easy
<adrien_znc> s/if //
<adrien_znc> (and if you pastebin the output I can look at it)
<flux> phasip, that's great, now you know you're learning something new 8-)
<phasip> Hehe
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<adrien_znc> strace -tt -f -o log -s 64 <your command>
<adrien_znc> (to write to file "log")
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<companion_cube> there are many libraries dedicated to subprocesses, I think
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<phasip> Okay, so I dont know what I do wrong. Heres a small example https://gist.github.com/Phasip/f09746914aeebf18cca9 - why does it output child finished before the first waiting for? and why do I get wait done for the same childpid and i multiple times?
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<companion_cube> first remark: use Printf or Format rather than concatenating string like this
<adrien_znc> (Printf)
<adrien_znc> phasip: strace :)
<adrien_znc> also, you really should make your pattern match exhaustive
<flux> printf also allows to easily flush the output
<flux> I wonder if that could be misleading as there is no flushing
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<companion_cube> what is the first matched used for? "let run = 2 in ..." alywas follows the same branch
<adrien_znc> yeah, you must definitely flush
<flux> I guess it's debugging
<phasip> Yes, the run = 2 was originally the slow function
<phasip> I should probably have put the sleep in there
<phasip> Okay maybe i undestand
<phasip> Flushing is the problem
<adrien_znc> and print_endline will also flush
<phasip> Child finishes - it flushes and outputs everyhing. parent runs second child and child finishes and outputs its buffer including the old part
<phasip> and then it continues like that
<phasip> It's only one write call when looking at strace
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<adrien_znc> I get
<adrien_znc> Waiting for 18571.
<adrien_znc> child finished: 18571, 2
<adrien_znc> with printf and flushes
<adrien_znc> but operations on in/out_channel are buffered in ocaml-land
<adrien_znc> and strace will only show the syscalls
<phasip> Yep, flush fixes it!
<phasip> adrien_znc: yeah, so: Parent fills buffer with A, child runs, adds B and flushes on exit output: AB, then parent adds more output to buffer so its now AA and runs child, which adds B and exits, AAB
<adrien_znc> most probably, yeah
<phasip> Anyway, Printf/Format, exhaustive pattern matching, did you see anything else that hurt your eyes?
<adrien_znc> match foo with
<adrien_znc> | x -> ...
<flux> maybe you could move the functionality of child and parent to different functions, and then move fork with the pattern matching and waiting to its own functions, and then the loop would be composed from your forking and the two other functions. if you want to go overboard with it ;-)
<adrien_znc> leading '|' and no indent (I used to put indent but stopped)
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<Leonidas> yeah, me too, somehow
<phasip> Thanks! Lets see if I can get this working on the real function now
<Leonidas> I put begin after the -> but that might just be me
<Leonidas> or ( ) if begin/end looks too busy
<Leonidas> also, 2 spaces indent :-)
<Leonidas> also, let () = loop 0 ;)
<phasip> 2 spaces? Allrighty ^_^
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<Leonidas> I don't know if this is universal, but it works well for me.
<Leonidas> ah, there it is
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<phasip> =)
<adrien_znc> someone should port it to ocaml.org
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<bernardofpc> adrien_zn> someone should port it to ocaml.org -> I could read and write a new version, but does it need any licence ?
<adrien> good question
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<bernardofpc> btw, an update with relations to ocp-indent behaviour would be probably nice
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<dmbaturin> bernardofpc: I'm pretty sure it's not going to be hard to obtain a permission or license clarification from INRIA.
<dmbaturin> Apparently, some material from the original caml.inria.fr website and other places was already moved/imported to ocaml.org
<maurer> Is there a clear way to build an opam package with debugging support?
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<bernardofpc> is there a tree in OCaml-land (stdlib, batteries, CContainers, ...) that supports O(log n) for add / remove / index ?
