ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
andlabs has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<Lord_Nightmare>
if someone made a miniatx case in a snow-white design pattern as used on the apple IIc/IIgs and planned for the early modular "jonathan" pc before it got killed off... I might buy it
<Lord_Nightmare>
the "jonathan" pc used the square plastic case that snow white and the early macs used for peripherals, but it was solid black
<Lord_Nightmare>
and it had 5 or 6 "slots" which used I think eurocard (later used on nubus) connectors on them to interface to a backplane
<Lord_Nightmare>
it was innovative as hell, but it would have meant apple having to share the market with 3rd party peripherals, and steve jobs hated 3rd party anything (hence why the mac had no proper expansion slot until the mac SE and mac II)
<andlabs>
ah yes a PC not made by IBM that doesn't use ISA cards, that's bound to be a success
<Lord_Nightmare>
nubus cards in the mac II series worked quite well
<Lord_Nightmare>
there were lots of peripherals made
<andlabs>
oh I thought you meant the "jonathan" pc was an IBM compatible
<Lord_Nightmare>
this was after steve jobs and the pepsi execs who replaced him were shown the door
<andlabs>
the mac had no expansion card interface before NuBus so of course NuBus was successful *on the Mac* =P
<Lord_Nightmare>
it had PDS on the SE
<andlabs>
oh
<Lord_Nightmare>
but the mac II was released at almost the same time
<Lord_Nightmare>
also the duodisk 3.5" drive in the upper left ALMOST WAS A THING
<Lord_Nightmare>
that actually does have prototypes or cases kicking around
<andlabs>
"sneezy"
<Lord_Nightmare>
and if you take apart a unidisk 3.5" the board has a socket for a second drive
<Lord_Nightmare>
but i think the apple IIgs and IIc had power issues running both drives
<Lord_Nightmare>
so apple nixed it
<andlabs>
what happens if you fill in that expansion AND connect a second disk using the standard daisy chain port
<andlabs>
I do have two 3.5" unidisks as well as two 5.25" IIe-style unidisks with my IIgs
<Lord_Nightmare>
i don't know if the firmware on the 65c02 on the 3.5" unidisk drive will run it correctly... but it MIGHT
<andlabs>
the IIgs, the IIc, and four disk drives all came together with manuals but only for other things not included, which is always useful
<Lord_Nightmare>
the unidisk 3.5" drives are kind of fragile though; theres a custom sony ASIC on the bottom of the unidisk 3.5" pcb
<andlabs>
IIe, HyperCard for Mac, and Mac 512k manuals
<Lord_Nightmare>
and if you plug the unidisk 3.5" drive into a mac you BLOW THAT UP
<andlabs>
someone was just selling all the apples tuff they could find at the facility that paparentlyw as still using both of the II computers in 2016
<Lord_Nightmare>
the later apple 3.5" drives are a sort of redesigned unidisk
<andlabs>
also — and yes I'm totally saying this to boast and flex — it's a ROM255 IIc with an Alps keyboard
<Lord_Nightmare>
I have a smashed EKB2 with alps keys
<Lord_Nightmare>
i need to steal them from it to fix another EKB2, and to fix another keyboard that uses alps keyswitches
<Lord_Nightmare>
those old 80s alps switches are stupid fucking expensive nowadays because everyone wants the damn things for keyboard builds
<Lord_Nightmare>
i wish they still made them
<andlabs>
yeah Alps keyboards are not special
<andlabs>
unless yo're talking about the Apple IIc
<andlabs>
apparently the custom propiretary keyboard that Apple used for most of them isn't as good
<Lord_Nightmare>
the mac extended keyboard II = EKB2
<Lord_Nightmare>
uses the "salmon" colored old alps switches
<andlabs>
I don't get keyboard fanatacism though I think I understand it more than I used to?
<Lord_Nightmare>
if i ever see someone take apart a symbolics or lisp keyboard and gut it I will do unspeakable things to them
<andlabs>
I'm sure people aren't that dumb
<Lord_Nightmare>
there's probably 50 lisp machines in various places, unrestorable BECAUSE THERES NO KEYBOARDS
<andlabs>
peopel ARE dumb to try to sell a computer based on its keyboard though
<andlabs>
but those salvagers are probably better off just gutting keyboards from random IBM clones
<andlabs>
...if you weren't me, constantly frustrated by the ebay Vintage Computers section
<Lord_Nightmare>
yes. although some old keyboards are just crap
<andlabs>
always finding new things that you're never quite sure are IBM clones anymore
<andlabs>
because no one ever documented those
<andlabs>
:|
<andlabs>
anyway the Alps mechanisms are widely cloned so
<Lord_Nightmare>
keytronic stuff was ubiquitous and is a maintenance disaster
<andlabs>
oh yeah
<Lord_Nightmare>
i have at least 4 keytronic keyboards i need to re-foam
<andlabs>
also keytronic has no records of its history
<andlabs>
good luck identifying a random one I guess
<Lord_Nightmare>
that texelec place apparently got in contact with old retired keytronic engineers and found out what the shiny discs on the keyboard are made of
<Lord_Nightmare>
so they can actually make functional replacements now
<andlabs>
actually wait
<andlabs>
was it keytronic?...
<andlabs>
that I'm referring to specifically
<Lord_Nightmare>
iirc its a mylar sheet coated with sputtered aluminum on both sides, then covered with plastic on both sides. a 5-layer sandwich
<Lord_Nightmare>
and also a pain to make, there's places which can custom make that stuff
<Lord_Nightmare>
the foam on keytronic keyboards disintegrates into gooey powder, which has some sort of acid in it, and that eats and destroys the original mylar discs
<Lord_Nightmare>
keytronic foam is open cell foam; some of the texelec replacements use closed cell foam which is much much too firm
<Lord_Nightmare>
you need to literally use the exact same foam they used to have it feel right
<Lord_Nightmare>
and it will disintegrate in exactly the same way too in 20 years
<Lord_Nightmare>
in theory you could use a very very loose spring in place of the foam
<andlabs>
can you even measure the exact foam used in any given application
<andlabs>
so you can find an exact replacement
<andlabs>
or even an equivalent
<Lord_Nightmare>
sure, count cells under a microscope
<Lord_Nightmare>
I actually have a keytronic "key feel" kit here with original foam and disc in it along with rubber grommets you'd put around the key stems to change the press response profile