lgierth changed the topic of #ipfs to: go-ipfs v0.4.8 is out! https://dist.ipfs.io/#go-ipfs | Week 13: Web browsers, IPFS Cluster, Orbit -- https://waffle.io/ipfs/roadmaps | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | FAQ: https://git.io/voEh8 | Logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/ipfs/ | Code of Conduct: https://git.io/vVBS0
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<kumavis> > > The WMF spends roughly US$2 million a year on Internet hosting
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<Kubuxu> kumavis: for their scale, it isn't much
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<TUSF> Err, on the libp2p site, the "Golang" implementation links to the JS implementation.
<TUSF> whyrusleeping ^
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<jclay> left you a comment lgierth
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<charlienyc[m]> From a Turkish connection, it does not work
<charlienyc[m]> But it does over a VPN
<charlienyc[m]> I get a failure to resolve issue
<lgierth> yeah no idea how up-to-date that is
<charlienyc[m]> Ok. It was from a couple days ago. The VPN connection probably has it cached
<charlienyc[m]> Translating the blog post now
<Magik6k> That link doesn't even have search, heh
<Magik6k> Kubuxu, ^
<Kubuxu> charlienyc[m]: use the content of the blog
<Kubuxu> it includes links too
<charlienyc[m]> Kk
<charlienyc[m]> Can you also publish a simplified version that mobile users can understand?
<charlienyc[m]> Like, just an announcement
<charlienyc[m]> My Turkish translator will have trouble enough understanding 90% of the blog post as written
<charlienyc[m]> Will do my best
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<lgierth> too much jargon?
<charlienyc[m]> lgierth: definitely
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<charlienyc[m]> Like "content addressing" won't mean anything.
<charlienyc[m]> Sneakernet
<charlienyc[m]> And I'm not sure which opens gateway is supposed to be working
<charlienyc[m]> Ipns*
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<lgierth> content addressing a pretty essential term to ipfs
<lgierth> *is a
<r0kk3rz> instead of 'content address' try 'unique fingerprint' perhaps
<charlienyc[m]> So, is this project for developers or for the millions of people who have no idea what you're talking about?
<r0kk3rz> do the millions understand how HTTP works?
<charlienyc[m]> No
<lgierth> this is not yet for the millions
<lgierth> we don't have the neccessary UX yet
<charlienyc[m]> They think Facebook is the internet
<lgierth> yes
<r0kk3rz> surely google is the intenret
<TUSF> I dunno, I heard about this bing thing
<charlienyc[m]> Then we should maybe wait on the announcement (in Turkish). Anyone running an ipfs node would 1. Be easily viewable on the single Turkish internet provider and 2. Would be subject to all kinds of Terri let things because of 1.
<charlienyc[m]> And I can count on one hand the number developers willing to take that risk
<charlienyc[m]> Terrible things*
<lgierth> well if we need anonymity it's not gonna happen in 2017
<charlienyc[m]> We need Wikipedia. The ipfs nodes will have to happen apart from people's home internet connections
<lgierth> so, mh, are you saying the blog post needs better copy, or the tech isn't ready for a country like turkey?
<charlienyc[m]> We can host some in Rojava, for example, which is certainly more local than Wikipedia's servers
<charlienyc[m]> lgierth: both?
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<charlienyc[m]> I don't see anyone using this tech for anything but browsing wikipedia
<r0kk3rz> ipfs is a good fit if you're worried about hosts getting shut down by government
<lgierth> flyingzumwalt: ^
<r0kk3rz> but maybe not alone, wrap it in TOR or CJDNS or something
<lgierth> i need to go clean the bathroom
<charlienyc[m]> r0kk3rz: I understand that, but if any nodes are going up it's because I put them up
<lgierth> charlienyc[m]: so, what exactly is the legal situation? is it a criminal act to distribute tr.wikipedia.org?
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<emunand[m]> lgierth, charlie.(not currently in) nyc: people are obviously not happy with it
<charlienyc[m]> It's a criminal act to do anything erdogan doesn't like
<charlienyc[m]> That guy was lucky, but there are plenty of examples where people got multi-year prison sentences for similar things
<lgierth> ok what do you suggest
<charlienyc[m]> And, since Erdogan has called Wikipedia a "terrorist website," distributing it likely more severe than a meme.
<lgierth> i know that erdogan is a dick
<emunand[m]> ipfs is as anonymous as bittorrent, the more nodes distributing the info, the harder it is to block
<charlienyc[m]> Focus on it make it usable. I will make it available
<lgierth> emunand[m]: thaaat is not what anonymity is about ;)
<charlienyc[m]> I can spin up a raspberry pi image and get it to all the leftist groups capable of defending themselves in Turkey
<lgierth> charlienyc[m]: we won't have time to substantially improve the UX for the rest of the quarter
<charlienyc[m]> I think the search function is fine
<charlienyc[m]> Just don't expect anyone to run a node
<lgierth> :)
<lgierth> that's fine for the time being
<lgierth> one step at a time
<emunand[m]> i have a node nearby turkey, i definentiy will pin both wikipedias
<Mateon1> emunand[m]: That's reliability, not anonymity.
<lgierth> resilience, actually
<Mateon1> Hm, I guess so, I don't actually know the functional difference between these two
<charlienyc[m]> I can also host some from neighboring countries that will not get censored
<lgierth> i think there's no formal specification of the terms :)
<charlienyc[m]> I'm like 20km from Turkey now, and we use a connection piped in from there.
<lgierth> resilience to me is more about attack defenses, while reliability is more about general failure modes
<Mateon1> "A [power grid] that comes back quickly is resilient, [but] brownouts might be acceptable under a resilient framework"
<lgierth> hah thanks Mateon1
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<TUSF> I'm a bit perturbed by the complete lack of of documentation for Go's Core API, in comparison to Javascripts, even though Go is supposed to be the reference implementation.
