ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
<ValleyBell>
yes
<ValleyBell>
I'll probably do so tomorrow.
<ValleyBell>
(or rather "today", because it's already past midnight here)
<ValleyBell>
I really love those themes. Best one is the credits theme, IMO. (The one playing during stream's closing screen.)
<cr1901_modern>
I prob like Carnival Night the best
<andlabs>
I miss the days when I could care about sonic prototypes tbh, and the micheal jackson crap is never gonna die
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<cr1901_modern>
andlabs: I don't see why you're so negative about it... I was really happy to hear official Genesis versions of the PC tracks for the first time.
<cr1901_modern>
And even if the MJ crap never dies, it's kinda hard to miss that Brad Buxer reused a track he wrote in the 80s for the game
<cr1901_modern>
This looks like exactly what I want, thanks
<cr1901_modern>
Oh right, I forgot... the only meaningful Sonic prototype _for me_ that hasn't been dumped is R2 Sonic CD. Which I'm not convinced exists anymore. It blows my mind the Sonic 3 proto EPROMs still existed at all. Did the magazine who got access to it steal it or something ._.?
<KitsuWhooa>
Do we even know if R2 even made it past the concept stage?
<cr1901_modern>
It would be weird for the level select to skip R2 if it didn't IMO
<andlabs>
sonic 3 had weird development
<andlabs>
sonic 2 also had weird development but for an entirely different reason
<KitsuWhooa>
cr1901_modern: they did say that each person was assigned their own zone, so the menu and everything needed to connect the zones together would've started before they would've been made I think
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<protosphere>
cr1901_modern1: the carnival night zone theme in the sonic 3 proto is sooo good
<cr1901_modern1>
Those are the themes I grew up with, having played the PC port in 97-99
<cr1901_modern1>
I'm so freaking happy/validated to hear what the originally sounded like. Launch base is my fave
<cr1901_modern1>
Oh and the credits theme
<protosphere>
i was trying to run the pc version to see what midi would sound like on an 88pro
<protosphere>
but it runs too fast on a modern pc
<cr1901_modern1>
need to enable 256 color mode
<cr1901_modern1>
so that the game locks to vsync
<protosphere>
ohhh I knew it'd be something like that
<protosphere>
thanks
<protosphere>
nope that didn't work
<protosphere>
(slightly off-topic i guess too)
<cr1901_modern1>
have you enabled full screen?
<cr1901_modern1>
that might also help
<protosphere>
oh there we go
<KitsuWhooa>
I thought there was a patch for it?
<cr1901_modern1>
There is, but I've never used it
<protosphere>
argh the midi is fixed to device 0
<protosphere>
thanks for removing midi mapper microsoft
<cr1901_modern1>
I'm just going by what 10yo me did in 2000 :P
<protosphere>
that breaks sooooo many old games when you're trying to use midi hw
<protosphere>
device 0 used to be the mapper but is now the gs synth
<protosphere>
(software one)
<cr1901_modern1>
I guess the official story is that all the music for Sonic 3 was ready, then they got MJ/Brad Buxer's contributions, and set aside the original music just in case.
<cr1901_modern1>
Then a legal shitshow ensued, and they reused the original music
<cr1901_modern1>
for the PC port
<fseidel>
I think I prefer proto over final for everything but icecap
<fseidel>
also, stranger in moscow credits is pretty darned good, the proto/pc credits theme isn't bad but not quite as good
<cr1901_modern1>
icecap indeed needs work. I've always liked the pc credits _slightly_ more than the Genesis final
<cr1901_modern1>
But I'm just feeling validated tonight LOL
<fseidel>
cr1901_modern1: RE: sonic protos, I'd still love to see toy show sonic 1
<fseidel>
or really any proto S1
<fseidel>
I doubt we'll ever get it, Naka said it's lost
<fseidel>
but I'm super curious about what sorts of bizarre stuff they changed
<fseidel>
or considered doing
<cr1901_modern1>
I don't believe they exist anymore :/.
<fseidel>
someone recently found a Sega TeraDrive disk with a sonic + madonna image on it
<cr1901_modern1>
Oh?
<fseidel>
so there's still hope that something super old might wash up
<fseidel>
the rotozooming looks like shit, hardly demoscene quality :-P
<protosphere>
reminds me of the sega cd 2 bios
<protosphere>
"look, we can spin the sega logo!"
<fseidel>
it's a lot smoother there though
<cr1901_modern1>
fseidel: I don't remember hearing that Sonic 1 protos were _lost_. I do remember hearing the Sonic 1 source code no longer exists.
<cr1901_modern1>
(Prob b/c it became Sonic 2 and no one create proper backups)
<fseidel>
naka apparently tried finding the tokyo toy show S1 demo to package with Sonic Gems Collection but couldn't find it in Sega's archives
<cr1901_modern1>
ahhh :(
<cr1901_modern1>
I'm under the impression that EPROM burns for carts were in fact rare and most development was done against the dev kits at the time. And EPROMs got reused.
