ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<flux> so extlib (of opam's make lib-ext) fails to compile because no -c -I extlib/ extlib/enum.ml
<flux> /bin/sh: 5: no: not found
<flux> ..what is 'no'?
<adrien> checking for ocamlfind... no
<adrien> (not kidding)
<flux> ...argh
<adrien> actually it's likely "ocamlc" or "ocamlopt" rather than "ocamlfind"
<adrien> check/show config.log
<flux> well, there is OCAMLFIND='no'
<flux> and OCAMLOPT='no'
<flux> I installde ocamlfind, I'll try again
<flux> nope, so maybe it's ocamlopt
<adrien> config.log :)
<flux> ..is there ocamlopt for rpi?-)
<adrien> :)
<adrien> no idea but that's not unlikely to be the issue
<adrien> but config.log :D
<flux> well, there are various responses there that say no
<flux> or what in particular am I looking for?
<adrien> open the corresponding Makefile, look for "-c -I extlib", it's a variable, see after which other variable it is used, look up that second variable in config.log
<adrien> (basically)
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<flux> happy times.
<flux> does opam in general work without ocamlopt?
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* adrien has no idea
<flux> I think this is pretty damning that it says OCAMLOPT = no in Makefile.config
<adrien> heh
<adrien> upstream needs to conditionalize the corresponding parts of the build
<adrien> not much to do besides that
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<flux> so in the end it's using ocamlmakefile with target subprojs
<flux> ah! $(MAKE) -f $(OCAMLMAKEFILE) subprojs SUBTARGET=ncl
<flux> success!
<reynir> \o/
<flux> I didn't bother making a patch at this point, but at least I added https://github.com/ocaml/opam/issues/2119
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<flux> I suppose.. In principle there could be an installation without ocamlc but with ocamlopt?-o
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<adrien> flux: I don't think it's possible
<adrien> you cannot produce ocamlopt without producing ocamlc
<adrien> so you could do packaging and drop ocamlc
<adrien> but noone does that
<flux> good job of the day!
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<flux> seriously, is the standard opam solver like super slow? I thought it had hung on RPi2, but apparently it's just running..
<flux> though perhaps I should recompile now opam with native compiler :)
<flux> ..or use the cluster solver
<flux> ok, so it wasn't the solver part that keeps taking time
<flux> why does 'opam install slacko' make opam use cpu for an undeterminate time even in the presence of an external solver?
<flux> ah, finally!
<flux> it took 2 minutes, 26 packages to install
<flux> to continue my monolog, pretty cool that someone added this error message, saving me at the very least tens of seconds :) => Could not build ocamlfind. The most common reason for that is a missing 'm4' system package.
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<reynir> yea that error message has helped me too heh
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<dsheets> grrrr my hyperlinked document browser is trying to compute something... forever :-(
<dsheets> it's like the revenge of the Word macro
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<flux> there was this way to have merlin write type information to emacs clipboard, what was it?-o
<flux> ah, C-w after finding the type
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<ia0> nice, I didn't know that
<ia0> and is there a way to go to the type definition of the type of the current term? (when the type of the term is a user-defined type)
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<flux> I don't know of one, it sure would be nice
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<flux> this is going to be fun :( Fatal error: exception Yojson.Json_error("Line 1, bytes 88-97:\nInt overflow '1421852440'")
<flux> ..and Yojson is being used by Slacko, so I can't just change the way I use it
<flux> and this of course happens only because RPi is a 32-bit platform and nobody tests on 32-bit platforms :)
<reynir> The cohttp api has changed :o
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<dsheets> reynir, eh? was it me?
<reynir> I don't know. It's some code I haven't touched since October so it should maybe not be a surprise :)
<dsheets> oh, there have been a number of changes since then. :-/ it really ought to stabilize soon
<reynir> Ok, I managed to get it to compile again, but I don't know how to specify what address to listen on anymore
<dsheets> CHANGES is pretty good on that project
<reynir> Ah, thanks! Silly me not looking there heh
<dsheets> reynir, which backend?
