<xakh> Man, doom flies on this little thing.
<Xakh> hey, what're the gmenu keys again?
<Xakh> hello,
<Xakh> ?
<wolfspraul> I only know that 'x' launches an app, and that overall pretty much everybody agrees the key mappings are not very 'intuitive' :-)
<Xakh> indeed.
<Xakh> hey zear
<Xakh> zear_: what's the charmap for gmenu2x?
<zear_> s, d, z, x, select, start, q, p
<zear_> *esc, enter i mean :D
<zear_> here's more info: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Gmenu2x
<Xakh> I'm using the android irc client, so the wiki's hard to read ;)
<zear_> ah :)
<Xakh> can someone write out a "date" command, so i can see what i keep typing wrong?
<Xakh> i can't seem to get my date set.
<zear_> from the manual: [MMDDhhmm[[CC]YY][.ss]]
<Xakh> so like date -s and then that?
<Xakh> or is there  any other syntax i need?
<Xakh> and is CC like the century?
<Xakh> that what that's for?
<zear_> it's like date 052210252010
<Xakh> oh i don't put brackets?
<zear_> no
<Xakh> ohhhh
<zear_> :)
<Xakh> hmmmmmm
<Xakh> i put date 052204262010
<Xakh> said that was invalid
<Xakh> it's 0427 here, that should be right, right?
<Xakh> zear_: thanks for being patient, never had to set a date manually before
<zear_> :D
<zear_> no problem, we're here to help
<zear_> anyway, have to go, happy hacking
<Xakh> np
<Xakh> anyone else know what to do bout my date?
<Xakh> seriously, goin' nuts here.
<ilembitov> Hi, all. Probably, not the most appropriate place to ask, but I'll try anyways. What are the available (I mean, not vintage ones) alternatives to NanoNote? I'd like something similarily priced, but with a slightly different form-factor. I'd like something more like HP Jornada/Psion rather than Sharp Zaurus, so that the screen would be wider and the keyboard would be more useable for touch-typing (like Psion 5mx). Is anybody aware of anything like that?
<mth> ilembitov: OpenPandora seems to be finally shipping their first units now, it's slightly larger than the NanoNote
<ilembitov> mth: Well, it's still not really what I mean. It doesn't have a proper keyboard. There are some options from Sharp (the most recent NetWalker) or Fujitsu, but they are in a different league and they are priced much higher
<mth> do you mean a keyboard with all keys on it, or non-rubber keys?
<ilembitov> mth:  http://www.dd3dj.de/pics/psion.jpg Here is what I mean (it's Psion 5mx). HP Jornada and Nec MobilePro had something similar (although Psion was the best). However, all of them are long gone and don't have internal memory/USB connectivity
<mth> a friend of mine has a Toshiba Libretto, but that's years old, I don't know if there have been any successors to it
<ilembitov> I figured out, that probably a CLI-based interface could do well on an offline device like NanoNote, you just need a wider screen and bigger keyboard. It could still be tiny (Psion 5mx weighed ~250g nearly 10 years ago)
<ilembitov> mth: Libretto is not really a PDA, but an actual X86 subnotebook. There are lots of similar machines even today, including Fujitsu U series. The only problem is that they are Windows-based (so the keyboard has much more than 50-something keys, including the whole F1-F12 row, etc) and really expensive
<ilembitov> Psion was perfect in that regard, since they got rid of nearly all non-symbolic keys, leaving Esc, Shift, Ctrl, BackSpace, Fn and Psi (their own mod key, much like second Fn)
<ilembitov> They had 58 keys, I guess, nearly 17.5x17.5 mm, if I am not mistaken
<ilembitov> BTW, how come NanoBook is MIPS-based, not ARM-based?
<mth> I think it's because the JZ chip is cheaper than ARM-based SoCs, but I'm not sure
<mth> the USB boot mode is also a big plus, since you can always recover from a flash problem
<mth> and if you run open source software on it, it's relatively easy to switch architectures
<ilembitov> Well, NanoBook seems nice. For me, it's just a screen/keyboard issue and the fact that I would have to pay halfprice just for shipping it to Russia =)
<ilembitov> It doesn't have a touchscreen, right?
<mth> I'm not sure, I don't have one myself
<mth> I think not, but please check
<wolfspraul> ilembitov: we can ship with EMS to Russia now
<wolfspraul> but cannot tell you an exact price right now, just email sales@sharism.cc if you are interested
<wolfspraul> the keyboard of the Ben NanoNote is definitely tiny, although I think it's good quality
<wolfspraul> so if you want to do a lot of typing, like programming, then it's probably too small
<wolfspraul> same for the screen - small
<ilembitov> wolfspraul: Thanks, will look into the details
<ilembitov> wolfspraul: So does it have a touch screen?