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<charlienyc[m]> lgierth: re: blog. Do I translate the whole thing for hypothetical developers? Or can I just publish a simplified announcement in Turkish?
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<charlienyc[m]> I will work on a pi image with Tor/ipfs/the wiki clone so that these can be deployed easily.
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<charlienyc[m]> If someone can send torrente a .Zip of the latest snapshot. TCP will not work.
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<charlienyc[m]> If someone can torrent me a Zip of the latest snapshot. TCP will not work.
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<charlienyc[m]> lgierth: is cjdns really stable enough for this? If I use for, I'll be killing all the advantages of hosting it locally.
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<charlienyc[m]> Tor* sorry. I'm on mobile. Not trying to sign into riot on any computer here.
<lgierth> no cjdns isn't stable enough
<lgierth> charlienyc[m]: i don't think anyone has a zip
<lgierth> it's kind of a stretch to try and dump these snapshots into a regular directory
<lgierth> mhh maybe a tar export from the api works
<charlienyc[m]> Whatever works. I know an uncompressed zip will not
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<lgierth> i think i can make you a tar.gz
<charlienyc[m]> Uncompressed directory *
<charlienyc[m]> Thanks.
<lgierth> but still, what are you gonna do with it
<lgierth> surely not unpack it ;)
<charlienyc[m]> Throw up a bunch of ipfs pis
<charlienyc[m]> Why not?
<lgierth> ok that won't work nicely for what you want
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<lgierth> or, mh
<charlienyc[m]> Can you make it several .Tar files?
<lgierth> ah, tar can import too
<lgierth> good
<charlienyc[m]> Import to ipfs, you mean?
<lgierth> so i'll get you a .tar.gz, you can gunzip it, then tar/import on the api
<lgierth> yeah
<lgierth> although i'm not sure how big a tar the tar/import command can handle
<charlienyc[m]> Sweet
<lgierth> well, we'll see
<charlienyc[m]> Should I use cjdns?
<lgierth> oh mmh no that won't work
<lgierth> what for
<charlienyc[m]> I have tomesh's image on hand
<charlienyc[m]> Just split it into several tar files
<charlienyc[m]> Save that headache
<lgierth> no i mean the tar export won't work
<charlienyc[m]> Oh.
<lgierth> can't you use simple ifps replication for that?
<charlienyc[m]> You tell me
<charlienyc[m]> I've used ipfs like twice
<charlienyc[m]> How should I disguise the IPS?
<charlienyc[m]> I have a VPN that tunnels to a cloudflare setup in Istanbul...
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<lgierth> ah, you don't want to exit into the internet in turkey?
<charlienyc[m]> I can. But only at an ix
<charlienyc[m]> Everyone upstream of me on this illegal ubiquiti wisp would be subject to arrest, torture, or worse
<lgierth> i'm confused
<lgierth> what do you want, and what does cjdns have to with it
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<charlienyc[m]> I guess cjdns doesn't have anything to do with it, except that standard vpns get blocked after ~15 minutes of deep packet inspection
<charlienyc[m]> Could always do a ssh tunnel to my box in Istanbul?
<charlienyc[m]> I want to host the content here safely, but Tor would cause some crazy, circuitous route to another country
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<charlienyc[m]> And cjdns, in theory, would be able to leverage several back bone connections in Istanbul in case one gets taken offline
<charlienyc[m]> Without me having to reconfigure them remotely, which would be impossible if my ixp tunnel got blocked
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<charlienyc[m]> lgierth: ^
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<lgierth> yeah that makes sense then
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<Kubuxu> I think IPFS might be so alien to them (if used just as pure p2p) that unless they block whole protocol (for which we also could have workaround) there is nothing they could do.
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<Kubuxu> IPFS is like torrent but with http gateway (that everyone can run on their machine).
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<Kubuxu> in simplification.
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<lgierth> in the end they'll have to block tls on port 443
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<charlienyc[m]> If there are going to be ipfs nodes here, it will be because I set them up.
<charlienyc[m]> Kubuxu: except that nobody will run it because of 1)the risk of being murdered by the Turkish state 2)it's developer ware and
<charlienyc[m]> But I'm not talking about blocking ipfs. I'm talking about blocking the gateway that makes it usable. And I'm talking about a safe way to deploy nodes given 1&2
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<charlienyc[m]> What makes ipfs usable here is not the P2P, but the searchable gateway on http
<charlienyc[m]> And, because, the internet is so terrible, keeping that gateway as close to the Istanbul ix as possible is crucial
<charlienyc[m]> Since all traffic in turkey/northern Syria gets routed there before anywhere else to institute the deep packet inspection
<r0kk3rz> charlienyc[m]: even intra-turkey traffic?
<charlienyc[m]> Probably
<charlienyc[m]> My traceroutes are just * after a couple hops
<charlienyc[m]> My traceroutes just report stars where the ips should be after 2-3 hops no matter if I'm on the terrestrial link or the satellite link with backhaul and the Istanbul ix
<charlienyc[m]> Backhaul at*
<r0kk3rz> in which case id be tempted to keep them off the internet entirely.
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<r0kk3rz> them = the ipfs nodes
<charlienyc[m]> I don't have enough Pi's to make that useful
<charlienyc[m]> And I will be leaving in a few weeks with nobody else to maintain them
<charlienyc[m]> Ie not on the www is not an option
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<keks[m]> whyrusleeping, kevina: you up for a chat after the calls?
