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<Looking>
#wordpress
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<gmcquillan>
Simple question that I might've missed in the FAQ (although I did read through every page) but are the nodes and subnodes you add to ipfs mutable by other peers?
<gmcquillan>
I'm not concerned about visibility, just modification.
<gmcquillan>
Use-case: a public git repo.
<gmcquillan>
It looks like there's some PKI builtin.
<gmcquillan>
If I had to guess, I'd say yes, but even the whitepaper doesn't say explicitly that modications are resticted to the keypair that created them.
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<noffle>
gmcquillan: by 'nodes' do you mean the ipfs objects you add to your repo?
<noffle>
if so: no. they're 100% immutable, by them, you, or anyone else. you'd need to create brand new objects to see the effect of any 'mutation'
<gmcquillan>
Indeed.
<noffle>
since their hash defines their content, any modification would result in an invalid object
<gmcquillan>
Sure, but the "name" Objects that represent paths are kinda mutable, though, right?
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<noffle>
oh, you're thinking of modifying e.g. a file in a directory structure?
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<gmcquillan>
Yeah.
<gmcquillan>
Section 3.7 in the whitepaper.
<noffle>
modification would result in a new structure being created; the hash would change and it'd propagate up to the root
<noffle>
but children and siblings would be unaffected
<noffle>
i.e. not duplicated if they didn't change
<gmcquillan>
The old structure would continue to exist, so nothing would be destructive?
<noffle>
right!
<gmcquillan>
Kk.
<gmcquillan>
That's it! Sorry if the question was poortly worded.
<noffle>
no problem at all. there's a lot of terminology and it's tough getting everyone in the same place
<gmcquillan>
It's a great project. I'm excited to experiment with it.
<gmcquillan>
Thanks noffle
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<noffle>
yay! you're very welcome
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<user24>
Hello :) Is anyone else investigating search in decentralised networks such as IPFS and Ethereum?
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<conway>
user24: sure am. But im doing it via a multitude of ways, mainly scraping from as much as I can find.
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<user24>
conway: Same. I'm looking into distributed services specifically, with such networks acting as intermediaries, instead of trusted third parties providing registration, discovery and payment. One can reference IPNS names pointing to service descriptor files in smart contracts (ideally, both the Ethereum and IPFS nodes would use the same identity). Assuming the blockchain will be scalable,...
<user24>
...there would be a lot of metadata to sift through. Of course, the Google of tomorrow could provide this as a "metaservice", but maybe there are other options.
<user24>
Can you recommend any documents?
<conway>
Unfortunately, I am dismissive of Ethereum in general. Its too controlled from a SPOF, and the speeds of the "contracts" are abysmally slow.
<conway>
I have done a great deal of work in Tor however, and in making my own cloud architecture. I'm looking for the last piece, like a IPFS for computing. Ethereum isn't it.
<user24>
I don't care which one will succeed (if any), so I'm agnostic therein. Regarding computing, there exists golemproject.net (which builds upon Ethereum however)
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<conway>
And I'm worried about Tor HS as well. It's nowhere near as robust as the folks here are making IPFS. However, I've been playing around with an Erlang-based system networked via HS
<whyrusleeping>
user24: conway you can watch the dht for provider entries
<whyrusleeping>
and use that as a seed to your indexing
<conway>
Heh, I know :) It's the same trick I use to see hidden service announcements and requests.
<conway>
->on Tor.
<user24>
I'll have a look at it
<user24>
If service registration turns out to be doable offchain, great :) But payment is a component that has to be handled by a system with consensus.
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<richardlitt>
Hey everyone
<richardlitt>
Ready for a fun and exciting IRC sync?
<whyrusleeping>
no
<whyrusleeping>
go home
<richardlitt>
whyrusleeping --
<richardlitt>
-- whyrusleeping
<richardlitt>
dang
<whyrusleeping>
richardlitt--
<whyrusleeping>
mubot is dead
<richardlitt>
long live mubot
<richardlitt>
Ok! Sync time!
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<richardlitt>
============================
<richardlitt>
Coming up first, we have nginnever / voxelot / nathan
<richardlitt>
Remember, copy over the main messages, not the list of things done
<voxelot>
The past few weeks I have spent most of my time working on the files api and data. Started building the core and cli for js-ipfs files commands. Worked with a few other modules as well. Merged some PR's on is-ipfs to add buffer support and tests. The js-ipfs-merkle-dag module now does more than just check the existence of a multihash, it uses is-ipfs to assert it is a correct multihash and throws appropriate errors if not.