<reynir> Cohttp_lwt_unix
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<reynir> heh
<reynir> thanks
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<ggVGc> which of these do you guys reckon reads best? https://gist.github.com/73b20a5dffbd9215a188
<ggVGc> they both do the same thing in my language
<Drup> both read horribly.
<ggVGc> Drup: what would not read horribly?
<Drup> having less symbols ?
<ggVGc> Drup: how would you suggest that?
<ggVGc> Drup: i.e what do you feel is unnecessary noise
<Drup> why is there a _ ? what is " 'box'+ind ", how does the anonymous function scope ?
<Drup> are these "," for tuples ?
<ggVGc> Drup: this is a superset of javascript I'm making. _. is accessing a function in the namespace called _
<Drup> why in hell do you want to call a namespace "_" ._.
<ggVGc> because it's a javascript library called lodash. not really something to do with this example specifically, sorry
<ggVGc> Drup: I was refering to piping vs. application
<ggVGc> guess it wasn't clear
<Drup> also, constructing tuples without parens was a bad idea in caml, dont reproduce it
<ggVGc> it's not tuples. It's just argument separation
<ggVGc> javascript doesn't really have a notion of tuples
<ggVGc> and I'm not adding it
<Drup> argument separation ?
<ggVGc> Drup: my $ operator is just shorthand for wrapping something in parens. So, foo $ a,b,c compiles to foo(a,b,c)
<ggVGc> javascript doesn't have curried functions
<Drup> that's a terrible syntax.
<ggVGc> what's a better idea?
<Drup> foo a b c
<ggVGc> I'm open to all suggestions
<ggVGc> Drup: yeah, but that has too much anbiuity within the context of javascript.
<ggVGc> I am making tradeoffs
<Drup> like any expression-based functionnal language that supports currification ever.
<Drup> well then don't support currification
<ggVGc> right, I don't
<ggVGc> that's what I said
<Drup> then don't add $
<Drup> foo(a,b,c)
<ggVGc> $ has value in other contexts
<Drup> why add a new syntax when an other one already exist and is more familiar ?
<Drup> you should really add a separator after the λ
<Drup> (and please just use \, not λ, easier to type)
<Drup> "\x -> <e>" (like in haskell) or "\x . <e>" (like in some lambda-calculus and other languages)
<Drup> it's mucher easier to parse visually with a separator
<ggVGc> yeah, I've had the discussion about the lambda symbol a lot, and I'm sticking with it. But I will add an alternative syntax for it in case anyone else ever becomes interested in this.
<ggVGc> Drup: here is why I like to have $, https://gist.github.com/5181b57e10f80d135d5e
<ggVGc> ehh, I forgot one $ there
<ggVGc> but yeah
<Drup> why is there a lambda alone ?
<ggVGc> typo
<ggVGc> Drup: oh, it just means anonymous function
<Drup> with no arguments ?
<ggVGc> yes, since this is javascript it makes sense
<Drup> meh.
<Drup> but ok
<ggVGc> I am adding a terser and more functional syntax over javascript, but it's still javascript semantics
<Drup> just use purescript.
<Drup> =')
<ggVGc> no, I tried many altJS's before starting this, and none of them meet my main requirement of generating JS that looks human written
<Drup> even typescript ? :p
<ggVGc> because I need the output to be read and understood by people who are not using this language, after I have delivered the work
<ggVGc> typescript doesn't give me anything of what I want
<ggVGc> just types
<ggVGc> which I don't care about
<Drup> right :D
<Drup> anyway
<Drup> readability wise, if you didn't have the very unfortunate ",", I would agree with you on the $
<Drup> unfortunatly, you do, so no, add the parens.