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<Kubuxu> !pin QmNnopN47oGKL1RyhWTbXNLzHUuHrGGoDqxZfBFwX3DEAf blog
<pinbot> now pinning on 8 nodes
<pinbot> pinned on 8 of 8 nodes (0 failures) -- https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmNnopN47oGKL1RyhWTbXNLzHUuHrGGoDqxZfBFwX3DEAf
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<TUSF> Not sure if my message went through, but: If I grab a hash through the HTTP API, is there any way for me to know if it's a file or a folder?
<lgierth> TUSF: cat will errors on dirs, ls will errors on files
<lgierth> both will error on stuff that isn't a unixfs object
<TUSF> Right. Ls...
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<flyingzumwalt> IPFS All Hands call will be in 1 hour
<flyingzumwalt> lead: sidharder notetaker: victorbjelkholm
<flyingzumwalt> (according to the auto-generated GH issue)
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<flyingzumwalt> mutable version of that link:
<Stskeeps> ipfs resolve -r /ipns/dweb-primer.ipfs.io/avenues-for-access/sneakernets.html: no link named "sneakernets.html" under QmZp7xEqZvwCHDHao1AL3cpmvYLC1PPzNH4TVgxwxQHqZs
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<Stskeeps> "I'm not kidding. If you'd like to access this content via sneakernet, IPFS is just fine with that. To find out how, follow the instructions in this tutorial
<Stskeeps> - that link
<lgierth> flyingzumwalt: ^
<flyingzumwalt> ah. missin /lessons/ in the url
<brendyn> This doesn't work for me /ipfs/QmT5NvUtoM5nWFfrQdVrFtvGfKFmG7AHE8P34isapyhCxX/wiki/Anasayfa.html
<brendyn> ipfs cat /ipfs/QmT5NvUtoM5nWFfrQdVrFtvGfKFmG7AHE8P34isapyhCxX/wiki/Anasayfa.html: no link named "wiki" under QmT5NvUtoM5nWFfrQdVrFtvGfKFmG7AHE8P34isapyhCxX
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<asymmetric> flyingzumwalt: is this dweb-primer available from the front page?
<voker57> brendyn: works for me
<Kubuxu> brendyn: update pfs
<Kubuxu> ipfs
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<brendyn> righto
<flyingzumwalt> asymmetric which front page are you referring to?
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<asymmetric> ipfs.io
<flyingzumwalt> ah -- do you mean through an ipfs gateway? let me grab the hasn
<flyingzumwalt> asymmetric the current hash of the primer is https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmcqCBTktATA1gzLuR5RcbXRZ375uXtpsioY7rSFhzCCZy/
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<voker57> yay matrix
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<sprint-helper1> The next event "IPFS All Hands Call" is in 15 minutes.
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<asymmetric> flyingzumwalt: thanks! i was mostly wondering if it's available from here https://ipfs.io/docs/
<asymmetric> and it seems like it isn't
<flyingzumwalt> asymmetric no not yet. it isn't done yet but we needed to make those tutorials available
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<keks[m]> there's going to be calls in 15min, right?
<asymmetric> cool, thx
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<flyingzumwalt> keks[m] yes.
<keks[m]> nice :)
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<keks[m]> glad i can make it again...
<lgierth> !pin QmS9RnpHnduRvV1TFHcXBGffRy6BBGmxHVZqjeta98yXAg blog.ipfs.io
<pinbot> now pinning on 8 nodes
<pinbot> pinned on 8 of 8 nodes (0 failures) -- https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmS9RnpHnduRvV1TFHcXBGffRy6BBGmxHVZqjeta98yXAg
<flyingzumwalt> does anyone know how to make the sprint-helper announce the call info?
<lgierth> sprint-helper1: help
<sprint-helper1> Feedback: https://github.com/ipfs/sprint-helper
<sprint-helper1> Correct usage: sprint-helper: announce <args> | next | now | tomorrow | help
<flyingzumwalt> yeah. not helpful
<lgierth> sprint-helper1: announce next
<sprint-helper1> Correct usage: sprint-helper: announce <topic name> <sprint issue> <notes> <zoom> <stream url or message>
<sprint-helper1> Error: Not enough arguments!
<lgierth> sprint-helper1: next
<sprint-helper1> The next event is "IPFS All Hands Call", in 8 minutes.
<sprint-helper1> Correct usage: sprint-helper: announce <args> | next | now | tomorrow | help
<sprint-helper1> Error: Unrecognized command!
<sprint-helper1> Correct usage: sprint-helper: announce <topic name> <sprint issue> <notes> <zoom> <stream url or message>
<sprint-helper1> Error: Not enough arguments!
<flyingzumwalt> sprint-helper announce "IPFS All Hands Call" 450 https://hackmd.io/EYZgTA7ApmYCwFoBmAGArBBcAcECMCAhpASmEgMYhTbqFoAmQA== https://zoom.us/j/779-351-365 no-stream
<sprint-helper1> Join Call: https://zoom.us/j/779-351-365
<sprint-helper1> Sprint Issue: https://github.com/ipfs/pm/issues/450
<sprint-helper1> Topic: IPFS All Hands Call
<sprint-helper1> ========================= IPFS Sprint: IPFS All Hands Call =========================
<sprint-helper1> ================================================================================
<sprint-helper1> Watch Stream: no-stream
<flyingzumwalt> yeah ^ that's starting in 10 minutes
<asymmetric> so if i only want to passively participate should i join the call?
<flyingzumwalt> kubuxu can we stream the call?
<flyingzumwalt> so people like asymmetric don't have to log into zoom?
<Kubuxu> not really, I might have to go early as for labs
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<flyingzumwalt> ok. then yes asymmetric just join through zoom. You can turn off your audio & camera.
