ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<small-wolf> what's a good alternative to aspcud for opam?
<Drup> the solver farm
<Drup> aspcud's not packaged for your system ?
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<small-wolf> no I use nixos
<Drup> then solver farm.
<small-wolf> I just want to be able to use batteries in the top level. There's a package for batteries and a package for findlib.
<Drup> sure, what's the issue ?
<small-wolf> but the findlib package installs topfind to a nonstandard location (in /nix/store) rather than to /usr/lib/ocaml/topfind
<Drup> that has pretty much nothing to do with aspcud
<small-wolf> ah
<small-wolf> well
<small-wolf> maybe I should back up
<Drup> and ocamlfind should not install to /usr/lib/ocaml/topfind either, when under opam
<small-wolf> I can't build ocamlfind with opam unfortunately
<Drup> oh ?
<small-wolf> it complains about a missing dependency m4
<Drup> why ?
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<small-wolf> which I did in fact install
<Drup> ah
<Drup> that's probably the source of your issues
<small-wolf> so, long story short, I'm having a hell of a time figuring out where opam installs things
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<small-wolf> and where it looks for the tools it needs (like m4)
<Drup> in ~/.opam
<small-wolf> hmm
<Drup> pretty sure opam doesn't know anything about m4
<Drup> opam is not aware of individual build systems for each packages
<Drup> so if ocamlfind screw finding m4, the issue is probably with ocamlfind
<Drup> you say ocamlfind is packaged in nix ?
<small-wolf> it is
<Drup> try to see if it has custom patches
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<small-wolf> looking at the nix expression for findlib, it seems like they apply two patches to deal with installing topfind
<small-wolf> hmm
<Drup> is one of the m4 related ?
<small-wolf> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/tree/e7f712e2a2e65f785edd18812ea0450517f377cb/pkgs/development/tools/ocaml/findlib ... there's an environment variable OCAML_SITELIB that they set
<small-wolf> I don't think so. What linux distro do you use? I'm having more difficulty with ocaml and its toolchain than most people seem to be
<Drup> I'm using Arch but there are people here using various other distrib.
<Drup> I don't know if anyone did the legwork of checking opam was working nicely on nix, so you will have the pleasure of doing it :p
<small-wolf> hmm and in arch you haven't had any problems?
<Drup> can you pastebin "opam install -v ocamlfind" ?
<Drup> you installed opam as root ?
<Drup> why did you do that ? :O
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<small-wolf> because I'm in a vm and didn't bother to make a nonroot user
<Drup> I see, ok.
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<Drup> the message say it's *usually* m4, but it doesn't seem to be m4 this time.
<Drup> the weird thing is that I don't see any explicit failure
<Drup> duh;
<Drup> /nix/store/b8qhjrwf8sf9ggkjxqqav7f1m6w83bh0-binutils-2.23.1/bin/ld: cannot find -lncurses c
<Drup> install ncurse ? :/
<small-wolf> I tried installing the ncurses package
<small-wolf> after seeing that message
<small-wolf> it did not fix the problem
<Drup> same error ?
* small-wolf nods
<Drup> (I'm not even sure why findlib needs ncurse ...)
<small-wolf> the nix people are really militant about what counts as a dependency
<Drup> oh, I got it, it's because ocaml's top level need it, and topfind interfaces with that
<Drup> small-wolf: hum, the nix patches are probably related to that.
<Drup> so, hum, I see two things that could work
<small-wolf> I just nixos-rebuilt and the environment variable in the patch
<Drup> 1) try to switch to an opam managed compiler and see if it solves things
<small-wolf> is not set
<small-wolf> what is an opam managed compiler? I'm new to this
<Drup> "opam switch 4.02.1"
<Drup> then opam will build a compiler itself and manages it, instead of using the one provided by the system
<Drup> (it will also be more recent)
<Drup> the other solution, which is not exclusive
<Drup> is to use "opam source" to get the source of ocamlfind
<Drup> apply the patch
<Drup> then use "opam pin" to specify this modified source as content of the package
<small-wolf> just like apt pinning?
<Drup> I didn't knew apt had pinning
<Drup> is it new ?
<Drup> I didn't when I was under ubuntu, but that was several years ago
<small-wolf> I don't know how recent the change is
<Drup> I just read about it
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<Drup> it's similar, but it's only per-package and there is not the same priority system (at least not at this level)
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<Drup> and you can pin local versions
<small-wolf> so how does opam's pinning work?
<Drup> opam pin add <package> <path/to/files>
<Drup> (path can also be a local path or url to a tarball or a git repository or ..)
