<azonenberg_mobil> also it looks like yosys added preliminary simulation support... going to have to play w that when i get back. it's not yet merged into my fork
<azonenberg_mobil> Clifford hasn't merged any of our recover passes yet, looks like he's still reviewing and possibly editing them
<azonenberg_mobil> but this is a good step toward being able to use yosys as a one stop shop for everything before par
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<pie__> i just had a tiny droplet of solder get on my face
<pie__> dafuq
<pie__> (didnt burn probably because it was way small but dafuq)
<pie__> i am somewhat concerned about my soldering habits or my solder or something
<pie__> never soldering without goggles again
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<Zorix> never had that happen to me and im soldering all the time
<pie__> figures though, i turn the iron on for 5 minutes and already an (presumably almost) accident
<pie__> yeah idk
<pie__> i cant figure out what the failure mode could have been though my lack of experience probably doesnt help
<pie__> i was wiping the iron on my copper sponge
<pie__> but i cant figure out where the blob could have originated
<pie__> the sponge isnt far below eye level though
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<pie__> any joints i could have boiled should have already cooled down
<awygle> yosys simulation support is very interesting. seems not to be positioned against e.g. icarus tho? maybe i'll ask clifford on twitter what his thoughts are
<pie__> awygle, im just guessing here, what kind of sim does icarus do?
<Zorix> the sponge can have a spring like effect, it could flick bits around
<awygle> pie__: Icarus Verilog, it's a verilog simulator
<pie__> Zorix, hm. i guess. i dont think i was being that violent though
<pie__> Zorix, could it have boiled a blob in the sponge?
<awygle> the way clifford describes yosys simulation sounds more like an aid to his formal verification work (which makes sense)
<pie__> i forgot what temp i should be working on, i was it like 380C
<Zorix> hard to know for sure but it could have been a number of things that had to be just right for that to happen
<Zorix> depends on the alloy
<pie__> im good at winning the bad luck lottery
<pie__> well this is something alloy i got a bit of from a friend so i have no idea
<pie__> presumably its leaded
<pie__> theres not much of it but i keep forgetting to buy my own solder lol
<awygle> could have been steam from the sponge pushing the solder
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<Zorix> i think he is using the brass shavings one
<Zorix> which isnt wet
<pie__> ive got an ersa i-con nano
<pie__> its got a gold colored springy sponge
<Zorix> its brass
<pie__> ah brass actually apparently
<Zorix> heh
<pie__> :P
<Zorix> thats actually what you want to use, its better for tip life
<pie__> this stuff has been sitting here unused for months because of LIFE, so i wanted to play a bit tonight
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<Zorix> yep i use the same stuff, in a different holder though
<pie__> yeah me too
<pie__> just that the sponge looks like that
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<Zorix> they all look the same from what i have seen
<pie__> well, in any case im kinda spooked.
<pie__> like, i know this is atypical but still wtf
<Zorix> just be careful
<pie__> i could be doing somethng weird that makes this happen more often
<Zorix> its something that hasnt happened to me and i havent really been all that careful either
<awygle> i am way more paranoid about flux fumes than anything like that. i've grabbed the hot end of an iron. it hurt, but it wasn't the end of the world. (but yeah don't get solder in your eyes)
<pie__> i wouldnt be paranoid if this didnt happen xD
<pie__> so i was trying to make a solder bridge on some veroboard
<Zorix> yea fumes are nasty, i should get a filter.. i just dont breathe in while im soldering and tend to exhale to keep the smoke away
<pie__> didnt really manage to succeed but apparently the solder flowed under the board and bridged on the other side...