<asymmetric> ok, hope i don't disturb if i join a little later
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<Kubuxu> not at all
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<kevina> I'm here and am watching the notes, let me know if I am needed...
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<lgierth> cool cool kevina
<keks[m]> kevina whyrusleeping: wanna chat after the call?
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<dyce[m]> how is the JS implementation in terms of ram usage?
<dyce[m]> lower than Go?
<kevina> keks[m], can you give me a chance to write up some notes, maybe in about 2 hours if its not too late for you
<keks[m]> 2h is a bit late over here...let's say in 1:42h?
<keks[m]> 7pm utc
<kevina> I am bad a time zones, that is about what I meant
<keks[m]> awesome. see you then
<substack> made with javascript
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<lgierth> substack: what is it?
<substack> music
<kiboneu> When will ipfs move completely to letsencrypt?
<lgierth> kiboneu: on it -- the ipfs.io cert is the last remaining one, it's bit more involved because it's a wildcard cert covering tons of subdomains
<kiboneu> Ah gotcha, sweet
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<lgierth> kiboneu: we'll eventually have a completely automated setup for ondemand certs
<lgierth> people can already point arbitrary domains at the gateways, similar to github pages
<lgierth> except no ssl certs yet :)
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<kiboneu> understood, thanks lgierth!
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<Kubuxu> lgierth: or we should just buy other wildcard
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<keks[m]> whyrusleeping: you happy with 7pm utc?
<whyrusleeping> isnt it already 7pm utc?
<whyrusleeping> oh
<whyrusleeping> pm
<whyrusleeping> right, no, its already that time, no?
<kevina> In about 1:30 minutes from now
<whyrusleeping> ooo
<whyrusleeping> sure
<lgierth> Kubuxu: yeah we can do that, or we can finally get that auto-ssl setup going :)
<keks[m]> great
<lgierth> Kubuxu: there's gonna be consul on all dweblink gateways so that'll help with distributing the certs
<Kubuxu> lgierth: the autossl feels like hole other endevour
<Kubuxu> s/hole/whole
<lgierth> yeah if it doesn't get ready in time let's just buy another wildcard
<Kubuxu> like you could build separate project on it
<kiboneu> what is the deadline for cert migration?
<Kubuxu> expiration of the cert I think
<whyrusleeping> why don't we just buy another wildcard *and then* do the auto-ssl thing?
<Kubuxu> yeah, that is what I am suggesting
<kiboneu> I think if it's from a vendor that's no longer trusted, I would consider it expired :)
<kpcyrd> whyrusleeping: you'd have to buy one at a different CA, it's currently a StartCom cert, who are end-of-lifed for doing shady business
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<whyrusleeping> blech
<whyrusleeping> kiboneu: agreed there
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<lgierth> yeah we can get one from gandi no problem
<lgierth> but tomorrow or so -- today is reserved for lol'ing at gentoo and freebsd :)
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<Kubuxu> hah
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<kiboneu> :) thanks
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<dsal> block QmXJph5DEcjgKUzGEjPxbrh8obeYAdUyRp69KX5vde6QXD was corrupt (open /Users/dustin/.ipfs/blocks/J3/CIQIKQKOX6Y6B5WBXMXUQNWPC7OBLRMHP3YR74677GXR5HXWRKEAJ3A.data: too many open files)
<dsal> I've got a couple of "too many open files" errors that are kind of annoying.
<Xe> dsal: up your file descriptor count max
<dsal> Yeah.
<kevina> keks[m], whyrusleeping: I just left some notes on https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/issues/3524
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<keks[m]> kevina: already replying :)
<dsal> Xe: Oh, I didn't realize it was more complicated than the easy thing.
<Xe> dsal: yeah, at least it's not as bad as old osx was
<dsal> I think this might be an old osx. I've not upgraded that box in a while.
<whyrusleeping> dsal: hrm... the real problem with file descriptors on osx is that our go-reuseport implementation is very naive on OSX
<whyrusleeping> we have a proper epoll thing setup in linux
<whyrusleeping> but on OSX we havent gotten around to making the kqueue stuff work right
<dsal> I just need to get a computer with disks and make various things easier.
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<dsal> Yeah, I'm just not able to put this file.
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<whyrusleeping> dsal: what file is it?
<whyrusleeping> is it just really large?
<dsal> Yeah
<dsal> Just a chunk of video.
<whyrusleeping> hrm... are you trying to 'ipfs get' it locally?
<whyrusleeping> to an osx machine?
<dsal> It's a file I have locally and I'm trying to add it.
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<whyrusleeping> could you set the env var IPFS_FD_MAX to 4096 and restart the daemon?
<dsal> 10:26:45.393 ERROR cmd/ipfs: setting file descriptor limit: error setting ulimit: operation not permitted daemon.go:197
<dsal> Yeah, won't let me get higher.
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<dsal> I don't even know what OS X this is. Whatever 13.4.0 means. Probably just need to get a real computer.
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<whyrusleeping> yeah, it might be good to get a real computer
<whyrusleeping> Alternatively, You could help us get official support for SO_REUSEPORT
<whyrusleeping> one big consumer of file descriptors is kqueue fds since we're running that separately from the go network stack
<lgierth> !pin Qmb3ps78pRH4zzgtDHeQCbhtLmaaBcCSkXG1vM36rAkBhk blog.ipfs.io
<pinbot> now pinning on 8 nodes
<pinbot> pinned on 8 of 8 nodes (0 failures) -- https://ipfs.io/ipfs/Qmb3ps78pRH4zzgtDHeQCbhtLmaaBcCSkXG1vM36rAkBhk
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<achin> have you guys thought about an URL shortening service for ipfs urls?
