ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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* Drup invoke rgrinberg
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<dmbaturin> Drup: Remote rgrinberg invocation?
<Drup> RRC
<Drup> Remote Rudi Call.
<dmbaturin> How do I access ounit test data dir value from outside a test?
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<dmbaturin> intestdata dir wants test context, but I want to avoid doing the same initialization in every test.
<dmbaturin> * in_testdata_dir
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<n3ss3s> I think there might be some stats/ML term for this: If I have a bunch of key:value pairs and the values are integers in this case, and I want to determine when a value is significantly higher than the others to the point where I'd like to separate it from the pack, how do I calculate the threshold?
<n3ss3s> I thought about something like being above some low multiple of the mean count, but that'll become less effective as multiple values start picking up speed
<Drup> you want to extract outliers ?
<n3ss3s> that sounds good. Now I feel embarrassed for not just using the method they taught in high school stats.
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<Denommus> I hope my library isn't getting space or time leaks :-/
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<flux> n3ss3s, also regarding to machine learning tearms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomaly_detection
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<xificurC_> is there a way to destructure a list in let? let hd::tl = [1;2;5;3] in ...
<reynir> Yes
<Drup> exactly what you wrote :p
<reynir> but you can only have one match case, so to speak
<xificurC_> I'm getting a warning though
<xificurC_> this pattern matching is not exhaustive
<dmbaturin> xificurC_: If the list is not known at compile time, it's a way to Match_failure.
<xificurC_> match l with
<xificurC_> match l with | [] -> false | _ -> let hd::tl = List.map my_fun l
<xificurC_> still warns :(
<dmbaturin> try let x :: xs = ys with Match_failure _ -> [] :)
<xificurC_> or I could match List.map my_fun l with ...
<ggole> You can suppress the warning
<Drup> or you can write correct code
<Drup> :]
<ggole> let a, b, ..., n = [<n things>] is perfectly correct
<Drup> sure
<ggole> (Usually you want to do something like List.map f [<n things>]
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<xificurC_> 1 more question: type card = { rank : int; suit : suit }; now if I have a list of cards and want to get the ranks only, is List.map (fun c -> c.rank) l idiomatic?
<Drup> yes
<xificurC_> no shorthand for the function then, ok
<xificurC_> thanks :)
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<ilia> what is used now instead of floating point infinity or min_float of pi/2? utop prints [ `Deprecated_use_float_module ]
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<Drup> well, it's rather clear: the Float module :D
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<ggole> ilia: that's because of Core
<ilia> Thanks, am I supposed to install module Float separately?
<ggole> min_float etc are still in the stdlib
<flux> I think you simply write Float.min_float
<flux> though I haven't used Core
<ggole> Float.min, probably...
<flux> right, yes :)
<ilia> no, it prints Error: Unbound module Float
<ilia> I get rid of Core
<flux> Core_kernel.Float is the whole name I think: https://ocaml.janestreet.com/ocaml-core/111.17.00/doc/core/#Float
<ilia> now it works, thanks
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<reynir> someone finally registered oca.ml
<reynir> Doesn't seem ocaml related at a first glance, though
<dmbaturin> reynir: standard.ml isn't SML-related either.
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<xificurC_> I have 1 million combinations I'd need to run through. I'd like to avoid building the whole list and then consuming it. Haskell has lazy lists, python has generators or whatever they call them, is there an idiom here?
<companion_cube> you need some kind of iterator
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<xificurC_> companion_cube: what are my options
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<xificurC_> companion_cube: i see a lib from you called gen
<companion_cube> yes
<companion_cube> there is a "combinations" combinator
<dsheets> ugh who owned ocaml.com and has it always been squatted?
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<xificurC_> companion_cube: where :o
<xificurC_> companion_cube: what is the difference between Gen and GenLabels?
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<companion_cube> just the fact that one uses labels and the other doesn't
<companion_cube> http://cedeela.fr/~simon/software/gen/Gen_intf.S.html <-- "combinations"
<dmbaturin> xificurC_: Lazy lists are not hard to make.
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<xificurC_> companion_cube: didn't see I can click on S, don't know the idiom either, thanks. What does intf stand for? Hope you don't mind all the questions
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<xificurC_> dmbaturin: I know they're not but I'd rather use something than reinvent
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<companion_cube> xificurC_: _intf stands for "interface"
<xificurC_> aaah
<companion_cube> I think it comes from the Core/Async world, and found it convenient for not duplicating signatures
<companion_cube> when a module type is large, I put it in Foo_intf, so that both foo.ml and foo.mli can use it with a single "module type S = Foo_intf.S" line
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<xificurC_> so I should use Gen or GenLabels, not Gen_intf. Why having 2 modules, one with labels and one without? Is there a performance difference?