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<voxelot>
EOF
<voxelot>
=========================
<whyrusleeping>
voxelot: good job
<whyrusleeping>
youre great
<richardlitt>
Sweet, thanks!
<whyrusleeping>
keep doin you
<voxelot>
wooo
<richardlitt>
<3 <3 <3
<richardlitt>
222
<richardlitt>
anything you're blocked on?
<daviddias>
voxelot: awesome stuff, as always :)
<voxelot>
nope, just more work to be done
<richardlitt>
Cool.
<richardlitt>
daviddias: next?
<daviddias>
sounds good
* daviddias
incoming
<daviddias>
David Dias Summary: The last part of this sprint was most filled by meetings, conversations and planning, which resulted in consolidated ROADMAPs for js-ipfs, libp2p, registry-mirror and js-ipld. You can check the most recent entry of Captain.log at ipfs/js-ipfs#30 (comment) , there is a lot of space for contributions :). Other than that, a lot of work went
<daviddias>
into the zlib problem that @dignifiedquire has now solved, plus CR+M a lot of contributions from several js-ipfs contributors. One last thing, the Research & Development Meetup is now a thing in Lisbon and if you are around, I totally recommend participating, check for the next event here: http://www.meetup.com/ipfs-lisbon-meetup/events/229807984.
<richardlitt>
EOF?
<daviddias>
EOF
<richardlitt>
Sweet!
<richardlitt>
Sounds good. Good work with Lisbon.
<daviddias>
thank you :)
<richardlitt>
So... cool.
<richardlitt>
Haad won't be here today
<richardlitt>
Not sure where Noffle is
<richardlitt>
My turn?
<richardlitt>
===
<richardlitt>
Nothing to report. This week was taken up with organizing and meetings in New York. I ran the event last Wednesday, where over 100 people came to AWS to hear about IPFS and other blockchain orgs. That was good.
<richardlitt>
===
<richardlitt>
QUestions?
<daviddias>
great job with herding the cats during the whole week!
<daviddias>
plus the meetup was pretty cool, yah! :D
<whyrusleeping>
anyone who gets in my way will not have a good day
<computerfreak>
im with u ;)
<richardlitt>
woot.
<richardlitt>
Alright! Cool.
<richardlitt>
Anyone want to go today?
<computerfreak>
u have enough coffee ?
<richardlitt>
Or is this the shortest sync ever.
<richardlitt>
computerfreak: going to buy more soon
<richardlitt>
Alright!
<richardlitt>
We'll be here for questions!
<richardlitt>
Otherwise, end of sync
<richardlitt>
===========
<computerfreak>
i am looking forward making some tutorials this week i think :)
<richardlitt>
FASTEST SYNC EVER.
<richardlitt>
computerfreak: nice!
<computerfreak>
prefer slideshows, articles or videos?
<richardlitt>
anything. :)_
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<computerfreak>
aight than i make slides to put them together to an video presentation later i guess .
<GangstaCat>
I ipfs added a litle file (around 10MB) yesterday. I accessed it through the http gateway, at first that was long but now this is very fast. I didn't shared the file. So I would like to know why 24 hours after, the file still exists because for sure nobody pined it?
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<computerfreak>
gateway cached it i think
<GangstaCat>
alright, without the gateway the file would had been deleted in how many time you think?
<computerfreak>
instantly once u disconnect the seed
<GangstaCat>
yes the seed is disconnected since some hours now
<GangstaCat>
say I create a website and ipfs add it but nobody know it yet. I must run the daemon for the visitor to see the site?
<computerfreak>
now its still cached on the gateway , try adding a new file, copy hash and disconenct seed, than try to reach the file over the gateway or another computer with ipfs ;)
<computerfreak>
GangstaCat: yes you need to server the files until someone else also serving it
<GangstaCat>
alright, by pining so?
<computerfreak>
just by adding
<computerfreak>
and running daemon
<GangstaCat>
not clear for me
<richardlitt>
jbenet is around today! So, sync will have one more update in a bit.
