00:10 <Foone_> I'm looking into the issue of the 8051 and dumping the ROM out of it (in idle time). is there any info on exactly which model it is?

00:20 <Foone_> whitequark reminded me of this because she mentioned finding something with an 8032 in it

00:24 <cr1901_modern> Looks like it's an 80C51?

00:26 <Foone_> right, but there are a bunch of variations of that chip. if it's got protection turned on it's gotta be one of the -H submodels, so 8031AH, 8051AH, 8051AHP, 8751H, 8751H-8, 8032AH, 8052AH, or 8752BH. although that assumes it's from intel, which in hindsight I guess it can't be: none of those have a DSP onboard.

00:27 <cr1901_modern> Foone_: DSP is a misnomer

00:27 <Foone_> it's also got no external rom so it can't be 8031AH or 8032AH, as they have no on-chip storage and the ROM for the thing has to live somewhere

00:28 <cr1901_modern> The "DSP" is essentially a "8237 DMA protocol implemented in software plus DAC/ADC control"

00:28 <whitequark> Foone_: i mean, glasgow has a 8051 in it

00:28 <whitequark> did you know

00:28 <Foone_> of course it does

00:28 <whitequark> you even have a few KB of free space

00:30 <Foone_> my favorite "it has an 8051" thing? The Mark-Super-7 Quantum E-Meter

00:30 <Foone_> used by Scientology for auditing. something about a religion needing to use an 8051 is hilarious to me.

00:30 <whitequark> lol

00:30 <Foone_> although the unit that Play With Junk took apart (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGBPn9arfVo) actually uses an ARM chip that is emulating an 8051 stuck into the 8051 socket

00:31 <whitequark> what.

00:31 <Foone_> which is even funnier. the idea that someone somewhere had to figure out how to retrofit a more modern processor into an 8051 socket to continue running old code. you know, for religious reasons.

00:33 <Foone_> I would make a joke about how that's silly because no one sees 8051 assembly and still believes there's a God but I'm not sure scientologists believe in a god?

00:42 <Foone_> in any case, since it's not an EPROM, it'd have to be an 8051AH/8051AHP or a 8052AH.

00:43 <whitequark> >that's silly because no one sees 8051 assembly

00:43 <whitequark> and still believes there's a God

00:43 <whitequark> i laughed out loud at that

00:43 <Foone_> ahh, to be an 8052AH it'd have 44 pins. it's 40, so it's clearly not.

00:46 <Foone_> so it looks like there's two protection bits: LB1 & LB2. With a protected chip and both unprogrammed, you only have Minimum Program Lock

00:46 <Foone_> which means that when you try to verify the ROM, you get it, but XORed through a 32-byte-key

00:47 <Foone_> with LB1 on, MOVC instructions located in external memory can't pull code bytes from internal memory, EA is sampled and latched on reset, and you can't reprogram the EPROM (which doesn't matter here)

00:48 <Foone_> and with both on, you get all the limitations of LB1 being on, but without any Verify at all

00:49 <whitequark> so you need a read primitive in the firmware?

00:49 <Foone_> EA enables access to external program memory. so if it's latched on always, your external memory is always going to override the internal memory until you reset the CPU

00:50 <Foone_> yeah. and given how paranoid creative was about anyone figuring out how the sound blaster works, I doubt they included one

00:51 <Foone_> on the other hand, the 1.0 DSP takes 1-byte commands and only 20 of them are defined. Could always fuzz the others

00:54 <cr1901_modern> >Could always fuzz the others

00:54 <cr1901_modern> The SNES DSP-1 had a debug command to read out the data ROM contents... worth a shot

01:19 <cr1901_modern> Finally getting over being sick. I hope within the next few days I'll be able to think/critically use my brain for more than 20 minutes at a time.

01:24 <Wohali> \o/

01:24 <Wohali> cr1901_modern: your snark barker went out yesterday

01:24 <Wohali> plural, sorry

01:26 <cr1901_modern> Wohali: yay, tyvm :D

01:43 <Foone_> now that I have 3 snark barker boards I clearly need more, and I want to build one with one of these on it: https://www.mouser.com/images/electronicassembly/lrg/ea_w096016-xalw_SPL.jpg

01:44 <Foone_> so instead of having a silkscreened "SNARK BARKER" or "SNOOD BLOOBER" it'll be able to dynamically select from a large selection of names on power-up

01:45 <cr1901_modern> I think we discussed this before :P?

01:47 <Foone_> probably! I mentioned it

01:51 <whitequark> SNOOT BOOPER

01:52 <cr1901_modern> SUPER BLOOPER

01:54 <Foone_> SWAMP BADGER

01:54 <Foone_> well now I know what my fursona is

02:23 <cr1901_modern> Well because I have no life, I just spent 30 minutes looking up where a specific bridge was I saw in a YT video... and succeeded

02:24 <cr1901_modern> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boone_Bridge_2 For all you bridge enthusiasts in here

02:25 <Wohali> i saw a very cool bridge when in idaho irecently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perrine_Bridge

02:25 <Wohali> saw a couple of BASE jumpers jump off of it

02:26 <cr1901_modern> That postcard is very pretty

02:27 <Wohali> it's only 2 miles from where Evil Kneival tried to jump the gorge in the 70s

03:54 <TD-Linux> Foone_, e-ink would also be an option. that way the name would stick even when powered off.