<small-wolf> oh I see
<small-wolf> you don't set priority of different sources (and don't have a preferences file like for apt), you have the option of making an arbitrary package have priority over the default one, on a per-package basis
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<Drup> priority over different sources is settled by opam repository, which will be the subject of another lesson. :3
<small-wolf> I successfully built ocaml 4.02.1
<Drup> and did the eval thingy
<small-wolf> yes I just did that
<small-wolf> now I'm trying to install ocamlfind using opam, let's see if it works
<small-wolf> wow. that fixed the problem completely
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<Drup> :opam magic:
<small-wolf> this kind of defeats the purpose of using a purely functional package manager, but I'll take it.
<Drup> since opam handles all the installation, it's not installed in some specific nix prefix which ocamlfind screw up
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<small-wolf> are there opam sandboxes?
<Drup> not really
<small-wolf> a la cabal sandbox/virtualenv
<Drup> but you can use alias switches for mostly the same purpose
<Drup> an alias switch is something with it's complete own toolchain, with a different name but using some specified compiler
<Drup> its*
<Drup> and you can use different switches at the same time.
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<Drup> it's not as transparent than sandboxes but I personally prefer it
<small-wolf> Hmm... what are your thoughts on Pervasives + Batteries vs Core?
<Drup> I personally don't like Core, but that's mostly a matter of preferences.
<small-wolf> AUGH. I got some ridiculous invalid pointer error when trying to run utop
<Drup> outch :O
<Drup> same when default ocaml ?
<small-wolf> pardon?
<small-wolf> no, originally utop didn't get an invalid pointer error
<Drup> the default top level, "ocaml"
<small-wolf> the ocaml toplevel works fine
<Drup> interesting.
<small-wolf> my guess
<Drup> why is it referencing /nix/store/pppfsivqfv1kgkaqyyxg0g8hvpah57ma-ocaml-4.01.0/, it shouldn't try to get there
<small-wolf> beats me
<Drup> you have the "eval ..." thing in your .bashrc/.zshrc/whatever
<Drup> ?
<small-wolf> oh
<small-wolf> wait I think I know what the problem is
<small-wolf> I tried installing utop
<small-wolf> before I evaled the line
<small-wolf> how do I force it to rebuild utop?
<Drup> opam reinstall utop
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<Drup> you should put that line in your script to be evaluated in each new shell
<Drup> it's important, it sets env variables
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<small-wolf> gotcha
<small-wolf> utop marche encore et peut voir les module de batteries
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<Drup> you switched to french :D
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<small-wolf> je parle un peu francais. pas beaucoup.
<small-wolf> les modules*
<Drup> stay in english, the french chan is #ocaml-fr ;)
<small-wolf> ah. gotcha. I can't figure out how to add a compose key in xmodmap anyway
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<ggole> Yep
<ggVGc> yeah, I agree named arguments are nice, but it does increase verbosity too
<ggole> Well, saturated calls don't need labels
<ggole> So you can have your choice of map f array or map array ~f:long_ass_thing_here
<ggVGc> hm, I might fork lodash and just reverse arguments of everything so it fits functional programming
<ggVGc> ggole: yeah, thatäs nice
<ggole> There's a definite volume increase though
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<ggVGc> reynir: this is a really really grat talk! :) Thanks again
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<reynir> You're welcome!
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<cmtptr> ty
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<Drup> nojb: do you have a modified mirage-skeleton around to take advantage of the runtime parameters ?
<nojb> Drup: you dont need a modified mirage-skeleton
<nojb> just cd to any old unikernel
<nojb> and do mirage configure --help
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<nojb> (after pinning https://github.com/nojb/mirage#better-params that is)
<nojb> hopefully you will see something under the section "UNIKERNEL PARAMETERS"
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<Drup> ok, the keys can be defined both in config.ml and in a CONFIGURABLE signature, right.
<Drup> that's the piece I was missing. :)
<nojb> right, each CONFIGURABLE defines which keys it uses
<nojb> in config.ml you can define user-defined keys that can later be referenced from inside the unikernel
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<Drup> why instead of trying to put a piece of configuration in each end result module, didn't you tried to synthesize a/several module(s) and functorize things over it.
<Drup> you are already synthesizing a module for custom bootvars, but not for the rest, it seems
<Drup> As I understand it, that could kinda solve the "multiple-device" issue.
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<Drup> (am I making sense ? :D)
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<nojb> Drup: ping - sorry had to leave for a moment
<nojb> 15:28 <Drup> why instead of trying to put a piece of configuration in each end result module, didn't you tried to synthesize a/several module(s) and functorize things over it.
