ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
<cr1901_modern>
protosphere: Happy Birthday! This would be the part where I coded up a "Happy Birthday to You" OPL2 tune in Adlib tracker and upload it to wq's player... if I knew how to use Adlib tracker
<cr1901_modern>
EVE: Burst Error is also a very good VN
<fseidel>
it's really cool to see what the crazier FM waveforms look like
<cr1901_modern>
I find Umemoto has a very distinct patch set he used
<fseidel>
yeah, his stuff all sounds similar
<fseidel>
not in a repetitive or lazy way
<fseidel>
he just has some patches he REALLY liked
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<Xyz_39809>
`ooo
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<cr1901_modern>
ej5: I never lost the joystick to my gravis pad... it just broke off ._.
<cr1901_modern>
and a small sliver is stuck in the center
<cr1901_modern>
I'm... not a huge fan of gravis pads
<ej5>
some people seem to be lol
<cr1901_modern>
The game port joystick I typically use is one of those meant for Flight Simulator
<cr1901_modern>
And of course I have a PlayStation-clone USB joypad that I should prob make a gameport adapter for
<cr1901_modern>
... actually, that would probably suck to make
<ej5>
haha
<cr1901_modern>
(I would have to emulate a USB host that only knows how to handle joypads and then output buttons on the microcontroller DAC which is probably out of range for the game port)
<whitequark>
there are USB host ICs
<whitequark>
for this kind of thing
<whitequark>
you drive them via SPI from something like arduino
<ej5>
max3421?
<TD-Linux>
just don't use the ftdi version, but you probably knew that already
<whitequark>
ej5: yeah
<whitequark>
i forgot what it was
<whitequark>
i think it's a relabeled uhm
<cr1901_modern>
... oh, so there are. I thought these SPI to USB chips only allowed you to do device stuff
<whitequark>
no, not sure which, but i think it's a relabeled pic16?
<whitequark>
this is a COTS device that does what you want
<whitequark>
ha, it actually does PS3/4 controllers
<cr1901_modern>
Huh... there IS indeed a chip for it (tm)
<whitequark>
it's a uc preprogrammed for that task
<whitequark>
i'd go for the maxim personally as it's not proprietary
<ej5>
but if you run into trouble with it, you're not getting any support from maxim. nobody there knows how it works anymore
<whitequark>
you aren't getting any support from hobbytronics either methinks
<cr1901_modern>
>nobody there knows how it works anymore <-- ouch
<whitequark>
ej5: wait
<whitequark>
did i talk to you about maxim on the other channel a few months ago
<ej5>
quite likely
<whitequark>
ohhh *click*
<ej5>
also it's true, the designer left the company and they never really had apps people trained on how it worked
<whitequark>
this kind of reaffirms my commitment to never design in a maxim part tbh
<ej5>
meh, all chip companies are like that
<ej5>
TI does the same thing. "oh the one guy who knew how that worked has left, so you're screwed"
<whitequark>
huh.
<whitequark>
what makes it worse is when you go to ti you usually get something common but when you go to maxim you usually get a single chip solution for doing exactly what you want that isn't available anywhere else
<whitequark>
i mean, exemplified by the conversation above
<ej5>
my biggest gripe with maxim is that their digikey pricing is ridiculous
<whitequark>
i think every time i was tempted by a maxim part it was something extremely specific
<whitequark>
and the alternative would be a uc or an fpga and a bunch of analog shit possibly
<ej5>
a part that should sell for $1 goes for $8.45 on digikey, and sells to large OEMs for $0.20, and costs $0.10 to make
<whitequark>
ok that's stupid
<whitequark>
why
<ej5>
to make moooneeyyy
<ej5>
while i was there i leaned pretty hard on my bosses to fix their <100 quantity pricing
<whitequark>
how much money can you make off hobbyists getting parts from digikey
<ej5>
but nobody really cared to change it, and then microchip figured it out first
<ej5>
<100 quantities on digikey is basically an engineering sample program
<ej5>
if you make the parts expensive then the engineers will just pick someone else
<whitequark>
normal semiconductor companies give you the samples for free
<ej5>
like microchip, who has ultra low cost low quantity devices, but makes up the difference on the higher volume prices
<whitequark>
a decade ago ti would overnight them to moscow
<whitequark>
not sure if they still do it
<ej5>
yeah maxim will send you two samples of something for free.
