ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
<kode54>
I'd appreciate other people's perspectives on things too
<kode54>
I wouldn't tell them that "LGR did it" but instead "I'd appreciate your perspective on this subject, and probably a lot of other people would, too"
<Lord_Nightmare>
its kind of like how some people get fed up with certain youtube personalities' lack of technical research sometimes
<Lord_Nightmare>
theres definitely different grades of quality
<Lord_Nightmare>
and different grades of presentation
<cr1901_modern>
https://twitter.com/cr1901/status/1115037726494068743 I think this ultimately sums it up. I'm sad I missed out, and yes I do like sharing information about topics that I don't think most ppl know about.
<cr1901_modern>
Call it a character flaw lol
<cr1901_modern>
And there's a line between "liking to share knowledge you don't think most other ppl know" and "wielding knowledge like a cudgel for the sake of asserting superiority in a niche community", and I'm not exactly sure where that line begins and ends
<cr1901_modern>
>its kind of like how some people get fed up with certain youtube personalities' lack of technical research sometimes <-- this is why I can't watch 8-bit guy
<cr1901_modern>
I objectively know that almost nobody watching his vids will give a shit about pedantry, and if I were to go comment on his vids, I would- rightfully so- be called out on said pedantry as wanting to show off.
<cr1901_modern>
mmm okay, "almost nobody" is too strong. The rest still stands tho
<Lord_Nightmare>
some of his videos are pretty decent, but his video about speech synthesis was really poorly researched in my opinion
<ej5>
yeah i think he's aiming for more mainstream techy audiences
<Lord_Nightmare>
he doesn't seem to understand the difference between speech synthesis as a way of producing pre-analyzed speech vs unlimited text to speech where the speech is fully synthesized from arbitrary user supplied text with prosody etc
<cr1901_modern>
I'm not a fan of the "how sprites work" video
<Wohali>
i don't watch any of that crap, but i think all it takes is a statement by whomever "i'm no expert on this, if you want to learn more, go see these other vids"
<Wohali>
but humility is rare in 2019
<Wohali>
just look at most politicians.
<ej5>
heh
<Lord_Nightmare>
how sprites work would be really interesting if done right, starting with pong and its shift counters
<Lord_Nightmare>
which are the earliest 'sprites', unless you count the analog ball in tennis for two and the digital ships in spacewar
<Lord_Nightmare>
but spacewar used a framebuffer
<Lord_Nightmare>
well, a vector buffer
<Lord_Nightmare>
so it isn't exactly sprites
<ej5>
there's a neat venn diagram though. two circles: people who understand sprites and the history thereof, and people who are good at making well-produced youtube videos. these circles don't overlap.
<Lord_Nightmare>
the ball in tennis for two is an analog sprite of sorts
<Lord_Nightmare>
the paddles and ball in pong i'd consider the earliest 'really modern' sprites, even if they're squares
<Wohali>
ej5: again, humility. personalities need to interview the others and do joint videos. i've seen some on this (in way other fields, like math or history)
<Lord_Nightmare>
the first arbitrary sprite would be the ufo and spaceship in computer space
<ej5>
isn't it just a circle generator (tennis for two)
<Lord_Nightmare>
done with diode roms
<Lord_Nightmare>
ej5: it might be, in which case, its not really a sprite, but a precursor to a sprite
<ej5>
what about spacewar on the pdp1?
<ej5>
technically vector, but still
<Lord_Nightmare>
spacewar was vector
<Lord_Nightmare>
i guess those are sprites, but they're not raster sprites
<ej5>
do we even know why they're called sprites?
<Lord_Nightmare>
pong and computer space i'd say was the first raster sprites?
<Lord_Nightmare>
I do not
<Lord_Nightmare>
I have no idea why they're called that
<cr1901_modern>
Wohali: "but humility is rare" niche community drama in a nutshell?
<Lord_Nightmare>
and i'm not afraid to admit it
<ej5>
huh, wikipedia claims it was the ti 9918 vdp
<Wohali>
cr1901_modern: indeed. niche communities are deeply guilty of a) personality worship, and b) loving being a big fish in a small pond
<Lord_Nightmare>
the noughts and crosses symbols on the manchester SSEM though i do not consider sprites
<Lord_Nightmare>
they were dots on a williams storage tube, effectively memory and framebuffer and display all at the same time
<cr1901_modern>
Wohali: I'm not innocent either... I mean I'm kinda sad I missed out on a piece of the vintage computing pie and now basically 2 people are seen as the end-all of all vintage knowledge
<cr1901_modern>
and shit I could use w/ some free donations of vintage crap :D... it would go to a good home
<ej5>
by dumb people lol
<Wohali>
cr1901_modern: why you crave the fame? do you want to "hold court"? it's not like there's money in it
<ej5>
chuckg on vcf is way more knowledgeable than those two on pre 1990s stuff
<cr1901_modern>
ej5: Chuck Guzis is one of the smartest people I know on vintage stuff
<Lord_Nightmare>
this reminds me: when is vcfed gonna fix https on their forums, which is still broken
<Lord_Nightmare>
its 2019 ffs
<cr1901_modern>
Wohali: It's human nature to want attention on a visceral level. This is why I think it's a character flaw
<ej5>
don't they keep having issues with coin miners?
<Wohali>
i always see that as vcf'ed
<cr1901_modern>
The truth it I wouldn't handle the attention well
<Wohali>
like it's a swear word
<ej5>
ALSO i really enjoy being able to browse it on my amiga.
<cr1901_modern>
Someone will come up w/ an SSL accelerator sooner or later to bypass the https problem
<cr1901_modern>
the truth is*
<ej5>
there's a port of openssl on the amiga, but none of the amiga browsers support it yet lol
<cr1901_modern>
oh, problem "solved" lmao
<ej5>
the best part: there's a browser that's slated to support it in the next few months. but it's a commercial product.
