<kandinski>
do they also get privileged in routing, for performance reasons?
<kandinski>
so names can be dereferenced faster, lower latency between mutation and reading, etc?
<jbenet>
kandinski: not yet, but we might do that.
* kandinski
nods
<jbenet>
kandinski: in particular, one thing i look fwd to is deciding which routing sys to use based on record types
* jbenet
wonders if it would reduce a lot of confusion if we rename "routing" layer as "records" layer
<jbenet>
neither is completely right, or wrong, or precise. ah naming in cs is hard
<jbenet>
btw, it never ceases to amaze me how many problems in CS relate to humans general inability to quickly + reliably memorize sequences of ~100 numbers.
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<cow_2001>
daemon won't connect in dev0.4.0
<cow_2001>
the `ipfs swarm peers` thing is empty
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<kandinski>
jbenet: yes, "routing" is confusing
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<jbenet>
cow_2001 we have only one bootstrap node running dev0.4.0 -- i believe it's pluto -- ask diasdavid and lgierth ?
<cow_2001>
woah.
<cow_2001>
who / what are those?
<cow_2001>
oh, users
<cow_2001>
lgierth: dev0.4.0 user here. how do i bootstrap?
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<cow_2001>
i have another node that is already connected
<cow_2001>
there!
<cow_2001>
it's connected! :D
<jbenet>
haha
<jbenet>
yep, that works.
<jbenet>
ipfs is like mercury
<jbenet>
love watching how quickly it gets well connected
<lgierth>
heh
<lgierth>
yeah it's pluto
<lgierth>
you should be fine with the default bootstrap config
<cow_2001>
i've ipfs swarm connect [my other node's address] and it's working
<lgierth>
there just aren't very many dev0.4.0 nodes around
<kandinski>
jbenet: would "lookup" be a better name for "routing"
<cow_2001>
that's how i did it
<kandinski>
it's the semantics: "routing" tells you where to find the blob for a given hash/key
<jbenet>
kandinski: no, not really.
<kandinski>
what haven't I understood?
<jbenet>
kandinski: the protocols you engage in may include storing records for other peers. you "assist a lookup" but it's not really part of "lookup" for you.
<jbenet>
kandinski: in networks programming, that's a "routing" protocol: a protocol a network participates in to "help find each other", usually by propagating records for each other
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping force-pushed feat/no-flush-files from 609da78 to a49e020: http://git.io/vRqux
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feat/no-flush-files a49e020 Jeromy: add option to disable flushing files structure on writes...
<kandinski>
right, but as far as you give a hash to the DHT and the DHT returns a blob, it's a lookup. The routing is part of that lookup?
<kandinski>
so a lookup checks the local cache, then requests the blob from the DHT, and the DHT has to do some routing. Correct?
<jbenet>
who is the dht? the node is part of the dht, the node is doing the routing.
<jbenet>
calling it lookup is assymetric, it dissociates the lookup issuer from the service itself, and that's not what's happening.
<lgierth>
if what's being done is routing -- what's the route?
<jbenet>
a "lookup" is one part of a dht, routing table maintenance is another, getting well connected, etc.
<kandinski>
jbenet: aha, thanks
<deltab>
the DHT returns a set of addresses, right?
<jbenet>
lgierth: one route is the path through the dht hops to find the other peers. other routes are -- once you find the target peers -- how you connect to them.
<kandinski>
Kad returns the "closest known" list of nodes to a given hash, right_
<kandinski>
where "closests" is the Kad xor metric, IIRC
<kandinski>
deltab: is that what you mean by "the DHT returns a list of addresses"?
<deltab>
yes
<deltab>
thanks
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<jbenet>
when we say "routing" we tend to think of IP routing algorithms, propagating routing table updates. one of the interesting things about kademlia is that it drew that similarity to routing protocols, and put DHTs squarely into "networks" territory, instead of just in "databases"
<kandinski>
I didn't mean to correct, but rephrase to seek confirmation :)
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<jbenet>
i.e. they observed that a dht maintaining a list of peers to talk to, and help each other find others is exactly what layer 2 and 3 network protocols do. it's just a higher layer idea. ----- anyway, getting very esoteric now
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<jbenet>
kandinski: kademlia doesnt _always_ store addresses to peers, but the most successful uses of kademlia do that.
<jbenet>
the observation is about data size + locality. easier to use the shared resource to store little data pointing to peers interested in it
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<kzimmermann>
hi, I keep getting the "Error: merkledag: not found" message after running ipfs cat /ipfs/XXXXX/whatever command
<kzimmermann>
I've just downloaded ipfs from the site and I'm following the getting started instructions
<kzimmermann>
is this some dependency that I have to satisfy?