<bernardofpc> In fact, besides of_list (or equivalent) for building it at the beginning, I only need Tree.remove_idx my_tree idx
<struk|work> in general I thought that is how ocaml implements the Map interface
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<bernardofpc> It does have an AVL tree inside, but I see no "n-th" to index elements inside
<bernardofpc> (I don't want to remove by compare, but by its position on the sorted set)
<Drup> isn't a map of ints enough ?
<bernardofpc> I was looking into Set, will think a bit more on Map
<Drup> I mean, do you really need the fact that it's the "position" (whatever that means in something that operates on O(log n) ...) or just an index is enough ?
<bernardofpc> I need the position
<bernardofpc> I mean, the tree stores an ordered set with k elements inside and O(log k) operations
<bernardofpc> and I want to take the i-th out
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<bernardofpc> I have written the set as a list, so for the moment I have an O(k) operation, and it's not *that* bad since k is small (< 1000)
<bernardofpc> but it's not the riht data structure
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<Drup> you do realize that finding the ith element in a set is not a O(log n) operation ?
<Drup> (at least, not with an AVL implementation
<bernardofpc> well, you must store the cardinal downwards
<bernardofpc> so maybe not with stdlib's Set implementation (has only height as extra info)
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<companion_cube> bernardofpc: good question
<companion_cube> you add in front position?
<companion_cube> hmm
<companion_cube> it would be nice to have ornaments (?) to have one generic AVL implementation with arbitrary payload...
<reynir> This is a bit off-topic, but I found Rob Pike had implemented "reduce" (left fold) in Go, and saw it was a bit flawed and fixed it https://github.com/robpike/filter/pull/1
<companion_cube> olol
<reynir> when I was writing the tests I ran into runtime type errors because I had reversed the order of the arguments to cons
<companion_cube> the lack of polymorphism in go continues to baffle me
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<reynir> Yea, the bug I mentioned would have been caught during type checking heh
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<struk|work> honestly I do not see the appeal of Go whatsoever
<companion_cube> concurrency, I guess
<struk|work> I'm convinced it really solves those problems well enough either
<struk|work> *not convinced
<companion_cube> neither do I, but well, Rob Pike has made a great job advertising "simplicity"
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<bernardofpc> companion> you add in front position? -> in my specific case, I could sort and then input in the set, but I see no point in doing it in a stdlib type
<bernardofpc> companion_cube: yeah, but you must have some kind of "update functions" that are run when you balance / insert
<companion_cube> well, not many data structures offer both a set and an index semantics
<companion_cube> especially because removal in a set changes many indices
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<companion_cube> (shifts them, more accurately)
<reynir> what appealed to me was the concurrency primitives and that the language spec was short (it still manages to have plenty weird corner cases I found out)
<bernardofpc> (so it'd be a large-ish module type for the functor input in you "ornamented-AVL")
<companion_cube> bernardofpc: you might be interested in finger trees
<bernardofpc> companion_cube: yeah, that's why you don't store the index itself, but the size downwards
<companion_cube> although I'm not sure they perform that well in OCaml
<companion_cube> I'm curious, why do you need the index for? random picking?
<bernardofpc> permutations, so yeah
<bernardofpc> I mean, it's a toy problem from my course, but since I know there's a data structure that does just that, I started searching in OCaml ;-)
<companion_cube> maybe an AVL functorized over its payload is the way to go then
<companion_cube> there are finger trees in batteries too, I think
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<bernardofpc> companion_cube: so, around 1500 elements BatFingerTree is better than a "dumb" list with O(n) operations
<bernardofpc> (but maybe I'm not really making these O(n) operations really O(n), more tests incoming)
<bernardofpc> in fact, there's already a factor of 2 for len=700 when there are "more O(n)" operations (at first I had just "small permutations" that didn't go very far in splitting the list)
<companion_cube> if you have time, you should copy some AVL code and add the size in each node
<companion_cube> so you can compare
<bernardofpc> right
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<bernardofpc> probably the set.ml code is a good starting point ?
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<companion_cube> maybe so (LGPL license, just in case)
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