<computerfreak>
richardlitt: nice
<whyrusleeping>
GangstaCat: the gateways cache content for an unspecific amount of time
<whyrusleeping>
generally its around a week, but you can't rely on them keeping stuff for you
<GangstaCat>
alright
<whyrusleeping>
its basically until we run a gx
<whyrusleeping>
gc*
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<micxjo>
am I wrong to be concerned that the official installation instructions link to the binary distributions over HTTP instead of HTTPS?
<whyrusleeping>
micxjo: we're working on getting a wildcard cert
<ion>
Wouldn't letsencrypt give you certificates for all your hostnames?
<whyrusleeping>
they will, but its a pretty big hassle for each cert
<whyrusleeping>
so we're getting a wildcard through startssl
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<lgierth>
it's only a hassle for the verification
<lgierth>
whyrusleeping: i'm not sure what resolved the issue with venus hanging
<whyrusleeping>
lgierth: yeah, it just finished at some point
<lgierth>
either: that particular request is just slow (always takes between 20 and 30s here)
<lgierth>
or: the cjdns restart did it
<lgierth>
i'm gonna have the gateways not dial on fc00::/8 today
<lgierth>
it can be quite an issue if a bitswap stream just hangs right?
<whyrusleeping>
i think so
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<vitzli>
hello, I'm sorry, I wasn't following ipfs development recently, but something is wrong with 'ipfs add -n -r dir' command - it does not returns any directory hashes, is this a bug or intended behavior? (ipfs add -r returns dirs)
<micxjo>
perhaps a warning could be added to the install instructions in the mean time? if I go to http://ipfs.io/docs/install I get automatically redirected to HTTPS. Without looking closely it'd be easy to assume that the direct download links will also be over HTTPS
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<micxjo>
could I also suggest that it's a little confusing that there are both "Install IPFS" and "Install IPFS Alpha" links on https://ipfs.io which point to the same instructions, and those instructions don't specify whether IPFS is currently considered alpha, beta, production, or whatever?
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<micxjo>
not to sound too pushy as I'm only an observer of this project and I like what you're doing, but if you announce a new release these are issues that could raise red flags for potential users
<whyrusleeping>
in preparation for switching to tls1.3 (or other) as the crypto channel used by ipfs, we're adding a layer to select which crypto channel is used by ipfs on the network
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<dignifiedquire>
noffle: not at all, was just trying to write down what I remembered
<whyrusleeping>
this *will* be part of the 0.4.0 release
<whyrusleeping>
and this does mean that current 0.4.0-dev nodes will *not* be able to communicate with the official 0.4.0 release
<whyrusleeping>
we realized that if we want to claim that we will never break the network compatibility layer again, then this is required
<computerfreak>
nice thing, so we can use any crypto now? like Bitcoin or Ethereum ... ?
<whyrusleeping>
computerfreak: you could implement your own crypto transport layer and plug it into ipfs
<whyrusleeping>
and then ipfs
<whyrusleeping>
would be able to use that to communicate with other nodes that also have that layer
<whyrusleeping>
and you can have multiple different implementations on a given node
<computerfreak>
cool , so i can make ''my own ipfs network'' ?
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<computerfreak>
muted?
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] noffle opened pull request #2531: Outputs added directories as they are traversed. (master...output-dirs-on-add) https://git.io/vVr53
<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs] diasdavid closed pull request #109: Make ipfs config commands work with daemon running (master...fix/config) https://git.io/vVucD
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<richardlitt>
Thanks all!
<richardlitt>
computerfreak: fixed. My bad. :P
<noffle>
super cool sync ja
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<conway>
This is a security/policy question. Are there blocklists on he ipfs.io gateway? Can I talk with someone who is in charge of it?
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<ruby32>
is there an IPFS FAQ?
<ruby32>
or can i bother you guys with this newbie question... how do peers find each other?
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<demize>
ruby32: DHT. And initially through bootstrap nodes.
<ruby32>
bootstrap nodes are hard-coded in the source i guess?
<ruby32>
or, coded somehow in the source
<conway>
ruby32: yep. here's a few servers that everyone has in their configs. When you start the daemon, you connect to them. You also ask the local network of any IPFS daemons as well to auto-connect to. DHTs are traversed and you grow a connection.
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping created 3.11 from master (+0 new commits): https://git.io/vVovK
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<whyrusleeping>
what?
<whyrusleeping>
go home ipfsbot, youre drunk
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<lgierth>
we have a 0.3.x maintenance branch
<nicolagreco>
conway: did someone answered your question?