<kandinski>
kzimmermann: you need to be running the daemon
<kzimmermann>
kandinski: didn't I start it when I ran ipfs init?
<kandinski>
and try `ipfs cat <nakedhash>`, not the /ipfs/hash/foo path
<kzimmermann>
oh sorry, just read the help options
<kzimmermann>
`ipfs daemon` is the command, isn't it?
<kandinski>
yes
<kzimmermann>
actually let me try that one first
<kandinski>
`ipfs init` generates a keypair and config files
<kandinski>
then `ipfs daemon` runs the node
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<kzimmermann>
looks like that was it, kandinski
<kzimmermann>
I don't get the merkledag error anymore
<kzimmermann>
but perhaps someone should point this out in the documentation
<kandinski>
yeah, the error message could improve
<kzimmermann>
because right now it says "to get started, enter ipfs cat /ipfs/QmPXME1oRtoT627YKaDPDQ3PwA8tdP9rWuAAweLzqSwAWT/readme"
<kzimmermann>
right after ipfs init
<kzimmermann>
but thanks a lot, though! Solved my mystery
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<kandinski>
kzimmermann: where did you read those instructions?
<whyrusleeping>
mercurytw: it uses a platform agnostic '$HOME' expansion
<mercurytw>
thanks
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<haadcode>
morning
<ogzy>
computerfreak, sorry for late answer, i havent started to develop on ipfs but trying to understand it, planning to use its structure as a ddos mitigator :)
<computerfreak>
np ;)
* computerfreak
just woke up
<computerfreak>
anyone coding in c++ here?
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<cryptix>
gmrng
<whyrusleeping>
cryptix: mornin!
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<dignifiedquire>
good morning everyone :)
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<mancomunado>
So, where do I go to find interesting softwares?
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<wao_>
\o/
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: were any of your talks for 32c3 accepted?
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<ipfsbot>
[webui] greenkeeperio-bot opened pull request #112: Update babel to version 6.3.13
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] Dignifiedquire created greenkeeper-babel-core-6.3.13 (+1 new commit): http://git.io/vRW7C
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs-api/greenkeeper-babel-core-6.3.13 cce1f0c greenkeeperio-bot: chore(package): update babel-core to version 6.3.13...
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] Dignifiedquire deleted greenkeeper-babel-core-6.3.13 at cce1f0c: http://git.io/vRW5n
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] Dignifiedquire created greenkeeper-babel-plugin-transform-runtime-6.3.13 (+1 new commit): http://git.io/vRWdm
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs-api/greenkeeper-babel-plugin-transform-runtime-6.3.13 dc90b74 greenkeeperio-bot: chore(package): update babel-plugin-transform-runtime to version 6.3.13...
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] Dignifiedquire deleted greenkeeper-babel-plugin-transform-runtime-6.3.13 at dc90b74: http://git.io/vRWFx
<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] Dignifiedquire created greenkeeper-babel-preset-es2015-6.3.13 (+1 new commit): http://git.io/vRWbO
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs-api/greenkeeper-babel-preset-es2015-6.3.13 5a7020d greenkeeperio-bot: chore(package): update babel-preset-es2015 to version 6.3.13...
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] Dignifiedquire deleted greenkeeper-babel-preset-es2015-6.3.13 at 5a7020d: http://git.io/vRWNC
<daviddias>
dignifiedquire: unfortunately no, neither Juan's :(
<daviddias>
We can use the assembly to make it interesting though :)
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] Dignifiedquire created greenkeeper-babel-runtime-6.3.13 (+1 new commit): http://git.io/vRWNA
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs-api/greenkeeper-babel-runtime-6.3.13 e01dcf4 greenkeeperio-bot: chore(package): update babel-runtime to version 6.3.13...
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<computerfreak>
anyone interested on my Progress on Ipfs Qt-App ? ( browser style to access files/folders/webui ... ) daemon need to be started manually ofc ;) its just a little wrapper right now, but im implementing more and more .
<Stskeeps>
computerfreak: sure, i'd be interested
<M-davidar>
computerfreak (IRC): cool
<M-davidar>
computerfreak (IRC): if you can make it better than the ipfs electron app, I'll be very happy ;)
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<computerfreak>
well here are my first screenshots for u : QmXa1u1azEyjSXjn82HhAiKPKF3JYoruMfRYbbGHsRfqmx
<M-davidar>
can't remember why I'm not doing that yet...
<M-davidar>
oh, i remember
<M-davidar>
something to do with add perf :p
<M-davidar>
mathjax has lots of small files, or something like that
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<NightRa>
Hello everyone!
