ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
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<cr1901_modern>
Lord_Nightmare: FWIW, onitama is interested in English docs for mucom88
<cr1901_modern>
I'm gonna do the README.md tonight- and by that I mean I'm gonna run it through Google translate and unmangle the output
<cr1901_modern>
Does anyone in here speak Japanese at all? I need something like "This is the English documentation, the Japanese documentation can be found in the file README.md"
<kode54>
my IRC client shows link previews for readme.md
<kode54>
because some shitty personality quiz site owns a redirect from that domain
<cr1901_modern>
Yup I see that in twitter DMs lol
<Xyz_39808>
これは英語のドキュです.日本語のドキュはReadme.mdあります.
<cr1901_modern>
thanks
<Xyz_39808>
probably not perfect. but it gets the job done
<Xyz_39808>
translating mucom has been on the backburner since it came out :|
<Xyz_39808>
no one in mm1's mml server know how to create samples for it. Someone asked koshiro on twitter but afaik never got a response.
<cr1901_modern>
mm1? And as far as I can tell, samples are "just" a binary "blob" of PCM values as they would be stored on a ROM/EPROM/RAM
<cr1901_modern>
Perhaps the tool to generate those PCM values hasn't been released yet
<cr1901_modern>
Unfortunately I don't have a sample library or even individual samples, really. So I can't test.
<cr1901_modern>
Don't most ppl pay for an archive of them that other ppl collected over the years?
<cr1901_modern>
I certainly don't have the acoustics at home to get clean samples
<Xyz_39808>
moviemovies1 (first movie is not plural)
<Lord_Nightmare>
cr1901_modern: did you end up tracing out the timer section on the ym2151? I think its in the very lower left of the die, along the bottom
<Lord_Nightmare>
i have a question about exact behavior and clock edges and what the LOAD bits do
<Lord_Nightmare>
there may be an off-by-1 with timer B in MAME
<cr1901_modern>
Lord_Nightmare: No I haven't had much spoons to do vectorizing lately, can I take a rain check :P?
<Lord_Nightmare>
sure. i asked kevtris if he had one lying around and could test it
<Lord_Nightmare>
if all else fails, I have a dead raiden II board with a ym2151 on it i could desolder, but it'd be way easier if he has a loose one
<cr1901_modern>
Let me know. Yes, kevtris would likely be in a better position to create a test rig right now
<Lord_Nightmare>
I think between the two dead raiden II boards i have here i could make one working one
<Lord_Nightmare>
and i intend to do so at some point
<Lord_Nightmare>
i think one has a blown PPU or SEI1000 ASIC, and the other has one of the cpus dead or unable to start
<l_oliveira>
if you have some program code for Z80 I have this MSX computer with YM2151 on it which can run it
<Lord_Nightmare>
one also has some board damage, so if i can do surfacemount soldering with balrog (assuming he has some free time) I'd love to start poking at the other board and see if we can identify what's wrong and start transplanting components
<l_oliveira>
on the raiden boards if the bg tile ic is blown (the 100 pin one I believe) it fails booting
<l_oliveira>
SEI10200
<l_oliveira>
is that one what you called "PPU" ? On Blood Bros, the board boots without it in place, just have whacky graphics
<Lord_Nightmare>
i think that's the case on one of these
<Lord_Nightmare>
iirc one of them booted to a static glitchy mess and the other booted to a solid blue screen
<cr1901_modern>
I think "PPU" is a Nintendo term, but it's used generically, like how one calls a bandage a Band-Aid
<Lord_Nightmare>
would 'gpu' be better?
