<wolfspraul>
you cannot use USB because USB on the Ben is client only, not host
<wolfspraul>
unless you talk to a host like the Neo FreeRunner which could in turn connect you to Wi-Fi/BT (I don't think anybody every tried that, also expensive and error prone)
<wolfspraul>
the spectec card is your best bet for wi-fi
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: thanks for your very detailed introduction!
<qwebirc83180>
and yes, microSD is very expensive, almost the same price as Ben
<wolfspraul>
qwebirc83180: yes, first I just tried to answer your question
<wolfspraul>
but depending on your background, maybe the easiest way to describe it is that if the Ben is not interesting to you without RF, then it's not interesting at all right now
<wolfspraul>
but of course that's up to you, since I don't know what your plans are :-)
<wolfspraul>
the best connectivity comes from the USB cable right now
<wolfspraul>
and we can still improve software quite a bit to get more out of what is theoretically possible there
<wolfspraul>
I use USB Ethernet to connect to my Nano, maybe we should work on how ethernet & mass-storage could co-exist. not sure that works yet or not.
<wolfspraul>
tuxbrain: I think it's emdete and/or josch_ ? I'm not sure... :-)
<tuxbrain>
ok, I hope they have listen me in make a rootfs tar.gz version to boot debian from uSD, can you emdet, josch_ ping me back about if its possible to have it?
<wolfspraul>
yes I hope we can document how the debian rootfs was created
<wolfspraul>
also I hope we can have a unified kernel between openwrt and debian, actually I think mirko is already working towards that
<tuxbrain>
will work once debian on usd on nand flashing/backup from sd and avr compile/flashing , maybe some java stuff too
<tuxbrain>
nand flashing from sd card might help windows guys to come in, due uSD card is the only interface they have to exchange data with BNN
<tuxbrain>
well they can also use serial console through Hyperterminal :P
<tuxbrain>
xianfu: what is the maximum size of the fat partition to boot from sdcard?
<tuxbrain>
xiangfu: what is the maximum size of the fat partition to boot from sdcard?
<josch_>
tuxbrain: hey
<josch_>
tuxbrain: the rootfs was created by me invoking debootstrap
<josch_>
tuxbrain: and by emdete running a few apt-gets
<josch_>
tuxbrain: no big magic there
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: well, generally, Ben nanonote is good
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: I intend to use Ben as a field programming platform for my robot
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: so, if it has wireless then it's should be more better
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: BTW: for dictionary and wiki storaeg, just 2GB storage is not enough
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: at least 16GB internal storage should be provided
<wolfspraul>
qwebirc83180: true but that's just theoretical thinking :-)
<wolfspraul>
the Nanos we ship right now have a 40 MB rootfs on them
<wolfspraul>
that's not because we keep the other 98% free on purpose
<wolfspraul>
it's because we have not yet gotten to the point that we can fill up those 2 GB with valuable content, right from the factory
<wolfspraul>
so that's our first priority in terms of Ben
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: and if I choose to use SD slot with Wifi, then I will lost possiblity to use external storage
<wolfspraul>
in parallel of course we are evaluating larger NAND chips, several people have 8 GB and 16 GB NAND chips
<wolfspraul>
yes correct, only one microSD
<wolfspraul>
btw 16 GB NAND chip is about 50 USD last time I checked
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: too bad not wifi microSD vendor provide all in one solution for storage and wifi IO
<wolfspraul>
so our priority is to first max out what the Ben can do
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: yes, very agree with you on this
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: honestly, I didn't figure out any killer apps for Ben now :)
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: but once it's integrated with wifi or bt, then ben will have varies purpose
<wolfspraul>
with killer app you mean something that could make you buy one?
<wolfspraul>
or you just try to say without RF you think nobody will buy? what's your point?
<wolfspraul>
btw I think both Wi-Fi and BT are old, complicated, power hungry and proprietary technologies
<wolfspraul>
I started using the Ben to take notes. works quite well.