<nebajoth> greetings
<nebajoth> I followed the instructions to flash debian on my NN
<nebajoth> the pyneo ones
<nebajoth> and now the sucker will not boot
<nebajoth> its not just a matter of not seeing the first tty
<nebajoth> it never gets seen by lsusb
<nebajoth> and hitting power+m with a known good sd card
<nebajoth> doesn't boot from the sd card
<nebajoth> and power+u doesn't put it in usb mode
<nebajoth> I believe this means that uboot is corrupted somehow
<nebajoth> or are the boot modes controlled lower than uboot?
<larsc> power + u is handeld by the first stage loader
<nebajoth> so what does it mean if it doesn't work?
<nebajoth> corrupted or missing first stage loader
<larsc> do see anything at all on the screen?
<nebajoth> no
<nebajoth> the red led does come on if its plugged into usb
<nebajoth> that's the only indication its still alive at all
<larsc> ok. so you'll have to put it into usbboot mode by shorting the usbboot contacts under the battery
<nebajoth> neat
<larsc> and then flash uboot again
<nebajoth> :D
<nebajoth> k
<nebajoth> thanks
<nebajoth> going to attempt it now
<nebajoth> I don't think its working
<nebajoth> larsc: no luck.
<nebajoth> shorting the two usb pins doesn't help
<nebajoth> hmm perhaps I misunderstand it
<nebajoth> oh
<nebajoth> reset button
<nebajoth> haha
<nebajoth> no
<nebajoth> still nothing :(
<nebajoth> that's what I've been working from
<nebajoth> nothing in lsusb, nothing in dmesg
<nebajoth> :(
<nebajoth> wolfspraul: halp
<nebajoth> unbrickable ben bricked
<wolfspraul> nebajoth: how so?
<wolfspraul> do you have the carbonized rubber button?
<nebajoth> what
<nebajoth> reset button?
<wolfspraul> he
<nebajoth> or power button?
<wolfspraul> ok one by on
<nebajoth> haha yes
<nebajoth> the beginning
<wolfspraul> how did you brick it, what happened?
<nebajoth> tried to flash it with debian
<nebajoth> the pyneo one
<nebajoth> with the compiler
<nebajoth> not the mini one
<nebajoth> it seemed to write ok
<nebajoth> but it won't boot now
<nebajoth> red led comes on when usb cable is plugged in
<nebajoth> but that's the only sign of life
<nebajoth> none of the power+u, power+m key combos worked
<nebajoth> I've tried shorting the usb boot pins underneath the batter
<nebajoth> y
<wolfspraul> do you want to get Debian to work or back to OpenWrt?
<nebajoth> nothing shows up in dmesg or lsusb
<nebajoth> don't much care
<wolfspraul> I cannot help much with Debian, so let's go back to OpenWrt.
<nebajoth> openwrt would be fine
<nebajoth> fine by me
<wolfspraul> take the battery out, unplug the USB cable
<wolfspraul> push the carbonized rubber button against the USB boot pins on the back
<nebajoth> pj
<wolfspraul> try to hit the 2 test pads there with the black rubber, and press down firmly
<nebajoth> oh
<nebajoth> it came with the unit right?
<wolfspraul> yes
<nebajoth> hmmm
<wolfspraul> in a small plastic bag
<nebajoth> I've been using a copper wire
<wolfspraul> hmm
<wolfspraul> ok let's try that then
<nebajoth> so I short the usb boot pins
<wolfspraul> hopefully I guess
<wolfspraul> follow my steps
<wolfspraul> unplug the battery, unplug the USB cable
<nebajoth> done
<wolfspraul> short the USB boot pins with the copper cable
<wolfspraul> then plug in the USB cable
<wolfspraul> normally when the USB cable is plugged in without a battery in the device, it will turn on by itself
<wolfspraul> on the host, run 'lsusb'
<wolfspraul> you can release the USB boot pins 2-3 seconds after plugging in the USB cable
<wolfspraul> the USB boot pins only need to be short right after the CPU is powered, it's when it checks the boot mode
<wolfspraul> in lsusb, you need to see an ID 0x601a:4740
<nebajoth> something new happened
<nebajoth> no lsusb yet
<nebajoth> but the led flashed this time
<nebajoth> that's a good sign
<wolfspraul> run lsusb
<nebajoth> I have "watch lsusb" running
<wolfspraul> does the 601a:4740 ID show up?