<Lord_Nightmare>
i'm hoping the bg asic isn't bad on BOTH of them
<cr1901_modern>
In my head I call them a "tile rasterizer"
<Lord_Nightmare>
that would suck
<cr1901_modern>
:P
<Lord_Nightmare>
I have a working zero team board which uses the same bg asic iirc
<cr1901_modern>
But PPU is fine, I was just making a comment
<Lord_Nightmare>
but i'd really rather not mess with the zt board
<l_oliveira>
I have a Raiden DX board here which has a rotten SEI10200 chip, one of the address lines for the tileset roms died
<l_oliveira>
and the BGs are garbled
<Lord_Nightmare>
honestly, if you're up to repairing pcbs, i could send these to you :P
<l_oliveira>
Seems like Toshiba chips also suffer of bonding wire rotting
<l_oliveira>
Seibu boards have tons of Toshiba customs in them
<Lord_Nightmare>
the pals were removed on one of these pcbs and at least one via got pulled out
<Lord_Nightmare>
that's the damage
<Lord_Nightmare>
so i'd rather scrap that pcb for parts and put the good parts on the other one
<l_oliveira>
that's a good idea
<Lord_Nightmare>
i also want to socket the code roms, mask roms and the z80 and its ROM
<l_oliveira>
have a huge pile of konami boards sent by a customer, most have rotten ASICs
<Lord_Nightmare>
because as you said the toshiba mask roms have bond wire issues, so when they inevitably fail i'd like it to be easy to swap a new one in, or a repro ROM
<l_oliveira>
I found the four players ASIA romset for The Simpsons in one of them
<l_oliveira>
the one that got added to MAME recently
<Lord_Nightmare>
nice!
<l_oliveira>
I was talking of the ASICS but the maskroms also fail (some fauty Neo Geo MVS carts with bad roms)
<Lord_Nightmare>
this doesn't bode well for arcade pcbs with tons of toshiba customs, iirc sega model 1 has at least a few toshiba customs
<l_oliveira>
one thing that may happen with these boards is greenhorns overvoltaging them
<Lord_Nightmare>
mostly hitachi and fujitsu tgps though
<l_oliveira>
hitachi chips are mostly chemically stable
<l_oliveira>
fujitsu ones do fail too (konami like fujitsu parts too)
<l_oliveira>
ricoh
<l_oliveira>
look the CPS1s and CPS2 a boards failing at alarming rates
<l_oliveira>
it's the CPS-A-01 and CPS-B-21 chips failing
<Lord_Nightmare>
hitachi hd647180 chips on toaplan boards though have major bond wire issues, as caps0ff found out, and my personal guess is it is from a bad batch of hd647180 chips which failed factory testing, were slated to be destroyed, but that toaplan got for cheap 'off the back of a truck'
<l_oliveira>
I destroyed CPS2 A boards to fix rare CPS1 games
<l_oliveira>
There's so many here in Brazil it's like grass
<Lord_Nightmare>
whats weird as hell is the hd647180 chips caps0ff bought off ebay/aliexpress/whereever as comparison chips for working on technique for the important chips, those all had perfectly intact bond wires with no issues at all
<l_oliveira>
(CPS2)
<Lord_Nightmare>
it was ONLY the chips from toaplan boards which had problems
<Lord_Nightmare>
so there had to be a bad batch
<l_oliveira>
what if they took the bad chips on purpose
<Lord_Nightmare>
that's what i think
<l_oliveira>
exactly to make the life of bootleggers hell
<Lord_Nightmare>
i think they bought the bad chips from the factory cheap, or possibly under the table from someone at the factory who put on paper that the chips were destroyed
<l_oliveira>
if the chips fail they can service the boards
<Lord_Nightmare>
i guess that's true
<l_oliveira>
and anyone tampering with the boards would have the chips be flakky for them
<Lord_Nightmare>
but getting NOS, un-burned hd647180 chips in the QFP package is near impossible. the PLCC package is much easier to get but doesn't fit and can't be easily adapted to work on a toaplan board
<l_oliveira>
they would then deny service for boards with signals of tampering
<l_oliveira>
you guys got some though, no?
<Lord_Nightmare>
caps0ff found plcc chips, i don't know if they found any qfp ones
<Lord_Nightmare>
the die is the same, only the package is different
<l_oliveira>
I bought four NOS VRC7 chips from China, Arcadehacker mentioned it is possible to buy these CPS customs at utsource
<l_oliveira>
the B-21 at least
<l_oliveira>
I tried to get VRC6s too but no cookie
<cr1901_modern>
Reminds me that I need to buy a VRC at some point (Yahoo auctions)
<cr1901_modern>
Megami Tensei II has a vrc6
<l_oliveira>
no that has a Namco C164
<l_oliveira>
it's Moryou Senki Madara that has the VRC6
<cr1901_modern>
C164?