<wolfspraul>
I wish I could use it as my alarm clock, but need to figure out a few more things for that first. Also I really really want to trust my alarm clock, otherwise I may miss a flight or important meeting :-)
<wolfspraul>
also I want to use it as dictation device, to record from the microphone
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: oh, Ben still can sell without RF, but I guess it might sell better if equipped with RF
<wolfspraul>
for sure, the more the better
<wolfspraul>
although price is also important, and integrating is costly
<wolfspraul>
but yeah I wish we would sell more units, create more capital, invest the capital in better technolgoy, etc.
<wolfspraul>
we are working on that...
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: em, so some protential user might wait till Spectec SDW-823 get much cheaper
<wolfspraul>
it will never get cheaper
<qwebirc83180>
so why not integrate RF part into Ben or BenII as a plan B?
<wolfspraul>
what we need to do is to integrate ourselves, and that's costly
<wolfspraul>
oh we are working on Ya NanoNote already
<wolfspraul>
in fact every software improvement on Ben will help Ya too, so the software work on Ben is also towards Ya
<wolfspraul>
for RF there are several options, GPS, Marvell module, HopeRF module
<wolfspraul>
but it will take time, I wouldn't expect the Ya NanoNote to come out for at least 6 months
<wolfspraul>
we need to sell some Ben first, and to do that we need to get more of the hardware performance out to the user
<wolfspraul>
which many people are working on, luckily... :-)
<qwebirc83180>
sigh, it will come out next year
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: BTW: are you based in Beijing?
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
why 'sigh' - you want it earlier?
<wolfspraul>
the work on Ben benefits the next device
<wolfspraul>
progress is quite good, but quality needs a bit of time
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: yes, I want it earlier, I used to expected Ben can reach Ya's spec
<wolfspraul>
just got Debian to work on the Ben, which is great
<wolfspraul>
one by one
<wolfspraul>
if our current software can only utilize a small percentage of what the HW could do, why improve the HW specs?
<qwebirc83180>
OK, shall I visit your local office in Beijing ?
<wolfspraul>
makes no sense to me
<wolfspraul>
we will focus on getting more out of the HW
<wolfspraul>
and there is a lot more it could do...
<qwebirc83180>
em, indeed
<qwebirc83180>
wolfspraul: I might buy Ben and also expect for a field trail :) so can I visit your local office in Beijing and have a face to face talk?
<vegyraupe>
mirko: ping
<josch_>
hm
<vegyraupe>
it's a bit early for him I guess
<mirko>
vegyraupe, pong
<vegyraupe>
mirko: aaaaaah :) do you know if the proto that josch_ has, ever actually worked?
<vegyraupe>
mirko: if so can you get him the image that was flashed and such?
<josch_>
vegyraupe: it did work
<josch_>
vegyraupe: it bootet with the OS that was on there when i got it
<josch_>
vegyraupe: never did i suspect it would fail to boot if i would reflash it
<mirko>
it worked
<mirko>
josch_, do you use the the right xburst-tools/usbboot?
<vegyraupe>
mirko, josch_: ok 2 vs one here, as long as you guys figure it out I am habby :P
<josch_>
mirko: i didnt know there was a wrong version
<mirko>
josch_, there is one for the prototypes (as it just has 1 gb of nand flash) and the one for the official ones with 2 gb
<josch_>
but flashing went fine when i used the provided deb binary
<josch_>
brb taking a shower
<xiangfu>
tuxbrain, not sure. the mmc driver in u-boot is not good. so I think the sd card < 2GB is always work.
<mirko>
josch_, yeah, with the wrong offset
<mirko>
divide every offsets used in the official reflash-script for the ben by 2 for your version
<mirko>
oops, times 2 (*2) - not devided
<mirko>
so the kernel starts at offset 1024 on the ben, for you it starts at 2048
<mirko>
same with the rootfs (2048 -> 4096)
<mirko>
have to go to university
<josch_>
oh
<josch_>
hrm...
<josch_>
mirko: i already did that
<josch_>
mirko: larsc told me to
<vegyraupe>
josch_: the easiest would be to get a Ben or an AVT2 ;)
<josch_>
vegyraupe: :P
<josch_>
brb classes
<vegyraupe>
josch_: ack
<josch_>
re
<josch_>
likes to live close to the lecture hall :D
<vegyraupe>
:D
<vegyraupe>
zedstar: ping
<zedstar>
vegyraupe pong!