<achin> thinking that pinbot could say something like "pinned on 8 nodes, 0 failures -- https://ipfs.io/_/abc123"
<lgierth> these wouldn't be portable though
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<achin> indeed
<lgierth> unless you hook them up to some naming service
<TUSF> Well, a website domain can be resolved to a key, and I think that's good enough. Setting arbitrary names could complicate things.
<lgierth> dns isn't very secure though ;)
<TUSF> Actually, what about HTTP headers like X-IPFS-LINK, or something, that could tell ipfs to point only a specific webpage to a certain hash?
<r0kk3rz> whats wrong with the current gateway urls? they are at least fixed length
<lgierth> actually the gateway sends X-Ipfs-Path but it's not very good yet (doesn't always have the canonical hash in it)
<TUSF> Well, I guess that might make things redundant and complicated, with the dnslink.
<lgierth> r0kk3rz: they aren't, a CID can have any length
<TUSF> r0kk3rz: Human readability
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<r0kk3rz> lgierth: of course, but in practice...
<lgierth> you'll see CIDs of different lengths pop up more and more
<TUSF> Well, go-ipfs's key gen only accepts a 32-bit integer for the size value.
<lgierth> heh
<lgierth> that's not relevant for CIDs though ;)
<TUSF> You mean the way it's implemented isn't relevant, right?
<lgierth> key gen is only relevant for IPNS keys so far
<lgierth> and the length of the PeerID for a key depends on the hash function, not on the key length
<TUSF> ah
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<lgierth> and CIDs (what's in /ipfs/$cid) are different from that altogether, they're just hashes of data blocks, with a bit of self-description added (base, type, hashfunction)
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<Guest85030> Hey, any idea when ipns will be supported in ipfs-js? It's hard to implement applications without it.
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<lgierth> i think ipns ss pretty close (cc dignifiedquire ^)
<lgierth> *is pretty close
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<mahloun> can't `ipfs dht findpeer` find its own id? Why?
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<ianopolous__> nice work on wikipedia everyone!
<emunand[m]> yes, hopefully it will get more people interested in IPFS!
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<TUSF> Someone on Hacker News is worried that blatantly blogging about this might lead to IPFS being blocked before it has time to spread. I kinda agree, but at the same time I'd rather put the message out there instead.
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<kevina> Kubuxu, whyrusleeping: I am going to drop the last two commits from feat/datastore-configs in https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/pull/3575/files
<kevina> I will save them in feat/datastore-configs-wip
<Kubuxu> yeah, the sbs ones? sure
<Kubuxu> ty
<kevina> and the "--wip--" one, is that sbt related also?
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<whyrusleeping> kevina: SGTM
<kevina> ok
<Kubuxu> no it was my try on making the config cleaner but I got into recursive pkg deps
<kevina> Kubuxu: is it worth trying to fix?
<Kubuxu> that approach?
<Kubuxu> It will be hard.
<Kubuxu> I would say, it was very nice thing but it will be very hard in Go.
<kumavis> ipfs on the top of hacker news!
<kevina> Kubuxu: okay for now I leave the "--wip--" commit out
<Kubuxu> It was me getting my head sucked back into Java and Scala lands where lang allows to make very nice interfaces.
<Kubuxu> but with Go's limitations, I don't think so.
<kevina> okay
<mahloun> I'm not sure to understand everything right. Can you confirm my understanding about what follows? IPNS is a way to retrieve a data through peer id? If I want to have multiple data available with the same process, I have to create additional keys and publish some refs with these new keys?
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<dsal> mahloun: ipns is only required to have a consistent pointer to data that might change
<mahloun> ok it's more like an alias though?
<dsal> Yeah. It's a strongly authenticated pointer to an ipfs object.
<mahloun> dsal: thank you very much.
<dsal> I can give you the pointer, say /ipns/QmP8uqUuowHdixyFASba87ABgVxfoKGj8NyrTH2VLLTFkZ and then you can grab that any time you want, but I can update the thing it points to.
<dsal> You know that it will have been updated by me (where me == QmP8uqUuowHdixyFASba87ABgVxfoKGj8NyrTH2VLLTFkZ) and I don't have to tell you when I change it.
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<mahloun> because of the immutability of ipfs. Normally, if you change a data previously referenced it gets a new hash. Using ipns you keep the name. Am I right?
<charlienyc[m]> lgierth: you awake?
<dsal> mahloun: Yes. ipns is a mutable pointer to immutable state.
<mahloun> oh I see nice, so It's more like the HEAD pointer from git?
<dsal> yeah
<dsal> But authenticated.
<mahloun> dsal: authenticated?
<dsal> ipns names point to keys and ipfs isn't supposed to take updates that aren't signed.
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<mahloun> ok so it ensures that the update is made by the node?
<dsal> Yeah.
<dsal> Not just someone else saying "No, QmP8uqUuowHdixyFASba87ABgVxfoKGj8NyrTH2VLLTFkZ points to this stuff now!"
<mahloun> dsal: nice thank you very much again :)
<dsal> It didn't make sense to me until someone mentioned "web" i.e, I can link to a page that you maintain without you having to tell me whenever you update it and get me to fix up my site (and tell whoever links to mine to update theirs now)
<mahloun> of course I does make sense
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<whyrusleeping> charlienyc[m]: lgierth is out for a little bit, need something?
<charlienyc[m]> whyrusleeping: I need the recent hash of the TR.wiki dumps so I can clone locally
<whyrusleeping> charlienyc[m]: QmT5NvUtoM5nWFfrQdVrFtvGfKFmG7AHE8P34isapyhCxX
<charlienyc[m]> Got my daemon running
<whyrusleeping> last four letters are house charlie xavier xavier, as a basic human checksum
<charlienyc[m]> Cool
<charlienyc[m]> I could look at the docs, but someone wanna tell me what to do instead?