<Zorix> you can use clipped leads to help bridging
<pie__> yeah i should probably do some reading homework :P
<pie__> tried to tin a lead with no luck xD
<Zorix> takes certain temperatures to bond to certain metals
<pie__> probably too thick and oxidized or something
<Zorix> copper and tin bonds very well
<Zorix> but something steel it takes a much higher temp
<pie__> yeah this doesnt look like copper
<Zorix> flux is your friend for bad surfaces
<Zorix> there are different types of fluxes you can use
<pie__> well, idk though what it is
<Zorix> activated, organic, etc
<pie__> meh, more shopping list: 1) fan, 2) solder 3) flux 4) safety goggles
<pie__> ive spent too much on random crap this month already xD
<Zorix> hehe
<pie__> guess ill have to stick to breadboard for nwo
<Zorix> id suggest kester solder in the leaded type
* pie__ scratches head
<Zorix> mg chemicals makes good flux and i think they do solder too
<pie__> mmm lead fumes ;P (i hear unleaded is worse)
<Zorix> rohs lead free is difficult to work with, i dont even bother
<pie__> thanks for the reccomendations. hm i should sleep its gotten late
<Zorix> send me a message if you have any questions and ill try to help
<pie__> but at least theres enough space on the table to work on now
<pie__> ok thanks! :)
<Zorix> np
<awygle> rohs isn't so bad :P
<Zorix> the newer alloys are better im told
<Zorix> but it still has a higher melting point
<Zorix> and i think tin whiskers are still an issue, but not likely to affect anything i work on
<awygle> tin whiskers are nuts
<awygle> but i'll take them over slowly going insane from lead poisoning. at least at prototype scale
<Zorix> havent personally seen any but i have seen some pictures
<Zorix> just wash your hands
<Zorix> heh
<Zorix> unless you are licking the pcb i think you will be fine
<awygle> i know lol
<awygle> i'm the most paranoid EE i know by far. should probably get over it to some extent but i bet i outlive some other people in this channel...
<pie__> uh damn going by this i was way hot >_> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/1981
<pie__> awygle, if it doesnt get in the way its probably fin
<pie__> fine
<Zorix> my iron doesnt have a temp sensor on it, just a dial
<pie__> if it makes you do better work, even better probably :P
<Zorix> i put it as low as possible
<pie__> i was goin like 380 degrees
<awygle> i think my iron is set to like... 320. and depsite my earlier comments that's for leaded solder
<Zorix> that would be a bit high.. probably waht you want for lead free though heh
<awygle> mostly for teeny tiny parts
<pie__> though i guess hot is fine as long as youre doing just a normal fast joint
<Zorix> what happens is the tip can oxidize real fast at high temp and you get issues with solder sticking to the tip and just beading off
<awygle> carrots are a bad vegetable for teriyaki sauce
<Zorix> im no EE though, just tend to do repairs a lot
<pie__> ok im off to sleep o/
<Zorix> later then
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<rqou> azonenberg_mobil: i _told_ you simulation functionality in yosys would be useful :P
<azonenberg_mobil> lol well let's see how well it works... lack of secureip support is mildly annoying but inherent in an open source tool
<azonenberg_mobil> but i normally don't model full chips. just my own rtl
<rqou> i wonder whether it has sane "delta cycle" handling
<azonenberg_mobil> I'm more interested in seeing how speed etc compares to say isim
<azonenberg_mobil> I'll be modeling simple behavioral stuff mostly
<rqou> it looks like it runs at a netlist level, so it probably doesn't hit stupid problems with delta cycles
<azonenberg_mobil> integration with yosys asserts will be super useful
<rqou> it's probably slower than other tools though, it looks like "your standard naive event-driven simulation code"
<rqou> but now i really need to get the vhdl frontend done :P
<azonenberg_mobil> yeah but open and tweakable is nice
<rqou> icarus is open and tweakable too
<azonenberg_mobil> yeah but icarus is blah 😛
<rqou> hmm idea
<awygle> lol
<rqou> a sse/avx backend :P
<azonenberg_mobil> also being able to do post synth sim would be nice
<azonenberg_mobil> how would you vectorize a hdl sim?
<rqou> somehow convert the dataflow into a stream of opcodes?