<l_oliveira>
Moryou Senki Madara, Esper Kids II and Akumajou Densetsu, all the VRC6 games
<cr1901_modern>
Megaten II _does_ have extra channels for music
<l_oliveira>
just three
<l_oliveira>
the C164 is what nes pirates call "namco 106"
<l_oliveira>
"Custom 164"
<l_oliveira>
all namco chips are labeled Csomething (something = a number)
<cr1901_modern>
I don't see how that causes aliasing tho
<l_oliveira>
quantization noise would be the proper name then
<l_oliveira>
it is the same thing on the scc, the vrc6 and the pc engine
<cr1901_modern>
Rule of thumb is for every bit of precision you have, you have a fundament SNR of 6dB * number of bits
<l_oliveira>
it's the spice of their sound lol
<cr1901_modern>
Don't remember how to calculate it
<l_oliveira>
I don't know how many bits the sound on the pc engine has because the dac is internal to the chip
<Xyz_39808>
VRC6 has two pulse and one 14-step saw. N163 was mistakenly called N106 in the early nsf days. N163 is 4bit wavetable with sample lengths between 4 and 240 samples. The number of channels is 1 to 8 but the more you use the less samples you can use for the length. Also there's horrible multiplexer noise when you have 7 or 8 channels because the noise is normally there but is above hearing freq at 1-6 channels enabled.
<cr1901_modern>
why in the world would the noise freq be tied to the number of channels avail
<l_oliveira>
VRC6 is a clone of the NES sound
<Xyz_39808>
less channels to multiplex
<l_oliveira>
but it has that quantization noise thing due to the R2R DAC
<l_oliveira>
simpler clone, that is
<cr1901_modern>
Note the Virtual Boy's noise channel also allows you to specify frequencies above hearing range
<cr1901_modern>
(and that VB is also wavetable based)
<l_oliveira>
since we're talking console audio now, you guys know anything about the GB CPU chip having a testmode pin which allows to disconnect the CPU core from the devices registers?
<Xyz_39808>
n163 doesn't have a noise channel per se, I was referring to the high pitched hiss due to the MUX
<l_oliveira>
disabling the CPU so the registers of the sound and video parts of the chip be accessed from outside of the chip
<cr1901_modern>
Are you referring to the noise inherent in TDM?
<cr1901_modern>
or something else?
<cr1901_modern>
Sarayan explained TDM aliasing noise to me once, the explanation didn't stick b/c I didn't try hard enough LMAO. Maybe someday
<cr1901_modern>
(also the game is so sickenly cute it makes me want to throw up :'D)
<Lord_Nightmare>
cr1901_modern: the n163 is interestingly close to a clone of the konami SCC, except its 4 bits and has no(?) volume control per channel?
<Lord_Nightmare>
while SCC is 8 bits and has vol per channel
<l_oliveira>
that game is worth a pretty penny btw
<cr1901_modern>
I know :(
<Xyz_39808>
there's volume per channel on n163
<l_oliveira>
SCC has 11 bits physically then the excess from 8 is the volume stuff, right?
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<ValleyBell>
>Xyz_39808: VGMrips people "K051649". I hate this
<ValleyBell>
sorry, but I often just go with whatever terms MAME uses when adding stuff to the VGM format :P
<superctr>
K051649 is a valid name though
<superctr>
it's Konami's internal part number
<superctr>
If konami was in the IC business, that would probably the name written on the datasheet, with SCC in parentheses
<superctr>
It does not bother me as much as then they actually get things wrong, using a name they whipped out from nowhere like "SegaPCM" or "MultiPCM" (the latter one probably comes from System 32 Multi where the chip was first found)
<superctr>
actually, the correct name of the chip would be "051649" the K- prefix was never used by Konami, it's a MAME invention
<cr1901_modern>
(AIUI, changing the codepage to 65001 has a tendency to split utf8 buffers being passed around at non-code-point boundaries, and Windoze doesn't handle intra-code-point splits properly)
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