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<
rqou >
whelp, got zero code written today because i didn't realize that today would become "giant pile of social things" day
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14:47
<
pie__ >
rqou, oh no social things D:
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23:20
<
balrog >
does anyone here have (ancient) xilinx foundation 1.4i?
23:28
<
enriq >
anyone using chisel?
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23:35
<
rqou >
you would expect me to have used it, but nope :P
23:36
<
qu1j0t3 >
enriq: I was interested in it. There's a fork called SpinalHDL that supposedly solves some problems with Chisel.
23:36
<
jn__ >
i'd also expect people who want an answer to stay around, but nope
23:36
<
qu1j0t3 >
enriq is still here :)
23:36
<
jn__ >
i'm just bad at reading, sorry :)
23:37
<
qu1j0t3 >
it looks like it's that time when we list all the High level HDLs
23:37
<
qu1j0t3 >
happens about once a month
23:37
<
jn__ >
enriq: i'm sure some folks in #riscv have used it
23:37
<
enriq >
looks like the correct approach
23:37
<
enriq >
chisel I mean
23:37
<
qu1j0t3 >
enriq: read the SpinalHDL critique first ... there are many options in this space.
23:37
<
enriq >
I'll check SpinalHDL when I feel there are problems
23:37
<
qu1j0t3 >
enriq: Chisel looks great when all you've seen is Chisel (like JavaScript, lol)
23:38
<
enriq >
I'm a scala developer so I like that :)
23:38
<
qu1j0t3 >
enriq: I wouldn't wait until you feel there are problems, I'd do some upfront research and comparisons. there are many tools
23:38
<
qu1j0t3 >
so am I, but that doesn't mean chisel is the best option.
23:39
<
qu1j0t3 >
yeah, i have many broken lances
23:39
<
enriq >
ok I'm checking now
23:39
<
rqou >
i'm pretty sure that (as is typical for UCB software) chisel is designed only for a very specific mindset/coding style
23:39
<
qu1j0t3 >
yeah, and they are often kicked off by disillusioned people ... like frameworks
23:40
<
enriq >
ok chisel sucks
23:40
<
qu1j0t3 >
that was ... fast.
23:41
<
enriq >
what is clear from critics is that chisel is academic and Spinal is real life
23:41
<
qu1j0t3 >
eh i don't see 'academic' as any kind of problem or turnoff.
23:42
<
enriq >
you're right
23:42
<
enriq >
I mean it's like haskell vs scala
23:42
<
qu1j0t3 >
i think the only way to evaluate these things is to take them for a spin
23:42
<
qu1j0t3 >
trying just one is the problem.
23:43
<
enriq >
ok so I abandon my chisel tutorial and go to Spinal
23:43
<
qu1j0t3 >
these aren't the only ones either... there are dozens more.
23:43
<
qu1j0t3 >
but if you're attached to Scala...
23:43
<
enriq >
I trust you blindly
23:44
<
qu1j0t3 >
a terrible idea enriq :)
23:44
<
balrog >
I guess no one has old xilinx tools
23:44
<
qu1j0t3 >
i'm saying trust nobody, do your own evaluations
23:44
<
qu1j0t3 >
balrog: they used to have fairly old ones for download, not so now?
23:44
<
enriq >
I'd rather follow Sancho Panza but he's not around
23:44
<
balrog >
qu1j0t3: I'm looking for pre-ISE
23:44
<
qu1j0t3 >
enriq: Maybe you are he
23:44
<
balrog >
XABEL-CPLD and Foundation
23:44
<
rqou >
balrog: what are you trying to do?
23:45
<
rqou >
if you
_really_ want, i can try poking my father to check for old floppies
23:45
<
balrog >
rqou: figure out just how capable the JED2ABEL tool they included was
23:45
<
enriq >
I also would like to have just the command line tools of xilinx
23:45
<
rqou >
you can use modern ISE from the command line
23:45
<
rqou >
it's incredibly complicated though
23:45
<
balrog >
to decompile JEDs?
23:46
<
balrog >
or you're not tlaking to me?
23:46
<
rqou >
no, to just do normal synthesis (reply to enriq)
23:46
<
enriq >
why you need the old tools? (I'm just ignorant of everything, so just a curious question)
23:46
<
enriq >
because support of some devices?
23:47
<
balrog >
enriq: they included a JED decompiler with some specific old tools
23:47
<
balrog >
and I'm playing with a device that uses several of those chips
23:47
<
enriq >
decompile to what?
23:47
<
balrog >
that may be supported
23:47
<
balrog >
to equations
23:47
<
azonenberg >
You can use Vivado fro mthe command line too
23:47
<
enriq >
I would like that too
23:47
<
rqou >
balrog: xc5000? :P
23:47
<
enriq >
I mean decompile
23:48
<
azonenberg >
but that's even more of a pain in the neck and you have to write lots of tcl
23:48
<
enriq >
as my plan is to compile by hand
23:48
<
balrog >
rqou: xc9536. which I'm not sure is supported
23:48
<
balrog >
(Solution Step 2)
23:49
<
rqou >
hmm "Please note that there is a select list of simple PAL/PLD type devices that can be converted. This does not apply to CPLDs such as the 9500 and XPLA devices." implies it only worked on 22V10s or whatever
23:49
<
enriq >
qu1j0t3 I'm doing only 1 effort to learn some HDL and I like scala. The best shot is Spinal?
23:50
<
balrog >
rqou: yeah, as I said ambiguous
23:50
<
rqou >
just go an RE the 9500 already, it can't be that hard :P
23:51
<
rqou >
yeah, the way i read the AR it's definitely for 22V10s
23:51
<
rqou >
to convert them to something that can work on a newer CPLD
23:52
<
felix_ >
rqou: you got the 34c3 voucher code i sent you?
23:52
<
rqou >
i did, but somehow it hasn't regenerated yet??
23:53
<
felix_ >
they are regenerated once a day for the tickets where the payment is received; might take some time
23:53
<
rqou >
alright, i'm going to be getting a second ticket for my sister though
23:54
<
felix_ >
is there anyone who is active in this project who wants to attend 34c3? if there is maybe give them the voucher first?
23:55
<
azonenberg >
I won't be able to make CCC due to other obligations, sadly
23:55
<
azonenberg >
Will be speaking at hardwear.io if anyone is going there
23:55
<
azonenberg >
and hopefully presenting follow-up work at REcon 2018
23:57
<
rqou >
oh btw balrog: the xc9500 and xc9500xl are pretty different in case you have both types of parts
23:57
<
balrog >
rqou: these are non-xl
23:57
<
balrog >
out of early-00s equipment
23:57
<
balrog >
xc9536 primarily
23:58
<
rqou >
i'm surprised the lock bits aren't set
23:58
<
balrog >
I'm not, the manufacturer was known to leave them unset
23:58
<
balrog >
they also placed JTAG ports and a motorola BDM port in very convenient locations
23:58
<
rqou >
is this a synth or an arcade board?
23:58
<
balrog >
so I was able to connect an old multilinx usb box to the jtag ports and dump them
23:58
<
balrog >
slooooowly
23:58
<
rqou >
ah that makes more sense
23:58
<
balrog >
(yeah, multilinx sucks)
23:59
<
balrog >
(but hey, it was free)
23:59
<
balrog >
a known issue with this synth is that you can plug an expansion ROM board in backwards
23:59
<
balrog >
if you do, it will erase the bootrom