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<NightRa>
An issue I see with ipfs for casual users is needing their pc's be up all the time for sharing their files.
<NightRa>
I would like to see/work on the following: Allow a lightweight server ipfs node without storage serve locations of hashes on http
<NightRa>
For example, an IPFS node providing http links to a CDN, Casual users pointing to their Dropbox/Google drive for their shared files to open them up to the IPFS network
<NightRa>
Is such a thing possible?
<NightRa>
(Feasible? I may consider taking it as a part of my undergrad project)
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<NightRa>
At the end I'd like to arrive at a Dropbox on IPFS + pointing to real servers for when the personal computer is offline
<M-fil>
NightRa I've often wondered same thing: like on your local node you would add — but after it is securely transfered it would be pinned on your remote node
<M-fil>
or on of your remote nodeS.
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<NightRa>
M-fil: The use case I want is to store files on servers without them knowing about IPFS, and having a lightweight always-on node without storage which would point where to get the data
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<NightRa>
For example, I can't have the google drive servers run IPFS :)
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<computerfreak>
why do u need ipfs then? u can directly link your files to your server, you dont need ipfs for that :P
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<NightRa>
Locality, Deduplication & Caching for example
<computerfreak>
but if u want the server to get data from dropboy over another ipfs node, you can run dropbox and ipfs on that node and auto add everything which is in the dropbox folder ...
<NightRa>
Also Content Addressing
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<computerfreak>
if you wanna use that stuff on your server, i need to install ipfs , no other way to get him understanding ipfs <hash>
<NightRa>
I want to acheive the situation where a server without an IPFS node but which exposes files via http is participating in the IPFS swarm
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<computerfreak>
so you want another server (ipfs node) which can push and pull files to/from your other server (without ipfs) right?
<computerfreak>
So setup your Lightweight node to push every file to http , which it gets from User IPFS node
<NightRa>
Lightweight node: Declares where a user node can get some hashes
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<NightRa>
Instead of providing the data itself
<NightRa>
jbenet: Sounds great! I'll take a look into the discussion
<computerfreak>
it needs to have the data somehow
<computerfreak>
or cash it at least
<NightRa>
computerfreak: It knows where the data is, the user doesn't :)
<computerfreak>
because u need to make the hash and you dont have ipfs on the http server so ..
<NightRa>
computerfreak: It can compute the hashes once and store only them
<computerfreak>
well you can delete the file after that ..
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<computerfreak>
but you need to have it once
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<NightRa>
Can compute most hashes in a streaming fashion. Also will need a mechanism to detect changes as well as you say (if unable to reach - deleted, or verification failure - changed, I guess these should be reported back to the lightweight node)
<computerfreak>
so you store a script which says: if someone searches for <hash> , download the file from http-server (path stored) and distribute it over ipfs . So User node is able to download with <hash>
<NightRa>
That's one option, the easy path indeed.
<NightRa>
But then it eats the bandwidth of the lightweight server and it isn't lightweight anymore.
<computerfreak>
well you can pass the direct path over , if the <hash> is requested
<computerfreak>
so user nodes loads directly over http from http-server
<computerfreak>
and lightweight node just stores <hash><path> links
<computerfreak>
EY You could use a BLOCKCHAIN for that :D
<computerfreak>
just send transaction: I stored this: Filename.txt on the server with path: ip-address/folder/Filename.txt
<computerfreak>
and add the ipfs <hash> ofc
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<NightRa>
Yeah, but then it's outside of ipfs itself, not content addressed..
<NightRa>
jbenet: So something of this sort is planned?
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<computerfreak1>
can someone lead me with the http-api?
<computerfreak1>
so this means ''get'' the object ? what does it mean
<computerfreak1>
does my ipfs daemon cashing it now? or can i just get files i added before?
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<daviddias>
computerfreak1 doesn't 127.0.0.1:5001/ipfs/QmaaqrHyAQm7gALkRW8DcfGX3u8q9rWKnxEMmf7m9z515w work for you?
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<computerfreak1>
no
<computerfreak1>
430 err
<computerfreak1>
403*
<daviddias>
ah
<daviddias>
try
<daviddias>
localhost:8080 or localhost:5001
<daviddias>
localhost is white listed, 127.0.0.1 is not
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<computerfreak1>
yeah 8080 working, but my question is: if i enter a <hash> here, is it searching only on my computer for that file, or also asking other peers?
<computerfreak1>
so for example you add that file on your computer, can i view it with localhost:8080/ipfs/<yourhash> ?