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<sametsisartenep>
Hi
<sametsisartenep>
What's the hash at the left of the file, when you do an 'ipfs ls'?
<sametsisartenep>
I tried to do 'ipfs cat <file> | multihash', but it's not the same
<lgierth>
yeah ipfs chunks the file and applies a very thin datastructure to the chunks
<lgierth>
for deduplication
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<sametsisartenep>
So the hash is from one of those chunks?
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<deltab>
it's a hash over the hashes of all the chunks
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<deltab>
(roughly speaking)
<lgierth>
it's a hash of the top-level object, which links to the direct child chunks, which link to [and so on]
<sametsisartenep>
Ok, thanks. I'm just starting to learn Merkle structures
<lgierth>
have a look at `ipfs object get <hash>`
<sametsisartenep>
I think I get it
<lgierth>
you can use jq to visualize it nicer
<sametsisartenep>
Thanks, I'll take a look
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping created deps/libp2p/msscrypto (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vVogw
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/deps/libp2p/msscrypto be8a583 Jeromy: switch to new libp2p with mss crypto...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping opened pull request #2532: switch to new libp2p with mss crypto (master...deps/libp2p/msscrypto) https://git.io/vVogi
<whyrusleeping>
feross: whats the point of having a desktop client for webtorrent?
<deltab>
it bridges the networks
<whyrusleeping>
ooooh, gotcha
<noffle>
yeah it's just a desktop client but also helps webtorrent net health
<deltab>
"I'm really excited about the way WebTorrent Desktop bridges the WebTorrent and BitTorrent networks. If enough people end up running it, BitTorrent in the browser will really happen. Projects like the Internet Archive can make huge files available for immediate streaming on their website, without paying for bandwidth. It's going to be interesting times."
<deltab>
"Tons of cool new uses of the web are just at the edge of becoming possible."
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<xelra>
Yeah guys, I was wondering what's the statu of ipfs-cluster these days? Or have there any other, similar things emerged?
<lgierth>
xelra: we're gonna get that going soon
<lgierth>
it was important to get 0.4.0 ready first
<xelra>
Wow that's great news. I've been waiting to put my private files on ipfs since I first heard of it.
<xelra>
Because I have so many devices, I think it's a much better thing compared to sync. Since sync pretty much behaves like a RAID1 and I'm hoping with ipfs-cluster I can rather use it like a distributed fs, with some striping involved.
<noffle>
xelra: aye, striping is planned for ipfs-cluster (when we get there)
<xelra>
noffle: I saw pincoop. I thought about maybe combining it with encryption, to get me started even before ipfs cluster, but then I didn't really find the right encryption software for it. Since EncFS has this security hole now.
<xelra>
And still, even encrypted I don't want my private files world-readable.
<noffle>
xelra: if you're part of a co-op then your files will be readable/discoverable to the co-op. but if you're running your own set of machines, nobody will know you have any files unless they know the hash to ask for
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<xelra>
Yeah, I know what you mean. I'd rather have them get a refused connection though, even if they tried.
<noffle>
ah, I see. only share pinned files within the group
<noffle>
that seems like a reasonable thing to support
<noffle>
so many possible policy options
<noffle>
humans are very fickle
<Boomerang>
Couldn't you also create your own little IPFS by changing the bootstrap nodes? So you could have your own IPFS for your devices that wouldn't be accessible from the outside world
<xelra>
I think pincoop can be the "load balancer" part of ipfs-cluster though. Speaking in traditional DFS terms.
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<xelra>
Boomerang: Yeah. And shut it down with a firewall. Whitelist, etc. I guess that's possible. I just think custom -> security holes.
<xelra>
I don't remember anything I've ever done custom on my own didn't have a security hole. :)
<noffle>
Boomerang: you can bootstrap to specific nodes, but if you tell your node you want X, it'll look for providers on the DHT and connect to them (is my understanding)
<Boomerang>
use a proper well known encryption for the data :)
<xelra>
Boomerang: Any suggestions? The only applyable one I know was EncFS.
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<Boomerang>
No sorry I don't have any better encryption solution... I'd be interested to know if you find something though! :)
<xelra>
There's cryptomator now.
<xelra>
But it's so slow.
<Boomerang>
That looks pretty good. How slow is it in comparison to the network (IPFS transfers)?
<xelra>
Don't even start to compare.
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<xelra>
I was already dissatisfied when I tested it on my local SSD. :)