<nojb> 15:29 <Drup> you are already synthesizing a module for custom bootvars, but not for the rest, it seems
<nojb> 15:31 <Drup> As I understand it, that could kinda solve the "multiple-device" issue.
<nojb> 15:35 <Drup> (am I making sense ? :D)
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<Drup> yep, that's all of it
<nojb> I am not sure if I understand your suggestion ... ?
<nojb> what would I be synthetizing for each CONFIGURABLE ?
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<Drup> not for each, only for some. You would add an argument to the corresponding functor implementation and synthetize said module argument.
<nojb> ah yes I understand
<Drup> it means that each functor can have a different arguement (like, 2 IP stacks)
<Drup> it also means that if you implement something in term of another functor, it will naturally "inherit" the arguments
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<Drup> (note that I'm not yet very familiar with mirage, so I could miss something obvious that makes this a bad idea :p)
<nojb> one sec - I need to check something
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<nojb> It is an interesting idea - one downside is that it requires that all the libraries implementing the different CONFIGURABLEs be made aware of this extra "configuration" argument - a lot of code needs to be touched
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<nojb> the current approach only touches the mirage tool
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<Drup> well, not necesseray
<nojb> the "multiple-device" issue is actually easy to solve by giving names to the different devices used in your config.ml - more serious is the fact that it is hard to map all configuration choices to a command-line string
<nojb> what do you mean ?
<Drup> the mirage tool could apply the functor for you
<nojb> yes that's true but still all the libraries would have to be adapted
<nojb> but perhaps it is a good idea - right now the configuration parameters of each library are passed as function arguments - it would be interesting to experiment with passing them with a functor arguments as per your suggestion
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<companion_cube> Drup, dsheets: yorick? is this related to the documentation tool?
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<Leonidas> https://gist.github.com/Leonidas-from-XIV/904fcd4e49c3748bed9f why does it say that the type t is required but not provided?
<Drup> companion_cube: look at the link nearby
<ggole> Leonidas: you have t in the sig but not in the struct
<ggole> Leonidas: you can probably just replace the instances of t with Yojson.Safe.json
<Leonidas> ggole: okay, that get's me further for a bit
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<Leonidas> ggole: my next error is that it can't infer `Null and `Assoc to be of type Yojson.Safe.json
<ggole> Erm, I'm not familiar with the library.
<Leonidas> it says it's 'a -> [< `Assoc of ('a * ([> `Null ] as 'b)) list ] -> 'b
<Leonidas> http://mjambon.com/yojson-doc/Yojson.Safe.html <- the json type is just a collection of polymorphic variants
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<companion_cube> Drup: didn't see anything, but well, I do write some small scripts in OCaml. Is dsheets too?
<Leonidas> oh, looks like nested match bit me
<ggole> Leonidas: yeah
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<ggole> Poly variants do suffer from strange error messages
<companion_cube> ah, this
<companion_cube> hmmm, interesting combinators indeed
<companion_cube> funny I wrote a subprocess thing with Format at the same time
<companion_cube> could make a nice small library indeed
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<struktured> In the spirit of something like https://github.com/agarwal/future/blob/master/opam#L12 , how would I add an "and" condition to the expression to indicate another required dependency ?
<companion_cube> lwt+foo:installed, I think
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<struktured> great, thanks
<companion_cube> try it first
<bobfang> hi quick question
<bobfang> how can I increase the stack size of an OCaml native application?
<bobfang> thanks
<flux> hmm, I would imagine the same way you do it for any other (linux) application: with ulimit
<flux> but if not ;-), then with the environment variable OCAMLRUNPARAM
<companion_cube> yes
<companion_cube> OCAMLRUNPARAM='l=1024' (for 1kb stack, apparently)
<companion_cube> OCAMLRUNPARAM='l=30M' should work too I think
<bobfang> cool thanks
<bobfang> do I use env OCAMLRUNPARAM='l=30M' to set it?
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<companion_cube> I think so (comes from "man ocamlrun" if you want more details)
<struktured> companion_cube: sweet it worked . now its time to add a new implementation for future :)
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<struktured> I'm a little confused as to why both lwt.syntax and lwt.ppx exist now. Is lwt.syntax there just for legacy support?
<Drup> different technology and slightly different syntax
<Drup> you can't except all the camlp4 user to change their codebase overnight to use ppx :)
<Drup> (especially considering camlp4 is not compatible with ppx ...)
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<struktured> yeah just threw me off while trying to execute let%lwt expressions
<struktured> makes sense though
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<reynir> ocamltter seems to be perpetually broken for me
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