<ej5>
even if you're a hobbyist
<ej5>
anyways, going afk, bbl
<whitequark>
ah
<cr1901_modern>
TI got wise to hobbyists asking for free samples lol
<cr1901_modern>
I used to use my uni email, now I use my actual business one
<whitequark>
oh, the guy who got samples from TI a decade ago lied about having a business, of course
<cr1901_modern>
hahaha
<whitequark>
i mean, it's russia, what do you expect
<whitequark>
i lied about it too
<whitequark>
though for some other reason iirc
<cr1901_modern>
dunno what I'd expect... still puts a smile on my face
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<cr1901_modern>
I mostly got my free TI parts when I was making my keyboard converter. Plus an I2C port expander that I put to use exactly once and now sits in its packaging next to the alarm clock.
<cr1901_modern>
WHat do you typically need TI parts for?
<Lord_Nightmare>
cr1901_modern: i have a gravis gamepad i got off ebay for cheap which has the broken off stump of the joystick in it as well
<cr1901_modern>
of course, game port IIRC only allows two buttons and two DoF
<cr1901_modern>
for each player*
<cr1901_modern>
gravis gamepad gets around this by using the two buttons meant for player two for player one instead _IIRC_
<cr1901_modern>
fun fact that half the room probably knows- the game port was originally meant to be a low-speed analog DAQ unit. IBM's original card for the game port has a prototype area for your own custom circuits
<whitequark>
that's... more hackable than today's PCs
<cr1901_modern>
In the case of the linked game port adapter, you'd have to jumper wires to the 558. Which is after the addr decoding circuitry.
<l_oliveira>
yesterday I went about it and implemented the VRC7 on MSX with a proper cartridge (only the digital parts of it are complete, there is no analog circuitry yet)
<l_oliveira>
L channel is VRC7, R channel is YM2413. percussion from YM2413 is mixed on both channels and AY-3-8910 from the computer is mixed externally with a mixer
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<cr1901_modern>
Is this the end credits to some game?
<l_oliveira>
no, it's a music player for MSX2 called "Performer OPX"
<l_oliveira>
sort of a MML compiler kit
<l_oliveira>
the source music might be
<cr1901_modern>
it sounds like end credits lol
<l_oliveira>
I am using a international computer without kanji font so it shows white blocks instead of kanji
<cr1901_modern>
Reminds me a bit of "you look wonderful tonight" by clapton
<l_oliveira>
I like how the different rom on the VRC7 makes it sound different than what it is intended to
<l_oliveira>
I'll post pictures of the hardware later on in twitter
<cr1901_modern>
My hot take is VRC7 instrument set is strictly superior
<l_oliveira>
last time I played with this chip on MSX was 2012
<l_oliveira>
I didn't get even close to build something like I did this time
<cr1901_modern>
why is the VRC7 circuitry so much more involved than the YM2413?
<l_oliveira>
because it's purpose is different
<l_oliveira>
it's a multi function chip, designed to a motorola style bus (6502) and I am tying it to a machine with Intel style bus (Z80)
<cr1901_modern>
I meant the analog frontend specifically, but fair
<l_oliveira>
the analog part is just a single op amp
<l_oliveira>
because I have two chips I need to make two of that circuit and build a mixing circuit a cart using just the YM2413 would not need
<cr1901_modern>
I just recall you mentioning that the circuitry required to actually make sound from a VRC7 is involved
<cr1901_modern>
(although the 2413 application manual provides an analog frontend circuit one can use)
<l_oliveira>
the circuit is only involved because the chip is not meant to be used this way hehe
<l_oliveira>
the YM2413 is and therefore the circuitry for a msx music cartridge using it is pretty darn simple actually
<cr1901_modern>
Rust bindings to libvgm are more difficult than I thought. Hard to know the correct granularity for where to call into the C code... tempted to use trait objects for everything