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<Rich_Morin>
Are there any books that give a good introduction to Rake?
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<Rich_Morin>
"Ruby in Practice" has about nine pages.
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<Rich_Morin>
"Rake Task Management Essentials" is a booklet.
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<yorickpeterse>
morning
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<maloik>
question
<maloik>
has there EVER been a point where testing was not a widely accepted method?
<maloik>
(in ruby's lifespan)
<ari-_-e>
method of what?
<maloik>
as in, a way of approaching your projects
<maloik>
I think nowadays everyone agrees your projects should be tested, I'm wondering if there was ever a point where it'd be acceptable not to
<ari-_-e>
I think testing has been a widely accepted part of software development for a long time - whether it actually gets done... that's another question :)
<maloik>
(was mostly a rethorical question to put my mind at ease)
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<yorickpeterse>
maloik: yes
<yorickpeterse>
one-off commandline tools and the likes
<maloik>
I'm guessing that excludes invoiding software
<maloik>
:-(
<maloik>
s/invoiding/invoicing
<yorickpeterse>
Still haven't written tests for that thing?
<maloik>
I'm still trying to figure out the domain logic
<maloik>
like, there no point in testing if a+b=c if I don't know if b should be there in the first place
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<yorickpeterse>
oh yay....rspec 3 requires you to enable the `should` syntax
<yorickpeterse>
ugh
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<yorickpeterse>
now to do this for 44 repositories
<yorickpeterse>
._.
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<sluukkonen>
I still haven't decided if I love or hate rspec
<yorickpeterse>
I consider it "ok"
<yorickpeterse>
I used Bacon for a year or two but changing it's output format is worse than trying to teach a donkey how to drive a car
<yorickpeterse>
Plus rspec's mocking/stubbing is quite nice
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<sluukkonen>
lately (because they keep changing the syntax every goddamn week) I've been leaning on the hate side
<apeiros>
sluukkonen: I decided a couple of years ago that I dislike rspec
<apeiros>
hate is too much for something which I'm gladly not forced to use
<sluukkonen>
yeah hate isn't the correct word here
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<yorickpeterse>
apeiros: so what do you dislike from RSpec?
<yorickpeterse>
Besides the impossible to type constant
<yorickpeterse>
and the Cucumber "documentation"
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<apeiros>
a) that you have to essentially learn a new language for something as simple as testing, b) that this language is ever changing, c) that IMO that language actually makes it harder to follow the tests, and d) it doesn't give me what I want/expect from a test framework
<yorickpeterse>
Hm, if you go full crazy with all the features then yeah
<yorickpeterse>
(e.g. shared examples and all that stuff)
<yorickpeterse>
I guess it's nice that devs over here either don't know about those features or just don't use them
<ari-_-e>
I've found myself disliking the ruby style of DSLs in general
<yorickpeterse>
ari-_-e: careful with your words there :P
<ari-_-e>
or the style that seems to be most popular
<apeiros>
ari-_-e: I like them, a lot. but that doesn't mean they're always appropriately used :-/
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<apeiros>
I mean stuff like AR's migrations are pleasant and intuitive to read
<yorickpeterse>
Oh, don't get me started on that topic
* apeiros
presses some buttons…
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<apeiros>
where *do* I get you started? :)
<yorickpeterse>
so you know how everybody tells you not to use models in migrations right?
<yorickpeterse>
"DON'T USE MODELS!!!! DON'T INSERT DATA FROM MIGRATIONS!!!"
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<yorickpeterse>
Yet nobody actually came up with a decent solution for that
<apeiros>
nobody told me, no :)
<yorickpeterse>
Rails has "seeds" but fuck those
<apeiros>
ah
<yorickpeterse>
if I'm not mistaken those are always run
<yorickpeterse>
So if you run `rake db:seed` 15 times you'll end up with the same data 15 times
<apeiros>
I think seed actually deletes data
<yorickpeterse>
wat
<yorickpeterse>
it nukes the DB first?
<apeiros>
the tables which you seed, yes
<yorickpeterse>
ugh
<apeiros>
so not a good idea to use it on your production tables to *add* data :D
<yorickpeterse>
Yeah...good thing I never tried that I guess
<apeiros>
we have custom stuff for that. but tbh, I often put it in migrations.
