ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<apache2> is it possible to use |> to pass a value to a variant constructor?
<nojb> no
<apache2> ok :) I thought I was missing something
<nojb> data constructors are *not* functions
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<apache2> ok, it just intuitively seemed that they are similar
<Drup> yes, it's annoying
<nojb> yes, it would be nice if they were - but there are some inherent difficulties to making constructors functions related to the semantics of currying and the fact the tuple syntax used for constructor arguments
<Drup> that's .... really just surface
<nojb> why do you say ?
<Drup> I mean those are not hard point, they are trivially solvable if you want to
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<Drup> it just that some people don't and the other will bikeshed it until death by boredom ensue, so it's not done :]
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<nojb> yep, agree...
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<apache2> thanks for the prompt answer though!
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<kido1412> Does Ocaml has `when` keyword? I found a `when` in https://github.com/mmottl/pure-fun/blob/master/chp4.ml#L90
<kido1412> http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/oreilly-book/html/book-ora028.html But I couldn't find the syntax in the Oreilly book
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<nullcat> ah I got a question about Bigarray
<nullcat> I read the manual, but still have problem on this type declaration "type int64_array = (int64, Bigarray.int32_elt, Bigarray.c_layout) Bigarray.Array1.t"
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<nullcat> if for ('a, 'b, 'c) t, 'a means bigarray element type, 'b is the representation type
<nullcat> why use Bigarray.int32_elt to represent int64?
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<struktured> nullcat: where do you see this? I can't find an *_array definition
<nullcat> part iii, question 1
<nullcat> this is a homework that is already due... i am not here to ask homework question
<nullcat> just to clarify..
<struktured> nullcat: looks like the whole point of the problem is to not do it that way
<struktured> and do various bit shifting and whatnot to expose it as 64 bit anyhow
<struktured> but yeah it seems artificial, unless something like fortran prefers 32 bit encodings
<nullcat> so um why we use int32_elt ?...
<nullcat> ok..
<nullcat> i mean, we could not int32_elt to represent int64
<nullcat> could not use *
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<w1gz> Hi :)
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<ollehar> what's the name of the '|>' operator? in case of googling needed :P
<ollehar> ah, pipe operator
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<dmbaturin> ollehar: 'Reverse application' could be a good name, but it doesn't google at all. :)
<ollehar> ok :)
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<yarl_> Hi, I'm back to ocaml. Actually, I hope I can. I need to cross compile from amd64-whatever to arm (bare-metal). Is it 'easy' to set up?
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<adrien_znc> mirage?
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<ollehar> opam works on windows and stuff?
<Drup> not really
<ollehar> oh
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<ollehar> Drup: could I cross-compile program that uses opam?
<Drup> Ask adrien
<dmbaturin> Are there any serious obstacles for porting opam to windows, or just no one wants to put effort into it?
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<adrien_znc> (doubt it)
<adrien_znc> dmbaturin: there are
<adrien_znc> but seriously
<adrien_znc> forget about "opam on windows"
<adrien_znc> have "ocaml on windows" in mind
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<ollehar> oh, might as well make a web interface then
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<ollehar> hm hm
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<adrien_znc> well
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<dmbaturin> adrien_znc: Well, but how does one install ocaml libs on windows without headache?
<adrien_znc> check fedora and debian cross-compiler stuff
<adrien_znc> build from cygwin
<adrien_znc> it's not very difficult
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<ollehar> or put differently: why does windows still exists?
<ollehar> sigh
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<struktured> ocaml windows support could be better though, in terms of helping wide-spread adoption of the language
<struktured> maybe ocaml.net is the answer...
<struktured> of course the f# fellas might get pissed :)
<flux> yeah, I don't use Windows but I still hope OCaml would be great on it :-)
<flux> ..it's not super important to me, though..
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<MercurialAlchemi> I suspect people who would like to use OCaml on Windows use F#
<flux> probably. and that's what I would probably choose to do as well.
<flux> but then I don't get to use the excellent ocaml libraies!
<struktured> yeah so it would be nice to get those libs on the .net framework so when you use F# we can take advantage of the
<struktured> m
<companion_cube> there's ocamljava, so in theory it should be possible to compile OCaml to CLR
<companion_cube> at least pure OCaml code
<struktured> yes exactly, although I'm not the guy to do it
<Drup> flux: and the functors
* Drup can't live without functors.
