#bitcoin-wizards on 2017-12-29 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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07:30 <fluffypony> eck: it's the major part needed for Lightning support, which will give us cross-chain swaps

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12:52 <Worc> Everybody btc is goind down

12:52 <contrapumpkin> fluffypony: using the scheme I linked to earlier or something else? is there a way to do monero-bitcoin swaps without ZKCP on the bitcoin side?

12:52 <contrapumpkin> Worc: wrong channel

12:53 <Worc> just kidding

12:53 <Worc> checking if channel is active

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13:04 <contrapumpkin> fluffypony: or if not that scheme, is there any other writing on it?

13:10 <fluffypony> contrapumpkin: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/lightning-network-now-supports-transactions-across-blockchains/

13:10 <fluffypony> https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/atomic-swaps-how-the-lightning-network-extends-to-altcoins-1484157052/

13:10 <fluffypony> there should be something linked there

13:10 <contrapumpkin> I know the general scheme across coins, but because monero has no script, it has to be different, right?

13:10 <contrapumpkin> I'll look

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13:11 <contrapumpkin> this was the scheme I was asking about: https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/895

13:11 <contrapumpkin> which uses multisig on the monero side and ZKCP on the bitcoin side

13:12 <fluffypony> contrapumpkin: best place to ask about that is #monero-research-lab, they may have strong feelings on that

13:12 <contrapumpkin> oh okay, didn't know about that one :) thanks

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18:41 <waxwing> i don't know details, but i'm wondering, if monero transaction signatures are on ed25519, and if that is essentially schnorr-like (is it? i'd have to look it up), then could you exploit the linearity as per scriptless scripts to do atomic swaps? (adaptor signatures)

18:41 <waxwing> oh that reminds me about the question of doing that across different curves ...

18:42 <contrapumpkin> interesting. Maybe folks in #monero-research-lab can help with that too?

18:42 <waxwing> even if that were possible, it would only imply ability to do it on own blockchain, or another with schnorr anyway

18:42 <contrapumpkin> could be very cool :)

18:43 <contrapumpkin> plus, schnorr is just so much fun to pronounce

18:43 <contrapumpkin> so the more opportunities the better

18:43 <waxwing> andytoshi, is the most likely to be able to comment on ^ (and, the monero guys of course)

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18:44 <waxwing> hmm yes brief scan of eddsa page on wikipedia suggests it's basically exactly schnorr in structure.

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18:45 <contrapumpkin> random stackexchange comment says they already use schnorrish stuff in some places: https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/2290/why-how-does-monero-generate-public-ed25519-keys-without-using-the-standard-publ#comment1390_2295

18:45 <contrapumpkin> QED

18:47 <waxwing> yeah good point of course the ring sig is not the same as the pure eddsa sig itself, so .. don't know.

18:54 <waxwing> contrapumpkin, in case you don't know about the scriptless script atomic swap idea, see https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizardry/mw-slides/2017-05-milan-meetup/slides.pdf and my fleshing out of atomic swap specifically here: https://joinmarket.me/blog/blog/flipping-the-scriptless-script-on-schnorr/

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