<yorickpeterse>
I just slap that in migration then spend quality time making sure model structures are reloaded
<apeiros>
we merge migrations every few months anyway
<yorickpeterse>
Also: AR doesn't support multiple migration tables I think
<apeiros>
reducing them to two migrations + seed data
<yorickpeterse>
so if you have multiple projects migrating the same DB using different migrations all hell breaks loose
<apeiros>
one migration containing all "proper" creates and stuff, and one containing plain executes
<yorickpeterse>
In particular because AR will get super confused about what to stuff in db/schema.rb
<apeiros>
heh, never tried that
<yorickpeterse>
I used Sequel again last week, god I missed that
<yorickpeterse>
It supports all that, and nicely too
<apeiros>
we have schema owning projects for that
<yorickpeterse>
Though getting an equivalent of `rake db:schema:dump` and `rake db:schema:load` is a bit of a hassle
<apeiros>
I think we can't use those due to our execute statements
<yorickpeterse>
oh, RDMS specific stuff?
<apeiros>
which we have to use since rails doesn't have a clue about views f.ex.
<yorickpeterse>
heh, I think Sequel can actually handle that too
<yorickpeterse>
It can do platform independant dumps, and specific ones
<apeiros>
well, if you want to call views RDBMS specific…
<apeiros>
but yes, I guess we have a bit of oracle specific stuff in there.
<yorickpeterse>
ssssshhhh, the database is a black box
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<yorickpeterse>
data goes in, data comes out
<apeiros>
but 99% it's views
<yorickpeterse>
don't ask
<apeiros>
don't tell?
<yorickpeterse>
exactly
<apeiros>
lol
<yorickpeterse>
Who needs foreign keys, views and all that
<ari-_-e>
never a miscommunication
<yorickpeterse>
Just solve all your database constraints on application level
<yorickpeterse>
stuff just works
<apeiros>
oh, current rails creates foreign keys, no?
<yorickpeterse>
No idea, we're still on 3.2
<apeiros>
I think 3.2 already does. if you use t.reference instead of t.integer. not sure, though.
<apeiros>
I still use t.integer + manual fk constraints
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<yorickpeterse>
I remember that at my previous employer they said something like "Don't use foreign keys because it makes deleting tables harder"
<yorickpeterse>
._>
<apeiros>
my team sometimes hates me for that, though :D "Fuck, why can't I delete this record!? OH GAWD DAMIT FK CONSTRAINT! ARGH!"
<ari-_-e>
apeiros: yes, how dare you care about the integrity of your data
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<yorickpeterse>
THE DATABASE IS A BLACK BOX!!11
<DefV>
integrity schmintegrity, as I always sa
<DefV>
probable integrity, that's what I go for
<DefV>
most data is probably correct
* whitequark
slaps DefV around a bit with a large trout
<ari-_-e>
100% correct 50% of the time
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<yorickpeterse>
DefV: I'd like to introduce you to my database
<whitequark>
DefV: he uses mongodb in production
<whitequark>
that's all you need to know about yorickpeterse really
<yorickpeterse>
hey
<yorickpeterse>
don't make me come over
<apeiros>
neeehehehe :)
<yorickpeterse>
no more Mongo, soon (tm)
* apeiros
still hopes to migrate 90% of our daily business from oracle to postgres
<yorickpeterse>
we already made a blood pact at the office not to use Mongo for anything new any more
<whitequark>
so you're being fired then? seeing as they won't have a job for a mongo person anymore
<yorickpeterse>
har har har
<yorickpeterse>
Seriously though, I'll get on that plane and slap you with a trout
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<anon_911>
hi
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<centrx>
!hi
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<matti>
centrx: -> lo
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<anon_911>
anybody looking for some pair programming ?
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<roelof>
ari-_-e: do you have time for me to talk about the problem of this afternoon
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<roelof>
why does this not work ( answer = url.match \w{4,} ) I see this error message : bare backslash only allowed before newline. near line 2: "w{4,}"
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<workmad3>
roelof: because you forgot to wrap your regexp up in // characters
<workmad3>
roelof: so what you have there is a syntax error :P
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<t4nk091>
hello
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<jhass>
hi
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<lewix>
a colleague asked me what can ruby do that js can't - surprisingly I couldn't come up with anything
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<wallerdev>
probably because theyre both turing complete
<wallerdev>
lol
<jhass>
you can hammer in a nail with a screwdriver, it's just a lot easier with a hammer. After all programming languages are just tools. Figure out your demands and choose the appropriate tool
<Rich_Morin>
lewix: Ruby allows me to write code that I enjoy looking at later; JS does not.
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<centrx>
lewix, Theoretically any Turing-complete language can do anything another language can do. The difference is in expressiveness/verbosity, style, and safety.