<charlienyc[m]> Ipfs cat?
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<whyrusleeping> charlienyc[m]: for the replication, you'll want to run your daemon with `ipfs daemon --routing=none`
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<whyrusleeping> then connect manually to a node that has the data (this is just for efficiency)
<whyrusleeping> charlienyc[m]: what is your download speed like? and where-ish is your node?
<whyrusleeping> I have a node in turkey that has almost all the data replicated, you can connect to it
<charlienyc[m]> Then ipfs cat hash?
<whyrusleeping> then ipfs pin add hash
<charlienyc[m]> Done
<whyrusleeping> but first, you'll want to connect to my node, i'll pm you its address
<achin> what does --routing=none do (and is it different from --routing=dhtclient) ?
<whyrusleeping> achin: dhtclient will still send out provider messages, which will severely slow down the transfer in bandwidth limited environments
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<whyrusleeping> charlienyc[m]: you can run `ipfs pin add --progress <hash>` to get some feedback
<whyrusleeping> just kill the running command and it will start over from where it left off
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<wak-work> is there tooling for automatic ipns renewal?
<whyrusleeping> wak-work: for the default key, it auto renews
<wak-work> oh okay
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<whyrusleeping> for the other keys, we're working on it
<wak-work> yeah that's what it looks like here
<wak-work> it would be cool if ipfs-cluster could handle it
<deltab> is it possible to set up cron or the like?
<whyrusleeping> this tool should work, though its poorly documented: https://github.com/whyrusleeping/ipns-pub
<wak-work> yeah i saw that
<whyrusleeping> deltab: yeah, you can setup a cron
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<lgierth> charlienyc[m]: here's a host that has the stuff: ipfs swarm connect /ip4/144.76.60.46/tcp/4001/ipfs/QmZSe5GZJb5jcKQZzQmdWaFtimTHafjvtxyMMTJy5nZ6hN
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<whyrusleeping> lgierth: i gave him my box in turkey
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<lgierth> cool cool
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<stavros> hello
<stavros> i just downloaded ipfs for the first time, and i have published a website on ipfs and ipns. how can i browse that with my browser?
<emunand[m]> localhost:(port of the gateway)/ipfs/hash
<emunand[m]> or replace ipfs with ipns to access the ipns version of it
<stavros> i have to run `ipfs daemon` for that to work?
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<emunand[m]> yep
<stavros> thank you
<emunand[m]> it's the only way to let other ipfs users know about your website
<stavros> so adding it doesn't actually send it to other nodes, it just adds it to my local db?
<stavros> and then for users to be able to fetch it, the daemon needs to be running?
<Mateon1> stavros: If your daemon is on, and other people request the hash you added you will provide the content to those people
<stavros> and their daemons will cache it and forward it to others if mine is down?
<Mateon1> Yes, it needs to be on. Somebody else might cache or pin the content, so they share it as well
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<charlienyc[m]> Any reason my daemon keeps crashing? Just alpha problems?
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<charlienyc[m]> Got as far as 12k nodes, then when I have to restart, it gets to ~2k and crashes
<lgierth> can you post the crashdump?
<lgierth> we're looking into a crash right now too
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<charlienyc[m]> On the box?
<charlienyc[m]> Can you tell me exactly what to type?
<lgierth> the daemon prints the crash dump before exiting
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<charlienyc[m]> Commands/h err: context canceled handler.go:288
<lgierth> ah that's the client, not the daemon
<lgierth> or rather, it's the daemon printing that the client aborted
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<charlienyc[m]> Hmm
<Kubuxu> !pin QmYEZtWkxdRCCKYShAjFqF1m1RjX7Kdq5vqvkzQenYMF3b new-blog
<pinbot> now pinning on 8 nodes
<charlienyc[m]> I didn't touch it? By client, do you mean the server
<pinbot> pinned on 8 of 8 nodes (0 failures) -- https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmYEZtWkxdRCCKYShAjFqF1m1RjX7Kdq5vqvkzQenYMF3b
<stavros> hey, it works! QmaYG87xptrKHTwm7b8tteU7GvCoM5aReRP5k2AHwLAiUX
<stavros> what's a url i can give people for that? /ipns/QmaYG87xptrKHTwm7b8tteU7GvCoM5aReRP5k2AHwLAiUX?
<kevina> whyrusleeping: I can probably finish up https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/pull/3575 tonight once I get some feedback from you...
<emunand[m]> stavros: yep, that works! if you want to supply a gateway, put ipfs.io on the front of it
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<charlienyc[m]> lgierth: what should I be doing? Waiting? It seems to be stalled
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<stavros> emunand[m], great, thank you! so i can basically have a build script that publishes every new version to ipfs and updates that name, huh
<stavros> that is pretty cool
<achin> charlienyc[m]: in 1 terminal you ran the daemon, and in another terminal, you ran "ipfs pin", right?
<charlienyc[m]> Yes
<lgierth> charlienyc[m]: pinning does currently sometimes stall for a while :/ there's a bug somewhere
<lgierth> alternatively, you can run `ipfs refs -r <hash>` and then when that's finished pin add
<achin> did you see any errors/crashes/bad things in the terminal running ipfs-pin ?
<charlienyc[m]> Oh. Then I may have cancelled and caused the "crash" on my end
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<lgierth> you need to keep the pin add command running :)
<lgierth> it'll stay open until it's finished
<charlienyc[m]> Client.go err:247
<charlienyc[m]> Kk
<charlienyc[m]> Won't touch anymore
<lgierth> you can pass --progress to get some feedback
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<achin> sometimes i'll use "ipfs get", which gives a nice progress bar too (but has this considerable disadvantage of requiring twice the disk-space, since it'll download a copy into $IPFS_PATH and your CWD)
<Quark> What will it happen it ipfs.io goes down (stops resolving, expires, or gets blocked)? How do I access the IPFS then?