<azonenberg_mobil> i guess you might be able to figure out something. first crack is just emit c, compile, run
<rqou> iirc CVC works this way?
<azonenberg_mobil> do that first... write_c
<rqou> somebody somewhere linked a paper about it
<rqou> anyways, i don't have time to try anything at all until tuesday
<rqou> right now i just have a constant stream of getting rekt by "soft skills" classes :P
<azonenberg_mobil> and I'm in a hotel on the shore with a phone and no computer until sunday... then home for one day of resupply and out in the woods until thursday
<rqou> i have class on sat/sun for maximum amazingness
<azonenberg_mobil> funfun
<azonenberg_mobil> we should add a "behavioral vs post synth" feature down the road
<azonenberg_mobil> that takes in a json netlist and a pile of verilog, simulates both with the same input, then checks for identical outputs
<azonenberg_mobil> and also formal but sim will be good for things formal doesn't handle well
<awygle> CVC does work that way, more or less
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<balrog> hey azonenberg_mobil, hope it's all going well
<balrog> rqou: class on sat/sun? fun :/
<balrog> "soft skills" classes like what? :P
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<balrog> also, ghdl :p
<rqou> only this sat/sun
<rqou> the classes are basically an MBA degree crammed into 8+8 days
<rqou> :P
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<azonenberg_mobil> lool
<balrog> rqou: haaaah
<balrog> btw, another older open-source FPGA:
<balrog> (also done on some mosis process)
<balrog> also using chisel and VTR
<awygle> oh hey, wawrzynek! he's a cool dude
<rqou> taught me cs150 :P
<awygle> me too, and got me an interview afterwards
<awygle> and passed me despite my total lack of deserving to pass :P
<rqou> oh btw cs150 apparently finally got refactored because it had way too much content
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<enriq> I'm lost in the lands of chisel while I should be writting the jed file
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<eduardo_> awygle: the purpose to do simulation with yosys is only to be able to do deeper formal proves. Nothing more.
<eduardo_> Anyone here in need for a 34C3 voucher?
<rqou> balrog?
<balrog> not sure yet
<felix_> maybe ask sb0 if he plans to visit the 34c3? he didn't get a ticket last year
<pie__> how is this year's venue wrt size compared to before?
<jn__> pie__: bigger
<pie__> hm thats good i gues
<jn__> the number of people stays the same, though
<pie__> oh
<jn__> pie__: do you have a ticket?
<pie__> not yet, im still thinking
<pie__> i mean i should probably definitely go :P
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<pie__> and its a few months off anyway so hopefully stuff will stabilize more by then
<pie__> so i guess i shooooul
<pie__> d
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<awygle> eduardo__: thanks for the info :)
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<pointfree> balrog: I'm using a triplestore now: https://github.com/lowfatcomputing/psoc-db ...parsing text files with bash was getting ugly.
<balrog> nice!
<balrog> any chance you can tweak `query` to not require internet?
<balrog> or does that just download it
<balrog> also now we should be able to create an automated testbench
<balrog> basically connect to openocd, reset, set registers, verify result, goto beginning
<pointfree> The contents of the database is in the github repo, not just in 4store on my odroid, so you could install 4store on your local machine and use that as the sparql endpoint.
<balrog> ahh I see,
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<pie__> i am severely confused by this veroboard i bought
<pie__> i think it has soldermask
<pie__> idk how im supposed to bridge
<pie__> dafuq
<jn__> pie__: pics?
<pie__> dont really have a way atm
<pie__> just some pcb veroboardlike things i bought off aliexpress
<jn__> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veroboard <-- that kind of thing?
<pie__> well no lines just vias
<pie__> and green pcb
<jn__> ok, but solder mask on the copper side is weird in any case, i agree
<pie__> i mean idk if its got soldermask per se but its not working
<pie__> xD
<pie__> maybe this stuff was cheap because its useless :P
<jn__> :)
<pie__> i know ive successfully donethis before with something somewhere so its possible
<pie__> but these boards arent cooperating
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