<Drup> the floating unscoped ',' are terrible for readibility
<ggVGc> Drup: initially I didn't have the commas, but I fairly soon realised that I ended up needing parens around a lot more things and readability decreased. This way it's much easier to pass expressions to functions without wrapping in parens
<ggVGc> because the commas disambiguate
<Drup> (mcc would like your language)
<Drup> (it's starting to look like perl)
<ggVGc> actually, I'm gonna give removing the commas another try
<ggVGc> maybe my feelings during testing were exagerrated
<ggVGc> thanks for the input
<Drup> (well, a mix of perl haskell and javascript, really)
<Drup> (which is not the happiest combination, syntaxwise)
<cmtptr> the lambda token should be ,\
<Drup> or just \
<cmtptr> no, that's missing a leg
<Drup> but it's the right length in monospace font
<cmtptr> D:
<Drup> and you can "fix" it by using a custom font, like Haskell people do
<ggVGc> using a custom font is more work than binding a key though
<adrien> (heh, vimmer)
<Drup> using utf8 for one of the most common keyword is a bad idea, though
<ggVGc> hm, I disagree. I think it's time we move away from characters sets of the 70s
<Drup> No, that's not the issue
<ggVGc> but yeah, I know basically everyone disagrees with me on this, but until someone else seriously wants to use my invention I'm sticking with lambda sign
<Drup> it's just the amount of manipulation you have to type it.
<ggVGc> to me it's very quick, and more readable than any other syntax for "lambda", and also the character literally means what it is
<Drup> ggVGc: have you ever used Agda ?
<ggVGc> nope
<Drup> well, they have their stdlib full of utf8 symbol
<Drup> and it's not such a great idea.
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<reynir> could be ggVGc is greek
<Drup> brb, adding éèçàöê in my variable's names, I even have the right in OCaml ♥
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<reynir> Hm
<Drup> (it's deprecated, if you are wondering)
<reynir> nah, it's my web server... It dead locks
<reynir> I use Cohttp_lwt_body.of_stream on a stream made by Lwt_io.lines_of_file (with some map/filter in between)
<reynir> It seems to read a few lines and then it gets stuck
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<Drup> avsm: are the github PR opam switch updated after the initial PR if more things are pushed ?
<reynir> Ah, an exception seems to have cause it
<avsm> regenerated from scratch on every cron build
<Drup> ok
<avsm> but you'll need to `opam switch reinstall` locally
<Drup> sure
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<peio_> hi
<peio_> i am currently searching for people familiar with jocaml
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<peio_> anyone?
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<Leonidas> there was a discussion on jocaml, yesterday or so.
<Leonidas> My vim just displays a lambda when writing "fun" or "function"
<flux> how do I make oasis compile with -g?
<flux> I solved for this case with echo 'true: debug' >> _tags, but what's the right way?
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<Drup> flux: it compiles with -g by default
<flux> oh, ok :)
<flux> well, it explains why my error messages were as good as they were
<flux> but Lwt sure doesn't help following backtraces.
<Drup> actually, it can
<Drup> it's just not enabled by default in the camlp4 syntax extension (it is in the ppx)
<Drup> urg, apparently it's not even documented u_u'
<Drup> flux: if you give -lwt-debug to camlp4, it will enable the debug mode and improve backtraces
<Drup> (if you use the ppx, it's on by default)
<flux> thanks, good to know. I got close enough by adding some context arguments.
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<peio_> re, sorry was afk
<peio_> okay so jocaml is not so dead... great :)
<Drup> considering the last version is on 4.01, that would be a bit of a bold statement.
<peio_> ^^ right
<peio_> i am currently strugling with jocaml/opam/ocamlbuild
<Drup> dsheets: <3
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<dsheets> remember kids, don't do jazz
<ggVGc> when would one prefer |> vs @@ in ocaml?
<flux> well, when you are passing multiple arguments to a single function
<flux> oops
<flux> I mean that's the vice-versa-case
<Drup> I usually don't chain @@
<flux> |> is used when you want to give the view of 'pipelining' value
<flux> 5 |> string_of_string |> int_of_string
<Drup> I use @@ only to pass a multiline argument to a function and I don't want to have a dandling ) at the end
<reynir> string_of_string :P
<flux> oops
<Drup> otherwise, what flux said.
<ggVGc> ah yep
<flux> @@ is most useful when the last argument of a function is another function :)
<Drup> yep
<flux> foo_argh blarg @@ fun response -> ..