<ej5>
an amiga web browser. commercial product. let that sink in.
<Wohali>
lolol
<Wohali>
well that company is making brand new A4000 mobos
<cr1901_modern>
in the DOS world, I've basically concluded the most painless way to solve the https problem is to create a battery powered dongle running a C-friendly core (riscv? arm?) w/ a bearssl port and a handshake protocol over the LPT port
<ej5>
why not proxy it
<Wohali>
^^^
<cr1901_modern>
b/c I find it viscerally displeasing
<ej5>
? you can use mtcp and then proxy over your lan
<cr1901_modern>
I... don't find it enjoyable to use a computer (read raspberry pi) several times more powerful to retrofit an old machine.
<cr1901_modern>
I mean bad enough these machines have to ultimately talk to servers thousands of times more powerful :P
<cr1901_modern>
Plenty of old 8-bit computers had coprocessors that were as powerful or perhaps even more so than the computer itself. Commodore disk drive is an example in the thread.
<ej5>
don't forget the apple laserwriter.
<cr1901_modern>
Oh, what's in the laserwriter?
<ej5>
68K running at a higher clock than the mac
<cr1901_modern>
Hahaha awesome!
<cr1901_modern>
ej5: Anyways, a CPU that's slightly more powerful doing work ill-suited to the 8-bit computer as a coprocessor is an aesthetic (tm) I like.
<Wohali>
i mean, unless you're browsing to another machine on your local network, you're using ghz processors all along the network to wherever else
<Wohali>
and even then your switch is probably running at ghz
<Wohali>
this is inches away from period capacitors :P
<cr1901_modern>
That's a terrible idea
<Wohali>
imo, scsi2sd is a necessary evil. having lived with oodles of dying hdds, floppies, etc. relying on them 100% of the time is asking for data loss, possibly permanent
<ej5>
yeah...
* ej5
still uses floppy disks though
<ej5>
mostly just for data transfer
<cr1901_modern>
I mean sure, eventually all my hard disks will die. And since nobody is probably ever going to make an open source MFM drive, XTIDE and SD cards will be a concession I have to make
<ej5>
hmm, an open source MFM drive...
<cr1901_modern>
I would be _very_ surprised if someone had access to equipment to make one of these
<Wohali>
home floppies
<ej5>
hardest part would be making the platters and heads i think.
<cr1901_modern>
r/w head would be hell to make
<cr1901_modern>
platters prob less so
<ej5>
platters would be reasonably doable, but the head would be quite tricky
<Wohali>
i mean, home vinyl is possible. maybe we need vinyl based storage.
<cr1901_modern>
home floppies I think someone will eventually do lol
<Wohali>
you could replace the head with a magnetoscope instead
<Wohali>
if the density is low enough you can just view it directly
<ej5>
hmm, or some sort of thin film design maybe
<cr1901_modern>
but isn't vinyl kinda... write-once?
<ej5>
sintered ferrites would be a challenge.
<Wohali>
i know LCM is using that for media retrieval
<Wohali>
cr1901_modern: ;) low-tech CDROM!
<cr1901_modern>
oh right, open CD-ROM manufacture would be interesting
<cr1901_modern>
and not the burning method while fools CD-ROM drives, but actually _making_ the pits
<ej5>
i should dig through some of my old hard disk heads
<ej5>
maybe some of the 60's stuff could be duplicated
<cr1901_modern>
time to dissect it?
<ej5>
i'm not cutting up any of those lol
<cr1901_modern>
ej5: You have access to the RAMAC at all? I think some of the designers are still alive
<ej5>
i'm related to one of the designers :P
<ej5>
and i have a few RAMAC heads :P
<cr1901_modern>
Ahhh no kidding!
<ej5>
sadly he passed away a few years ago, but his boss is still around IIRC
<cr1901_modern>
That makes things easier. Just ask/figure out what the heads were made out of and perhaps if any documentation on how they were constructed survives LOL :P
<cr1901_modern>
"Just"
<ej5>
i bet the CHM has a bunch of the docs
<ej5>
but those early heads were pretty primitive and required compressed air
<ej5>
i'll have to tweet some photos at some point
<cr1901_modern>
looking forward to it
<futarisIRCcloud>
5MB of data in a one ton drive.
<cr1901_modern>
Now all we need is an open source "my first fission reactor" kit and "my first IC fabricator" kit :3
<cr1901_modern>
As opposed to having a single "read" and "write" function per core that the rest of libvgm-emu calls
<cr1901_modern>
I see RWF_READ, RWF_WRITE, RWF_QUICKREAD, etc. And not all cores implement more than RWF_{READ, WRITE}
<cr1901_modern>
does that mean the abstraction over all the cores chokes if it needs, e.g. a "RWF_QUICKREAD" function then and there, but the core doesn't support it?
<cr1901_modern>
ValleyBell: Better question- is there an absolute minimum number of r/w functions that a libvgm core _must_ support? from the list of RWF_* given in EmuStructs.h?
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<Wohali>
cr1901_modern: PCBs arrive, more to come
<Wohali>
they look good!
<cr1901_modern>
Wohali: Beautiful, thanks!
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<Wohali>
cr1901_modern: i should be able to get shipping estimates to the 4-5 countries people were interested in and get the shopping cart up this week.
<cr1901_modern>
you are amazing :D!
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<whitequark>
ej5: cross section requests: quartz crystal and ceramic resonator
<whitequark>
esp the latter
<whitequark>
i have no idea what's inside
<ej5>
hmm, ceramic resonator could be tasty
<Ultrasauce>
oh youre tubetime. didnt realize you were here