<flux> no, it's the same. so the question "why have a non-labels module at all?" is probably answered by "backwards compatibility"
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<flux> the labeled interface may not be completely compatible with non-labeled one in presence of partially applied functions
<xificurC_> flux: I see, so if I understand correctly there was Gen and when labels were implemented GenLabels was made in order not to break code that already used Gen
<flux> yes, seems like a plausible explanation to me :)
<xificurC_> thank you both, I'll shut up now :)
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<schoppenhauer1> hi. I was trying to install ocaml via the opam_install.sh, and I get the following error: http://lpaste.net/2487930196427014144
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<MercurialAlchemi> schoppenhauer1: sorry, no idea
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<xificurC_> I'm looking at GenLabels' API and don't see how to initialize what I want. I basically have 50 cards and want to generate the 5 community cards and 2 enemy cards. So I have a list of cards, need to consume 5 and then 2 from the rest of them
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<companion_cube> how is it different from drawing 7 cards?
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<flux> ..silence :)
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<xificurC_> because the 5 community cards are common while the other 2 are not. It is different if you get 2 aces on the table then when your enemy has them
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<xificurC_> C(50,7) <> C(50,5) * C(45,2)
<xificurC_> correct me if I'm wrong though
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<flux> so let's say you physically have a deck.. you pick 5 cards from it and name them 'common cards'? then you pick 2 cards and label them 'enemy cards'? I suppose not.
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<xificurC_> it's not the same because if I count C(50,7) I lose many games. If I just mark the cards as numbers from 1 to 50 then C(50,7) will only generate 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. If I mark the first 5 as community and the last 2 as the enemy's cards I will never get e.g. 3 4 5 6 7 1 2
<Denommus> I'm starting to feel functors are easier to reason about than most generic codes
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<xificurC_> so drawing 7 cards only will discard many games as equal while they are not as there is an ordering present
<xificurC_> companion_cube, flux ^
<companion_cube> xificurC_: Gen.(combinations 5 full_deck >>= fun community -> let enemy = full_deck - community in combinations 2 enemy)
<companion_cube> something like this?
<companion_cube> (you need some additional conversions between generators and lists)
<xificurC_> companion_cube: so the full_deck - community you wrote is pseudo code, right. But I get the gist
<companion_cube> the power of monads :)
<xificurC_> companion_cube: thanks!
<companion_cube> try it first
<xificurC_> companion_cube: yeah, the only thing sad about it is how they are reimplemented everywhere instead of being overloaded
<companion_cube> you mean the lack of higher-kinded types in OCaml?
<xificurC_> if I want to use Lwt.Infix and Gen.Infix I have to qualify them
<companion_cube> ah, right
<xificurC_> companion_cube: type classes, or modular implicits if I understood correctly
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<companion_cube> let open Gen.Infix in .... comes in handy
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<xificurC_> right
<xificurC_> thank you for your time and patience :)
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<guto> Hello peepz
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<guto> is anybody out there
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<Drup> Sure.
<guto> Just plain strange, 10 min here and nobody talking XD
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<TheLemonMan> enjoy the silence
<guto> LOL
<guto> like a dead channel
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<guto> So any big projects in ocaml around here?
<guto> Got some plans, but kind of 2 lazy now
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<companion_cube> there have been big projects in OCaml for decades
<guto> I know there have been, just asking if somebody wanted to share with the rest and kill the awkward silence XD
<companion_cube> many people on this chan are in France, which is why it's so quiet at 11pm :)
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<guto> well, I'm a night owl, so this is when I strive xD
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<companion_cube> what are your plans, then?
<companion_cube> (just curious)
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<guto> Well, wrote a very nice XML Parser the other day, and my college database has some nice XML web services, thinking of integrating that with my own email client I always wished to develop
<guto> but don't know much about SMTP and stuff in OCaml, so need to research some more
<companion_cube> ah, an email client, that's ambitious
<companion_cube> there's an imap lib, and a simple smtp one afaik
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<companion_cube> but I don't think the SMTP lib features encryption right now
<guto> I heard of them, at least the SMTP is really beta still
<guto> well, I could help out on those
<guto> maybe
<guto> Well
<companion_cube> that would be sweet
<guto> going to walk the dog, brb
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<guto> or he's gonna walk me, IDK XD
<companion_cube> see you
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<guto> am back
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<companion_cube> so, how did you end up learning OCaml?
<guto> college, even though I started learning functional programming in haskell and stuff
<guto> they use it at my alma mater, for the purpose of teaching functional programming, hence what i said
<apache2> alma mater?
<guto> university
<companion_cube> that's a good thing, my school didn't have enough FP at its curriculum imho
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<guto> well, what was your degree?