<whyrusleeping> Quark: run your own ipfs daemon
<whyrusleeping> switch out ipfs.io for localhost:8080
<Quark> whyrusleeping: under my own domain?
<whyrusleeping> or just on your computer
<Quark> whyrusleeping: is there any "tracker" on IPFS? If so, who runs it?
<stavros> hmm, for some reason this isn't working: https://ipfs.io/ipns/QmaYG87xptrKHTwm7b8tteU7GvCoM5aReRP5k2AHwLAiUX
<stavros> my local daemon is, though
<achin> there are bootstrap nodes, but that's not really the same as a tracker
<stavros> maybe i need to forward a port?
<achin> stavros: is your node connected to any peers?
<achin> and has your node been online since your IPNS publisehd?
<emunand[m]> stavros: forward your gateway port, it is required on some routers
<Quark> achin: can I run my own bootstrap node? Where are the instructions?
<lgierth> emunand[m]: not the gateway port
<stavros> achin, it doesn't mention anything like that in the console log
<lgierth> the gateway port doesn't do peering or data exchange
<stavros> emunand[m], yes, it has
<stavros> err, sorry, achin, yes it has
<achin> Quark: if you look at "ipfs config show", you can see the bootstrap nodes. they arne't special, other than running 24/7 on a fixed public IP
<emunand[m]> oops, i meant the 4001 port
<emunand[m]> the swarm port
<achin> stavros: i would try re-publishing
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<Quark> achin: so, a bootstrap node can be my own, there is no difference? I must be missing something. Say we only have the very first two nodes on IPFS (nothing else), how do they "find" each other?
<achin> the very first two nodes need to be manually connected together
<achin> for example by running "ipfs swawm connect" on one to connect to the other
<achin> new nodes need the address of at least 1 other node in the swarm to join
<Quark> achin: so, I should be able to run my own IPFS on my intranet, correct?
<stavros> achin, hmm, odd, i tried publishing and it's just taking a long time with no output
<achin> Quark: yes. are you thinking about running some type of private swarm?
<stavros> is there an outgoing port i can use to trigger incoming?
<achin> stavros: how many peers is your node connected to? (How many entires in the output of 'ipfs swarm peers')
<stavros> 371, it worked now
<stavros> i think i had the wrong hash
<stavros> err, sorry, but you get the gist
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<emunand[m]> no the ipns hash works fine
<stavros> emunand[m], this one does, the previous one wasn't
<achin> indeed. https://ipfs.io/ipns/QmaYG87xptrKHTwm7b8tteU7GvCoM5aReRP5k2AHwLAiUX/ now works. re-publishing must have fixed it
<stavros> also, question: if i want to republish something at an IPNS hash, i need to create a key for it, right?
<stavros> ah, huh, thanks
<achin> the default mode of "ipfs name publish" is to publish something under your peerID (the id you see in the output of "Ipfs id")
<achin> but you can use the --key option to publish under another key (something that was previously genereated with "Ipfs key gen")
<stavros> ah, i see, thanks
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<Kubuxu> !pin QmbyyXNdEgVo2EDgjhPhXEsKQq9qvVFw84rgHsXT937ssj json-gateway
<pinbot> now pinning on 8 nodes
<stavros> yeah, a key is preferable
<pinbot> pinned on 8 of 8 nodes (0 failures) -- https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmbyyXNdEgVo2EDgjhPhXEsKQq9qvVFw84rgHsXT937ssj
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<stavros> what does pinning do? make the files available on other nodes?
<dsal> stavros: pinning makes an object not be subject to gc on your node
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<stavros> dsal, thanks
<emunand[m]> available perminently
<achin> pinning will 1) recursively download the hash to your node, and 2) makes the hashes as pinned so they won't be removed during a garbage collection
<stavros> but it's not recursive, right? pinning a directory won't pin all the files?
<stavros> oh it will? interesting
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<rovdyl> you can set it to not do that if you want
<stavros> so can i use this to pin my website?
<rovdyl> --recursive=false
<rovdyl> sure
<stavros> rovdyl, that's on the local daemon, right?
<rovdyl> should be, yes
<stavros> but things i "ipfs add" are already pinned, correct?
<rovdyl> by default, yeah. You can also set it to not do that with --pin=false
<achin> it's expecting that if you want some content to always be available on the IPFS network, you should pin it
<achin> expected*
<stavros> i see, thank you
<achin> (so yeah, you should pin your own website)
<rovdyl> ideally you also have other people pin it, but that's a little harder to organize right now
<achin> get your friends to use ipfs! make them pin it too!
<stavros> i think i'm going to make a publishing plugin for lektor (the static website generator)
<stavros> it seems to be taking forever to load this, though https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmaYG87xptrKHTwm7b8tteU7GvCoM5aReRP5k2AHwLAiUX
<achin> that sounds cool
<stavros> !pin QmaYG87xptrKHTwm7b8tteU7GvCoM5aReRP5k2AHwLAiUX
<stavros> hmm
<achin> not everyone can use pinbot
<stavros> ah
<dsal> What? No free storage?
<achin> it works on a whitelist
<stavros> makes sense
<achin> but that's the wrong URL
<dsal> stavros: ipfs pins ls
<stavros> oh damn, ipns
<stavros> right, thank you
<stavros> pin ls?
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<dsal> That'll show you what you have pinned.
<achin> (on your local node)
<stavros> right, it's a bunch of stuff
<stavros> very nice
<stavros> hmm, what are the bandwidth and storage requirements?