04:02 <Foone_> good plan. do they make e-ink displays that tiny, though?

04:03 <TD-Linux> yeah they do!

04:03 <TD-Linux> I actually made a watch with one

04:04 <TD-Linux> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pervasive-displays/E2200CS021/E2200CS021-ND/6821164

04:04 <TD-Linux> unfortunately they do need a bit more board area because you need a bunch of boost caps

04:13 <whitequark> oh PDI

04:14 <whitequark> glasgow supports one of those :3

04:16 <TD-Linux> they are nice, though a bit weird. also you can burn them in if you aren't careful with the drive pattern

04:17 <whitequark> are you sure?

04:17 <whitequark> i experimented with the drive pattern a lot and never got any burn in that i can see

04:17 <TD-Linux> yes. I managed to burn in a couple

04:17 <whitequark> huh.

04:17 <TD-Linux> you have to be pretty bad though

04:18 <TD-Linux> on my watch I decided that I didn't want to see a flash every minute so just did a full refresh every 15 minutes, otherwise I just wrote the plain image

04:19 <TD-Linux> so I did thousands of refreshes in one direction. I think it's important to have the drive sort of dc balanced. if you look at the recommended refresh it's careful to be balanced

04:20 <TD-Linux> you have 2 bits per pixel, you can drive it white, black, or not drive it. I *should* have just driven the pixels I needed white or black and not the rest

04:20 <whitequark> ohh i see

04:20 <whitequark> have you seen me disassembling these displays btw?

04:20 <TD-Linux> no! that would be neat

04:21 <TD-Linux> they already look kinda cool from just what you can see on the outside

04:21 <TD-Linux> btw all of them are the same driver chip

04:21 <whitequark> https://twitter.com/whitequark/status/1102556142176268289

04:23 <whitequark> https://twitter.com/whitequark/status/1102579117592068097

05:52 <superctr_> <cr1901_modern> superctr_: This is how it sounds (linked time) https://youtu.be/g8gZT1F9UkE?t=214 <- it could be worse, it could be that Tetris bootleg with the doorbell chip

15:35 <Lord_Nightmare> http://siliconpr0n.org/archive/doku.php?id=vendor:yamaha

15:36 <Lord_Nightmare> who was it who linked me to that yamaha financial doc which showed their fab they owned since 1995-96 was losing massive amounts of money?

15:36 <Lord_Nightmare> I think they sold it to phenitec semiconductor corp in 2015 but that might have been something else

15:37 <Lord_Nightmare> so yamaha was fabless until 1996, and from 2015 onward they're fabless again?

16:56 <Lord_Nightmare> "Yamaha was a fabless vendor until 1994, when they purchased a silicon fab plant from (???). Likely due to yearly losses (insert link here), Yamaha sold this fab plant to Phenitec Semiconductor Corp in 2015 (see https://www.phenitec.co.jp/en/company/profile.php ). Yamaha primarily has other chip manufacturers do all of their silicon fabrication and packaging. Examples being Fujitsu, Sharp, Hitachi, ROHM."

17:52 <Sarayan> hey whitequark, are you around?

18:17 <whitequark> Sarayan: yes

18:23 <Sarayan> whitequark: https://og.kervella.org/found.jpg

18:29 <whitequark> Sarayan: NICE

18:35 <whitequark> Sarayan: so, what are you going to do with it?

18:46 <Lord_Nightmare> oh WOW, that's an ORIGINAL SC-01, the much rarer type

18:47 <Lord_Nightmare> i'm guessing the underside of the package is stamped "M336" which is the die id for the sc-01 non-A

18:47 <Lord_Nightmare> the sc-01A has a die id of M456

18:48 <Lord_Nightmare> see http://siliconpr0n.org/map/votrax/sc-01/mz_ogoun/ vs http://siliconpr0n.org/map/votrax/sc-01-a/mz_mit20x/

18:49 <Lord_Nightmare> I'm not sure exactly why SSi/Votrax made the changes they did between the sc-01 non-a and A versions, but Sarayan can probably explain the changes far better than I can

18:50 <Lord_Nightmare> IIRC its mostly in the final output stage which was totally redesigned to use 2 analog components on-die instead of 4, plus a minor change to one particular element in the parameter ROM array for multiple phonemes. I don't know what else changed but iirc at least one other thing did

18:51 <Lord_Nightmare> the only sc-01 non-A i've ever seen, other than in pics from junoman who has a q-bert with one in it, is the one sent to ogoun which he decapped, and is linked on siliconpr0n

18:51 <Lord_Nightmare> that specific chip came from silvio finotti, and it was dead when he sent it, had a vcc->gnd internal short

18:51 <Lord_Nightmare> if you look at the decap you can see a lot of damage and delamination in the final output stage, so i assume it had ESD damage to its output which fried it

18:52 <Lord_Nightmare> (/offtopic)

19:08 <Sarayan> whitequark: send it to you tomorrow, obviously

19:09 <Sarayan> The address hasn't changed, right?

19:11 <whitequark> Sarayan: yep, same address

19:32 <Sarayan> perfect