<Drup> well, can't program, at least.
<adrien_znc> and what do you use when you want to have both windows and linux?
<struktured> well, there's always virtualization to fall back to...
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<adrien_znc> or colinux on windows
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<orbitz> Hello, is tehre any reasonable way to accomplish this: https://gist.github.com/orbitz/4f8991678b257578ef38
<orbitz> I want to allow a module to provide its own error types but I want it to be at least [ `Closed ]
<Drup> unfortunatly, you need a type variable to do that.
<orbitz> Or rather, I really just ned it to be a polymorphic variant
<companion_cube> [>`Closed]?
<Drup> orbitz: "[> `Closed]" implicitely contains a type variable
<Drup> you can't go around that
<companion_cube> so it's not suitable for values, but ok for functions
<orbitz> companion_cube: yes, so the problem I have is I actaully want
<orbitz> this, but obviously the compiler doesn't know how to force it to be a polymorphic variant
<Drup> yeah, you can't do that :(
<orbitz> Shame
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<orbitz> Makes this API I want really annoying
<Drup> in general, you can't manipulate the row variables in ocaml
<companion_cube> let f : (module S with type err = [>`Closed] ) -> int =
<companion_cube> :DD
<orbitz> What does that do?
<companion_cube> a function that takes S as a first-class module
<companion_cube> I'm not sure it would work though.
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<orbitz> ah, no, that isn't what I want
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<orbitz> Thanks Drup and companion_cube .
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<Denommus> Drup: I was thinking regarding ArrowPlus. An ArrowPlus for a value that doesn't "inhibit" doesn't make sense. So I'm making ArrowZero and ArrowPlus only work for ('a, 'b option) wire
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<yarl_> Hi, I want to have an ocaml cross-compiler to arm (bare-metal). Anyone with any experience in this?
<flux> mrvn has, but he has not been here (for many moons?)
<Drup> you really want bare metal or running without a linux is enough ?
<flux> but perhaps this is useful: https://github.com/mrvn/ocaml-rpi
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<yarl_> Drup, what do you mean? flux, thx I'll check.
<flux> drup, what's really the difference?
<Drup> flux: mirage
<Drup> yarl_: take a look at, it may interest you http://openmirage.org/
<flux> well, isn't running mirage directly on arm bare-metal?
<flux> mirage can boot on some bare-metal arms?
<Drup> no, it's running on xen
<flux> is it because of hardware support?
<Drup> iirc, there are plans for bare metal, but it's not done yet
<haesbaert> Drup: weren't they working on an arm backend though ?
<flux> apparently mrvn hasn't pushed to that repo for quite some time.. but it might still be your best starting point.
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<yarl_> Yeah, this seems very interesting, I'll read that thank you.
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<yarl_> Well, flux, I'm afraid the host is already arm (maybe raspi), am I right?
<yarl_> (looking the Makefile)
<flux> oh, you wanted to cross compile. well I'm sure that's the least of your problems.. ;-)
<flux> I thought the 'bare metal' was the difficult part.
<flux> though perhaps rpi has its own set of special issues
<yarl_> Hehe, well that document is interresting for sure. But yeah I need a cross compiler.
<yarl_> (also)
<flux> you could use qemu and the native compiler
<flux> in principle at least..
<flux> but ocaml can be made to cross compile
<flux> it's just not.. something it does out-of-the-box.
<yarl_> Yeah, I am looking for documents about doing that.
<flux> I suppose byte code is not enough, that'd be (much) simpler I think
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<flux> in fact, I've done that quite a long time ago, for power pc. it's basically just a matter of getting ocamlrun and the libraries getting compiled.
<flux> but I don't quite recall the arduous process
<yarl_> I would like native (arm) code to be produced from amd64(whatever)
<Drup> mirage can do cross compile
<adrien_znc> ocamlopt's main trouble when doing cross is when the bitness is different
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<_obad_> wrt cross-compilation: for our embedded project I've decided to not cross-compile; instead I'm using opam on the actual hardware. that way I get all the benefits of opam and none of the cross-compilation headaches. the problem is that it doesn't integrate into yocto or an automated build system. I generate binary .ipk's on the host and then we use those for deployment.