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<NightRa>
computerfreak1: Yes
<daviddias>
also asking to other peers
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<computerfreak1>
YES
<computerfreak1>
ok im back to Qt-creator, see u later
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<cow_2001>
what's unixfs?
<cow_2001>
ipfs files --help says it's about unixfs
<cow_2001>
oh, you have a repo called unixfs
<cow_2001>
i wish i were any good with golang
<cow_2001>
or in programming in general
<cow_2001>
i know a tiny bit of golang, but it's more accurate to say that i know a tiny bit of c-like langs
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<cow_2001>
is there anything i could do?
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<computerfreak1>
i also have no idea on go xD
<computerfreak1>
just didnt managed to install it with all correct paths set ..
<kzimmermann>
suppose that I ipfs add-ed a directory containing a few files. Can I add more files to that directory without the base directory hash changing?
<ion>
With ipfs, no. With ipns, “yes”.
<kzimmermann>
ipNs?
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<ion>
IPNS gives you mutable pointers to IPFS objects. You can modify a directory and make your IPNS name point to the new directory object.
<ion>
ipfs name publish
<computerfreak1>
but its limited to 1 folder = your id
<kzimmermann>
ooh, sounds neat
<ion>
computerfreak1: at the moment
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<kzimmermann>
so if you only have ipfs, once you add a file or folder any other change to that file or folder becomes a new object with a new unique hash?
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<computerfreak1>
yes
<computerfreak1>
a hash represents the data if u make any change, also hash changes
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<kzimmermann>
ok, good to know! thank you computerfreak1 and ion
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<computerfreak1>
np
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<computerfreak1>
guys , howto download a folder from /ipns/<myid> ? (local gateway)
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<lgierth>
M-davidar: ping! mind if i move your stuff on pollux to castor? we need space there for npm
<Bat`O>
can someone tell me what's the purpose of stream-channels in API commands ?
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<tperson>
Bat`O: Got an example?
<ipfsbot>
[ipfs] digital-dreamer opened pull request #134: Add link to the IPFS crowdsourced translation project (master...add-transifex) http://git.io/vRBGJ
<tperson>
If I had to guess you might be referring to Add which uses a channel to stream each file, and progress back.
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<Bat`O>
tperson: i think every http request that the go client does to the daemon has this argument
<Bat`O>
i'll see if it works without
<Bat`O>
thanks
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<tperson>
Ah, I see what you are talking about
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<tperson>
I honestly can't find anyplace that it does anything.
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<jbenet>
It may have been remove
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<lgierth>
M-davidar: i'm moving /home/davidar/sirius from pollux to castor
<ion>
lgierth: i'm moving /home/lgierth from pollux to /dev/null
<lgierth>
ion: wrong username ;)
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<computerfreak1>
stupid question: howto download a file from hash? (outside of the ipfs)
<ianopolous>
jbenet: do you have a defined "multikeypair" yet for IPNS?
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<ion>
.tell whyrusleeping Watching you coffee talk. I'm curious, how much do coffee beans cost there? Here “cheap”, generic ones are about 10 €/kg (pre-ground coffee of the same brand can be about half that) and specialty store prices vary from about 20 to 30 €/kg.
<multivac>
ion: I'll pass that on when whyrusleeping is around.
<M-davidar>
lgierth (IRC): OK
* M-davidar
tries to remember what's in that directory :/
<whyrusleeping>
ion: the ones i used in the video were $12/lb, and they were mid range. I generally pay around $24/12oz
<multivac>
whyrusleeping: 2015-12-04 - 23:54:11 <ion> tell whyrusleeping Watching you coffee talk. I'm curious, how much do coffee beans cost there? Here “cheap”, generic ones are about 10 €/kg (pre-ground coffee of the same brand can be about half that) and specialty store prices vary from about 20 to 30 €/kg.
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<lgierth>
M-davidar: pdf/arxiv_pdf_*.tar
<whyrusleeping>
ion: so 30euro per kg would be about 16 USD/ pound
<M-davidar>
lgierth (IRC): ah, that's right
<whyrusleeping>
so the coffee i normally get would be about 64 euros per kg
<M-davidar>
whyrusleeping (IRC): what talk?
<lgierth>
M-davidar: or would it be faster just download them again?
<ion>
whyrusleeping: Ok
<M-davidar>
lgierth (IRC): I dunno, how long is it taking?
<lgierth>
between 5 and 10 MBps
<M-davidar>
(Also, we have to pay to download them from s3, which is why I haven't deleted them)
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<lgierth>
pollux' bandwidth capacity might just be full, so it might get faster once npm is finished downloading
<lgierth>
ok
<whyrusleeping>
M-davidar: we did a 'coffee and bitswap' talk on wednesday