<companion_cube> engineer
<guto> mine too
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<guto> I did that course in the CS department
<guto> I'm in electrical and computer engineering
<guto> Kind of a proggraming fan, so I'm doing some of their courses, in a rogue way
<TheLemonMan> lucky you, we do everything with pencil and paper
<guto> me too
<TheLemonMan> and the CS course was a joke
<guto> in tests, of course
<guto> where are you from?
<TheLemonMan> Italy (sigh)
<companion_cube> hey, sometimes a pencil isn't that bad
<companion_cube> it's still the best way to quickly layout one's ideas
<guto> Yes, every single time I'm planning a big ass thing, I either grab a pencil and paper, or a white board
<guto> I like to pretend I'm a professor XD
<guto> My dream though
<TheLemonMan> you don't really want to use a pencil when you need accurate(-ish) numerical results
<companion_cube> eh
<companion_cube> grab python then? :p
<guto> yep, numpy
<guto> but damn , it's easier for me, my ole pencil and paper, because I do some trips every day in public transport
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<guto> 2 hours a day
<TheLemonMan> drawing nyquist and bode diagrams by hand gives you a retro feeling
<guto> LOL true, but you look at yourself and say silently "I'm badass"
<guto> XD
<guto> Which engineering course were you, companion?
<companion_cube> CS
<TheLemonMan> Electronic and Telecommunications
<companion_cube> (handy tip about IRC: most clients tab-complete nicknames ;))
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<guto> A fellow electronic masoquist, nice
<TheLemonMan> oh, I got confused by the postfix nickname :)
<guto> lol
<guto> Would ask you any way, being efficient
<guto> What's your favourite editor?
<companion_cube> vim, of course!
* companion_cube bites
<guto> nice, me 2 XD
<TheLemonMan> yep, definitely +1 for vim
<guto> Without wanting to start a flame war, but am I the only one that thinks you need to either be Knuth or Shiva to use Emacs decently?
<guto> Shiva -- The indian God
<guto> Knuth -- self-explanatory
<companion_cube> nah, I know nice people who use Emacs
<companion_cube> that's nano users whom I usually suspect of madness
<guto> LOL
<guto> or ed people
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<guto> those are truly hardcore
<Drup> M-x butterfly
<guto> LOL
<guto> You know it
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<guto> Been thinking lately, why not form a group to that *nix thing powertools they have in the perl community, replicating all unix tools in ocaml?
<TheLemonMan> been there, done that, the idea is nice from a educational point of view
<guto> I find it very nice, very good code to learn a language
<guto> me 2
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<guto> actually helped a friend of mine, who's participating in that big project
<guto> I'm a perl man too
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<Drup> You have my condolences for that.
<guto> Why?
<Drup> perl people tend to have symbol traumatism :D
<guto> LOL no coding traumas, more like fucked up trust issues, but shit who doesn't?
<sheijk_> TheLemonMan: the idea would also be nice when you want to port your shell scripts to a decent language (which is ocaml, of course)
<guto> yep
<sheijk_> had plenty of cases where i just reverted back to bash because i couldn't find a straight forward way to do certain things in ocaml (please don't ask me to provide a list, though :))
<guto> LOL
<guto> please do
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<guto> sheijk, tell me which, maybe I have done it before or somebody has
<guto> please :D
<sheijk_> guto: mostly because i can't really remember. but things like recursive grep, running multiple things in the background and redirecting stdin/out, etc. are things i remember to be easier in bash
<guto> It's normal
<sheijk_> all of this could be done by a lib but i couldn't find any
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<guto> hmm ok
<Drup> sheijk_: you know fileutils ?
<guto> But you can write procedural ocaml
<guto> it's not necessarily recursive
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<guto> yes
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<sheijk_> Drup: fileutils looks nice but it doesn't change the fact that it's still quite a bit of code to replicate grep etc. (and a lot more if you want the performance opts of gnu grep)
<guto> true
<companion_cube> which is not necessarily a good idea anywayy
<sheijk_> guto: the issue is not functional programming at all
<companion_cube> if you want to write a concurrent to grep, use rust imho
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<companion_cube> competitor* ?
<sheijk_> companion_cube: the thing is i do NOT want to write this. especially when it's trivial to use in shell script already
<companion_cube> indeed
<guto> That's obvious XD
<sheijk_> but in theory having posix functionality in a nice well typed library would be a lot nicer than bash scripts. it's just a lot of work to replicate all or most posix tools and nobody ever did it
<guto> challenge accepted XD
<sheijk_> guto: yay. that's what i want to see :P
<guto> Well, having a tough time now, but will start in the next holidays, at june, deal?
<guto> want to join me in OCaml heaven? XD
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<guto> gonna go, ciao
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<kdef_> ls
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