<cr1901_modern1>
This is e.g. why Sonic Spinball has some Sub Terrania data at the end of it
<cr1901_modern1>
(Also HOLY SHIT that game is hard)
<fseidel>
(assuming you mean ST and not spinball, it's pretty fun when set on easy)
<cr1901_modern1>
I can't get past the water levels even on easy. The gravity becomes too high.
<cr1901_modern1>
http://www.nintendoplayer.com/unreleased/sonic-crackers/ Also, sometimes EPROMs didn't exist at all internally within Sega. At least that's how I interpret this article; someone took a disk image of the Sonic Crackers tech demo and imaged it for some friends.
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<cr1901_modern>
protosphere: The sega cd 1 bios (American version) is much better IMO :P. It's obnoxious in a good way how proud Sega was that they had a sprite scaler/rotator.
<cr1901_modern>
And how much in love w/ their own logo they are...
<cr1901_modern>
Also TIL that a Sega CD 2 can be used w/ Model 1 Genesis
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<protosphere>
Yeah, it comes with an extension piece you screw on to fit the model 1
<protosphere>
which is usually missing, I was lucky-ish to just stumble upon one with it still there
<KitsuWhooa>
you don't really need it
<KitsuWhooa>
looks a bit odd, but that's about it :p
<cr1901_modern>
I'd like a model 2 power base converter at some point
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<ValleyBell>
cr1901_modern: You'll get the VGMs when all other people do, because I'll log them using SMPSPlay in a single run.
<ValleyBell>
I just ripped all the SMPS files + DAC samples.
<ValleyBell>
However, some of the sequences sound a bit weird in SMPSPlay using S3 final sound driver settings.
<ValleyBell>
I'll analyse the sound driver and look what differences there are.
<ValleyBell>
maybe it uses stuff that was broken/changed in S3 final
<ValleyBell>
S3's sound driver has a number of breaking changes from the "standard" SMPS Z80 sound driver.
<ValleyBell>
andlabs: Many of the cut tracks required a Z80 offset fix.
<ValleyBell>
My files are named like "07 Carnival Night 1.8000.s3k" and "0D Launch Base 1.D04B.s3k"
<ValleyBell>
(detected offsets are 8002 for CNZ1 and D04D for for LBZ1 - the estimated offset is off by 2)
<ValleyBell>
For anyone curious what this is about: SMPS Z80 uses absolute ROM offsets for pointers in its sequences.
<ValleyBell>
And when ripping SMPS songs from the ROMs, you relocate them (from offset X to 0). So SMPSPlay has to guess what offset the song was originally located at.
<ValleyBell>
and if there is any sort of padding byte between the song header (which SMPSPlay uses for estimation) and the actual track data, the offset estimation goes wrong
<Sarayan>
VB: do you plan to keep working on the cm32p?
<andlabs>
I take it that has to do with the ROM I asked about the other day
<andlabs>
it's not the SOnic one
<andlabs>
but sure
<andlabs>
that might be the case
<ValleyBell>
Sarayan: Right now I don't have plans to work on it further for a few weeks.
<ValleyBell>
Yeah, I noticed you posted a driver that can't be from the S3 proto.
<ValleyBell>
(because it was Z80 Type 1 with FM/PSG drums and Sonic 3 uses Z80 Type 2 with DAC drums)
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<Sarayan>
VB: Oh, nothing immediate, just wanted to know if I had to add it to my pile of "synths to make go boing". If you're evetually going to do it, I have so many other things to do :-)
<ValleyBell>
okay
<ValleyBell>
There are 2 things about the cm32p that I have no clue how to fix though:
<ValleyBell>
1. the LED interrupt
<ValleyBell>
(I have no idea what triggers it.)
<Lord_Nightmare>
do you know what pin it comes from, and have logic analyzer traces?
<ValleyBell>
The interrupt is raised by an "LCD interface" that seems to be part of I/O array IC8.
<ValleyBell>
(according to the service notes)
<ValleyBell>
and the "LCD interface" is connected to the actual LCD screen
<Sarayan>
could it just be a periodic interrupt?
<ValleyBell>
I think it is somehow related to the LCD's ready line.
<ValleyBell>
anyway, the 2nd thing I have no clue about is an interrupt that the CPU waits for while searching for the next free voice
<ValleyBell>
that one is more important, as I can't just hack around it
<Sarayan>
how does it search?
<ValleyBell>
The code that ends up hanging is: clr r32 / orb r08, #80 / ldbze r34, 3a5a[r32] / cmpb 00, 35aa[r34] / jne 7d70
<ValleyBell>
and it waits for the interrupt to call 0x410d, which when modifies those memory locations.
<ValleyBell>
who knows ... maybe it becomes obvious when there is sample playback code
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<Sarayan>
maybe
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<fseidel>
ValleyBell: what ISA is that?
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<cr1901_modern>
fseidel: It's some successor to Intel 8051 IIRC...
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