<nebajoth> no
<nebajoth> but the short was sketchy
<nebajoth> trying to get a solid connection
<wolfspraul> ok
<nebajoth> sigh
<wolfspraul> I have used aluminum foil successfully, but you need to press it down very hard (I also wrinkled the aluminum foil somehow that worked better)
<nebajoth> I'm going to go look for that carbonized rubber thing
<nebajoth> I probably still have it
<nebajoth> just didn't know waht it was for
<nebajoth> brb
<wolfspraul> in the factory we are using a thin screwdriver
<wolfspraul> but it's a special one with a very conductive tip to be used for such purposes
<wolfspraul> (so it's not a screwdriver actually, more a 'test pad shorter' :-))
<nebajoth> sigh
<nebajoth> not working
<nebajoth> I can get it to flash the red led each time with the tinfoil
<nebajoth> (coudln't find the pad)
<nebajoth> but it doesn't show up in lsusb
<tuxbrain> hi guys
<nebajoth> haha
<nebajoth> got it
<nebajoth> I ALSO had to hit power
<nebajoth> :P
<wolfspraul> tuxbrain: hi there
<tuxbrain> hi wolfspraul
<tuxbrain> and the rest of course
<tuxbrain> I'm totally exhausted , very intense weekend
<wolfspraul> nebajoth: yes sometimes when you plug in the USB cable it won't turn on by itself. so if you don't see the ID in lsusb, you can go back short the USB boot pins again and press the power button.
<wolfspraul> but first you need a way to reliably short the pins, then everything  should be easy
<wolfspraul> guess you have that now...
<wolfspraul> tuxbrain: how was it?
<tuxbrain> just returned from Valencia
<wolfspraul> sold some stuff, found potential future customers?
<tuxbrain> yep
<wolfspraul> learnt something new and fun?
<tuxbrain> yep
<nebajoth> :D
<tuxbrain> the yesterday workshop in Barcelona, was planned to 10 assitance become a macro Arduino party of more than 30
<tuxbrain> a lot of interest in nanonote also
<wolfspraul> tuxbrain: do you feel some people might be interested in SAKC?
<wolfspraul> for the Elphel camera I sent you, I did not include the keys necessary for the screws
<wolfspraul> normally Elphel ships them with every camera but since I had to travel first I couldn't take them (long story)
<tuxbrain> we have to talk about Sack or at least the energy control version I have heared from carlos
<wolfspraul> so you need to buy 4 'hexagon keys', 0.9mm, 1.3mm, 1.5mm, 2.0mm
<tuxbrain> I will search for the tool don't worry
<tuxbrain> will deal with that screws even with nails if necesary
<wolfspraul> tuxbrain: nebajoth bricked his Nano when trying to flash Debian with the pyneo instructions, if I understood him correctly
<tuxbrain> I think people are really not conciouse of what an FPGA means on such device like SACK ,
<nebajoth> wolfspraul: I wonder how much of it was pbkac
<nebajoth> I did it in a hurry
<nebajoth> and I don't remember it taking this long
<nebajoth> so I wonder if I simply forgot to unpack the .ubi
<nebajoth> or something equally silly
<wolfspraul> tuxbrain: oh for sure, I think that's a great opportunity
<wolfspraul> we can (and have to) explain what it means
<wolfspraul> best with small sample apps that people can use as a starting point
<tuxbrain> nebajoth: what rootfs are you trying? I recommend to install a light one
<nebajoth> I'm currently installing pyneo's debian-lenny-mini.ubi
<nebajoth> what are the benefits of an FPGA on SAKC?
<wolfspraul> you program it in Verilog, it's just a very different kind of performance you can generate with that
<steve|m> having a fpga + an cpu is pretty awesome I think
<nebajoth> use case?
<wolfspraul> you can think of an FPGA as a super-parallelized programming language
<steve|m> since you have a flexible "glue logic" directly on the board, there are lots of stuff you can do with it, driving ADCs e.g.
<wolfspraul> nebajoth: anything that requires real-time processing of analog data. the cpu will never be able to handle it.
<nebajoth> aha
<nebajoth> so like your oscilloscope demo
<tuxbrain> nebajoth: in short, you have a blank chip you can install CPU or other kind of chip cores (ethernet, a buch of PWD outputs, complex logical circuitry ...)
<wolfspraul> yes. you can think of verilog as a massively parallel programming language.
<nebajoth> can you point me to a good starters guide for verilog?
<wolfspraul> you can get a lot done on each clock cycle :-)
<wolfspraul> not me unfortunately, I still haven't done any verilog coding myself.
<tuxbrain> nebajoth: is just blank screen after a while?, have you tried the alt+ctrl+F2?