<flux> look ma', no parens!
<Drup> dsheets: the choice of combinators seems quite clever, It's interesting
<ggVGc> flux: dunno how readable that is to me though
<flux> ggvgc, it is very readable when you chain them.
<Drup> the result is almost shell-y, which I'm not sure is a good thing or not, but was probably the goal :D
<flux> in particular compared to a paren-hell ;)
<dsheets> Drup, thanks, i thought it was quite poetic
<ggVGc> yep this makes sense
<ggVGc> thanks
<Drup> ggVGc: note that all that would not be of any use if "function foo -> .." had a terminator.
<Drup> like "function foo -> ... end"
<Drup> which is, imho, a better design: add terminators for all constructions.
<dsheets> I transliterated thomasga's bash almost 1:1
<Drup> dsheets: and It compiled out of the box ? That's impressive, thomasga is capable of writing correct ocaml code in bash :D
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<ggole> end at the end of every let would be ridiculous
<Drup> ggole: let is graciously dismissed of this rule, fun is not.
<dsheets> indeed! fuzzy_bool_of_string is probably the most despicable shellism to creep in
<ggole> I wouldn't mind an optional end at the end of match
<Drup> (and if is *certainly* not.
<Drup> and match too, yes
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<peio_> why would one want terminators?
<ggole> So that you can solve the nested match problem properly without silly begin/end or parens
<peio_> were at the era of the off side rule
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<Drup> peio_: are we ? ruby as terminators for everything
<Drup> has*
<Drup> (I just said ruby did something right, wow x)
<Drup> dsheets: you should extract yorick, pretty sure companion_cube is interested
<Drup> (and other people)
<peio_> haha.. right, but i think that redundant things should be deleted (like terminators)
<peio_> it lowers the verbosity and anyway everybody indents
<dsheets> Drup, yes, i had this feeling from the beginning but i'd like to get a little feedback on it first and see what operators and small utility funs it might be missing
<Drup> sure
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<dsheets> but yes, it will almost certainly become an opam package
<reynir> I took a quick look, it looks very interesting, dsheets :)
<Drup> (also, please post a word diff of the .sh again the .ml somewhere)
<dsheets> why do you say companion_cube wants it?
<Drup> against*
<Drup> he expressed the desire to use ocaml for shell scripts several time
<dsheets> ah, i see
<dsheets> it definitely has limitations but i think it's surprisingly useful
<dsheets> i do reading horribly right now and there is no support for exit codes
<dsheets> though I've written the operator, i don't know if it's the right one, yes
<dsheets> reynir, thanks!
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<Drup> (also, bonus points for a windows batch implementation)
<dsheets> haha no.
<Drup> pretty sure someone will ask you :D
<dsheets> ok, we can call it Rodeo_clown
<reynir> lol
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<Leonidas> ggole: begin match ... end, there you go :-)
<Leonidas> i recently stumbled about this in a review, was confused about it and not sure if I like it
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<ggole> It's that or parens. I don't really like either that much.
<Drup> Leonidas: you don't really have the choice.
<Leonidas> nested matches are somehow syntactically awkward
<dsheets> I try to put the nested match as the last case when I decide to use them: no delimitation needed
<reynir> coq has match end. I don't know if it's so you can have empty match'es...
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<thizanne> it's more probably so you can have nested matches
<thizanne> personnally I'm ok with ocaml not having match end : when I need nested matches, I just consider `begin match` as being the keyword
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<ggVGc> Drup: removed all syntax with commas now. I think it'll work out better. thanks for pushing me
<Drup> hum, no problem ^^'
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<osa1_> why these two are not executed same: `let line = input_line chan in line :: iter chan` and `input_line chan :: iter chan` ?
<Drup> because you should not rely on the order of evaluation for function application (and here, constructor application)
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<Anarchos> osa1_ there is no order specified, though ocaml pretty much evalutes from right to left in "input_line chan :: iter chan". But with let ... in ...., you force the evaluation inside the let.
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