<_obad_> for automation we're thinking of setting up something qemu-based; it's 10x slower but for nightly builds it should be ok.
<adrien_znc> yocto
<adrien_znc> oh god
<adrien_znc> not integrating into yocto is probably a positive thing if it means less yocto
<adrien_znc> (mostly less bitbake)
<_obad_> yocto is fine; I'm not the one doing python maintenance of recipes :)
<adrien_znc> heh
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<_obad_> I have a polymorphic variant question. type foo = `A | `B of [ `C | `D];; let g = function `C -> 1 | `D ->2;; let f = function `A -> 100 | `B x -> g x
<_obad_> oh wait. this seems to work. my problem was with tuples. never mind
<Denommus> how does React solve time leaks?
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<orbitz> _obad_: compiling ocaml on my raspi is.....unenjoyable
<dmbaturin> orbitz: I like that definition. It's oddly precise.
<tokenrove> my experience with cross-compiling ocaml in the past was pretty positive. i'd hate to be doing builds directly on underpowered arm machines. (now i'm imagining trying to build something with mlton on arm)
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<dmbaturin> tokenrove: Build time would have been measured in MLton release cycles. ;)
<ousado> haha
<orbitz> tokenrove: haha
<dmbaturin> Compiling on a QEMU ARM VM is hardly better, actually.
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<orbitz> is it super slow?
<dmbaturin> Well, it may be better than real low-end ARMs, but compared to running native VMs it's still painfully slow.
<dmbaturin> Provided it emulates a full system, not surprising.
<orbitz> Yeah
<dmbaturin> For kernel developers full system emulation is a good thing though.
<orbitz> Yes definitely
<orbitz> For little guy/girl just wanting to run some Ocaml on a raspi it's annoying :)
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<struk|work> anyone recommend a good presentation on monadic style programming (ideally in ocaml or scala) ? I might do a short talk at my company on the topic
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<Drup> struk|work: lwt ? :D
<Drup> Denommus: Weak pointers
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<ggole> Xavier Leroy did a monad talk iirc
<ggole> With the code in OCaml, obviously
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<ggole> Yeah, that looks like it
<Drup> hum, it's clearly directed to mpri students (so, with a good math background), not programers
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<apache2> is there a type for unsigned integers?
<nojb> opam install uint
<apache2> does uint have ushorts (0-65535) too?>
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<justgage> Hi, had a quick question, I found a file on github that had a ">>=" operator (I think from the LWT library) does anyone care to explain it to me? The file is found here: https://github.com/diml/lambda-term/blob/master/examples/read_yes_no.ml#L13
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<Drup> yes, it's lwt
<Drup> if you do "t >>= f"
<Drup> you will wait for the thread t, when it's finished, you open it up, and give it for f to process
<Drup> and the result is a new thread, waiting for the application of f to the result of t
<justgage> Just what I needed thank you :).
<Drup> I advise you to read the documentation of lwt
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<justgage> Yeah I'm doing that now
<justgage> Is lwt kind of like Go chanells? (or STM in generel?)
<Drup> it's like promises
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<justgage> Ah I see.
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<struk|work> ggole / nojb: thanks those are decent slides
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<justgage> I'm trying to use Random.float but it keeps on returning the same number do I need to seed it somhow?
<companion_cube> Random.self_init ()
<companion_cube> there is a fixed seed unless you initialized Random this wy
<justgage> ah I see
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<adrien> and a period
<justgage> \1
<justgage> woop sorry.
<justgage> getting used to irssi.
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<Denommus> how does React avoid time leaks?
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<Drup> (19:28:42) Drup: Denommus: Weak pointers
<Drup> err, what, *time* leaks ?
<Drup> what does that mean ?
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<Drup> Denommus: 1. you don't have an at function 2. Weak references.
<Drup> of course, you can create time leaks by registering each event in a map
<Drup> (and it's not that hard to create, indeed)
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<Denommus> Drup: wasn't js_of_ocaml limited regarding weak references? Is it more likely to get a space leak on it?
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<Drup> yes, you will get space leak by using React with js_of_ocaml
<Drup> it's a know issue, it's basically not solvable but it's not *that* terrible in practice
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<Denommus> is there an OCaml library for SOAP clients?
<Denommus> yes, I know, SOAP sucks, but I have no choice
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