<steve|m> same here, but I think the SAKC is a cool starting platform for this.. you can directly bootstrap the fpga from the cpu which is pretty neat
<steve|m> wolfspraul: when will the sakc be available btw?
<tuxbrain> steve|m:we are trying to do it as best a possible, untill now no release date, but we are on it.
<steve|m> ah, okay.. cool
<wolfspraul> steve|m: there are so many things moving everywhere, we have to be careful a bit
<wolfspraul> most important for me is to make Ben NanoNote software better first
<wolfspraul> most of that will carry over to stuff like SAKC
<wolfspraul> with 'better software' I also mean better documentation, cleaner wiki, etc.
<tuxbrain> usbboot -c "boot"
<tuxbrain> usbboot -c "nerase 0 4096 0 0"
<tuxbrain> usbboot -c "nprog 0 openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-u-boot.bin 0 0 -n"
<tuxbrain> usbboot -c "nprog 1024 openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-uImage.bin 0 0 -n"
<tuxbrain> usbboot -c "nprog 2048 debian-sid.ubi 0 0 -n"
<wolfspraul> steve|m: were you also working on osmocombb?
<tuxbrain> well guys , time to some sleep here, I have "tonge-ache" of preaching about copyleft hardware cu
<nebajoth> I think I know why
<nebajoth> I flashed pyneo's u-boot
<nebajoth> which is for the avt2-board
<nebajoth> its right in the instructions
<nebajoth> I'm just an idiot
<steve|m> wolfspraul: yes, right.. I've got the CECT harald sent my btw
<steve|m> *me
<steve|m> wolfspraul: I figured out the GPIOs used for the flashlight and can do some fancy flickering with the keypad, backlight and flashlight LEDs, but it crashes with my uart driver
<steve|m> wolfspraul: I guess I have to get jtag working
<nebajoth> has anyone gotten bluetooth working on a NN yet?
<wolfspraul> don't think so, haven't hear anything
<wolfspraul> steve|m: hmm, I see
<wolfspraul> well that doesn't sound too bad, seems you are making progress
<steve|m> wolfspraul: yes right, once the initial obstacle of a proper serial communication is overcome, things get more easy.. but the biggest problem is the undocumented Layer1/DSP interface that has to be reverse engineered
<steve|m> wolfspraul: there is leaked sourcecode available for the mtk platform, but this is basically what the phone manufacturers get, so all the GSM and DSP-related stuff is already precompiled
<wolfspraul> steve|m: this is how the 6223 talks to which other chip?
<wolfspraul> or is the DSP running inside the 6223 as well?
<steve|m> wolfspraul: the DSP is inside the 622x, along with its program rom.. basically the same design as the TI Calypso, but the 622x do have the Analog Baseband on-die as well
<steve|m> (which is a second chip on the TI calypso platform)
<steve|m> and there is a shared memory interface between the ARM and DSP core.. so for reverse engineering there are multiple options.. either running the "leaked" firmware and adding some code to constantly dump the shared memory window if possible, or disassemble the MTK libraries (which luckily contain _many_ debug strings), or disassemling the DSP rom code (this is what tnt did with the Calypso rom code), luckily there is IDA support as well for t
<wolfspraul> what are the other 2 chips on the C3100 doing? MTK6139BN and RDA6212+
<steve|m> wolfspraul: the 6139 is the GSM transceiver, the arm communicates over a SPI-protocol with it, telling it the frequency to tune to and so on, it also drives the RDA6212, the Power Amplifier
<wolfspraul> ah OK, thx
<mth> does the NanoNote use alsa-lib (libasound) or only the ALSA device itself?
<kristianpaul> wolfspraul: nice assebling steps of ephel camera
<kristianpaul> nite
<wolfspraul> 'night
<wolfspraul> panda|x201: you were looking for me the other day. How can I help?
<panda|x201> wolfspraul, Hi, I just want you show you this product
<panda|x201> wolfspraul, it looks very like the product I want to build
<urandom_> panda|x201 what price do you aim for yours?
<panda|x201> urandom_, well, I just want to target on "Home Robot", so price should be as lower as possible
<panda|x201> wolfspraul, urandom_ I want to integrated with 3G module
<panda|x201> wolfspraul, urandom_ so that you can operate it from your 3G cell phone
<panda|x201> wolfspraul, urandom_ to supervise old-man, kids and pets at your home remotely
<urandom_> sounds cool, i might buy one if it will be open hardware ;)
<panda|x201> urandom_, well, we will focus on software part, so yes, it should be open hardware,
<panda|x201> out for lunch with families ...