<vegyraupe>
zedstar: hey :) how is the project wrt education on the Ben coming along?
<zedstar>
vegyraupe well waiting to hear back from a demo submission to a conference.......i was getting guile working properly recently with command line history.....have a makefile u can try in your build
<vegyraupe>
zedstar: if it works we should get it into the feed
<zedstar>
vegyraupe yeh the one currently you have is disabled
<vegyraupe>
zedstar: is the edu project dependent on the conference ?
<zedstar>
vegyraupe no...just steps really to improve chances of getting proper funding and get the word out
<zedstar>
vegyraupe sujan has access to a bunch of libraries in nepal now that have wikireaders....need to get some nanonotes through that channel also i guess
<vegyraupe>
zedstar: ok, let me know if there is anything we can do to help
<zedstar>
vegyraupe sure thanks
<zedstar>
vegyraupe in terms of apps i would like to have a crack at PDF search engine with SDL interface to trigger nupdf....hopefully over summer i can have a go
<vegyraupe>
you want to search in a pdf?
<zedstar>
vegyraupe yeh can do with hyper estrairer just need decent interface
<vegyraupe>
oh, that does sound interesting
<zedstar>
it triggers pdftotext and search inside
<zedstar>
so can have thousands of pdf and find what u need quickly
<zedstar>
has a nice c api to do the searching etc
<vegyraupe>
u think the Ben is fast enough?
<zedstar>
well...indexing is the slow part
<zedstar>
but once indexed should be ok i think
<zedstar>
the search engine is pretty optimised
<zedstar>
written in c
<zedstar>
but yeh be interesting to see how it performs
<vegyraupe>
hm ok
<zedstar>
what would be kewl though is a decent interface to page between search results
<vegyraupe>
zedstar: I haven't done any sdl coding yet
<vegyraupe>
but it probably isn't too hard either, and we can always nag wejp to give us hints ;)
<zedstar>
ive just fiddled with some demos
<zedstar>
nice api tho
<zedstar>
but lot of work
<zedstar>
compared to gui toolkits
<vegyraupe>
but the speed is good
<zedstar>
yeh.....im really keen on some nintendo ds style gui's on the ben instead of widgets
<mirko>
larsc, ping
<vegyraupe>
zedstar: haven't seen the ds interface
<tuxbrain>
trying to mount the ubi file but I don't get the point :(
<dmarschal>
hello!
<dmarschal>
I'm about to update wiki with a NN compatible battery
<dmarschal>
how can I upload a picture
<zear>
dmarschal, first you need to create an account on the wiki if you don't have it already
<dmarschal>
zear: thank you. I have an account  and I'm logged in.
<zear>
then click on the "toolbox" tab on the left and choose "upload file"
<qi-commits>
Lars-Peter Clausen: Move methods only used by dialogs from the GMenu2x class to a common base class http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/6da573f
<kristianpaul>
but those are implemended by the kernel as another port
<tuxbrain_away>
not by kernel by uboot, I have a uboot with the patch of Xianfu enabling them as serial that will be included in next realease, so surelly is also uploaded in git
<tuxbrain_away>
is same port UART0 but without keyboard interference
<kristianpaul>
hmm i need it
<kristianpaul>
so i can test a gps i have
<kristianpaul>
i alrady have the gps sofware but neet to be sure uart will work
<kristianpaul>
so the default serial in nano will give me troubles even if i use S key at poweron with uboot?
<kristianpaul>
i can avoid use keyboard and do all by ssh
<tuxbrain_away>
let us informed about you progress, gps is one of the things I would love to see attached to BNN
<kristianpaul>
i know
<kristianpaul>
i want do gps mapping do with the nano :)
<kristianpaul>
too
<kristianpaul>
*
<tuxbrain_away>
my itention is to make it advice me about near traffic radars and if I'm avobe the allowed speed in the car, even if there is radar or not.
<kristianpaul>
oh
<sid_>
hi, something with my toolchain is wrong....