<stavros> maybe i'll run a node permanently
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<achin> depends on how much stuff you want to put into IPFS
<wak-work> there are no requirements
<rovdyl> although 24/7 uptime is always a plus
<achin> (by "put into IPFS" i should have said "Make available on IPFS")
<stavros> can i limit it somehow?
<wak-work> yes
<charlienyc[m]> lgierth: stalled again, for 20 mins
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<whyrusleeping> charlienyc[m]: did it resume after 20 min?
<wak-work> whyrusleeping: is there a plan to be able to use ed25519 keys for nodes?
<whyrusleeping> wak-work: yeah, we can probably enable them in master now
<dsal> stavros: ipfs stats bw
<whyrusleeping> i think the supporting code is deployed widely enough
<achin> "ipfs stats bw" will show you the bandwidth stats. but i'm not aware of anyway to do bandwidth limiting
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<rovdyl> I heard talk of adding bandwidth of storage caps. Don't know the progerss on that
<stavros> ah, thanks
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<dsal> ipfs stats storage needs github.com/dustin/go-humanize :)
<wak-work> you could always use cgroups or something for that
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<charlienyc[m]> whyrusleeping: no. Still stalled
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<achin> charlienyc[m]: what does "ipfs stats bitswap" say?
<charlienyc[m]> No errors
<achin> how many keys in the wantlist?
<charlienyc[m]> 8
<charlienyc[m]> 5 partners
<charlienyc[m]> Sent 10x as much data as received
<achin> your just connecrted to whyrusleeping's node, right?
<charlienyc[m]> I turned off routing
<charlienyc[m]> So, yes, I think
<achin> ok. so the 5 partners is fine (normally that'd be very low)
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<rhett> does anyone know how to use systemd to set up an ipfs service?
<charlienyc[m]> Anyway, should I wait it out or....?
<rovdyl> I think the aur has a good example service file
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<rhett> I'm using this file in /lib/systemd/system/ipfs.service
<achin> charlienyc[m]: can you pastebin your current wantlist? i guess the thing to do first is confirm that those hashes are available (though they should be)
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<rhett> wak-work: still failed
<rovdyl> are you running it with --user ?
<rhett> sudo systemctl start ipfs.service
<rhett> no --user
<rovdyl> that will run it as root, which will look for a repo in /root
<wak-work> rhett: if you are using my service you have to have an ipfs user
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<charlienyc[m]> Lol. No. Pastebin is blocked
<wak-work> since i don run shit as roo
<achin> what about gist.github.com?
<rovdyl> did you already run "ipfs init"?
<stavros> why is pastebin blocked?
<charlienyc[m]> achin: ^
<rhett> yes, I ran ipfs init
<charlienyc[m]> Because I'm in a country with a repressive regime
<emunand[m]> pastebin is blocked for you guys?
<rhett> ipfs daemon works
<rovdyl> emunand: pastebin's fine for me
<emunand[m]> out of every website, Turkey decides pastebin?
<rovdyl> oh, I see. Sorry about that guys
<charlienyc[m]> Np
<charlienyc[m]> You didn't know
<rovdyl> ipfsbin soon
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<charlienyc[m]> rovdyl: you got an email?
<charlienyc[m]> I don't have access to this server on the device running ipfs
<rovdyl> rovdyl@openaliasbox.org
<rovdyl> rhett: so you're starting the service with "systemctl --user start ipfs"?
<emunand[m]> i remember someone trying to make ipfsbin, not sure what happened
<wak-work> it worked
<wak-work> and it's not hosted anymore
<wak-work> you don't really need an ipfsbin type ui
<wak-work> just add text
<wak-work> and send and ipfs link
<rovdyl> yeah, but a nice ui always helps
<emunand[m]> it would be nice to have the link to be truncated, though
<emunand[m]> and an easy to remember hash name
<rhett> it works as a user when I put it in ~/.config/systemd/user/ipfs.service
<rhett> rovdyl: I don't understand why I can't launch ipfs as a system wide service
<rhett> the whole point of this particular vm is just to be an ipfs node
<wak-work> becuase you didn't ipfs init for the user ipfs is running as
<rovdyl> if you're trying to run it as root, then it will need a repo in the /root/.ipfs directory
<wak-work> make an ipfs user
<rovdyl> sudo ipfs init could work if that's what you want
<wak-work> ipfs init as that user
<rovdyl> but that would be better
<wak-work> then make the service run as the ipfs user
<charlienyc[m]> rovdyl: sent
<rhett> ok, so I rebooted, and it didn't start up
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<rhett> I already have /root/.ipfs
<rovdyl> charlienyc[m]: sorry, I'm not sure what you're asking for, I just showed up here
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<rovdyl> rhett: are you running the service as root?
<rovdyl> rhett: try sudo ipfs daemon and see if that works
<rhett> I don't care, i just want it to start on boot
<rhett> ok, I think it might work now
<rhett> rebooting
<rovdyl> then enabling it as root with sudo should do that
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<rovdyl> alright
<rhett> cool, works now
<rhett> thanks rovdyl !
<rovdyl> great! np
<rovdyl> although, I'd probably recommend looking into running it as a regular user. You can do it as your own user if you don't want to set one up
<rovdyl> that's what I do
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<rovdyl> achin: here's charlienyc's bitswap stats he emailed to me, by the way. I think you asked for them https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmTfh5MwpxhuZPcvED2Qjn5ro8FVrfpkTqbhVxnqNRT5SZ
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<achin> thanks
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<achin> charlienyc[m]: sorry i'm not sure what to suggest. i think you need whyrusleeping's help
<stavros> shouldn't i be able to connect from one computer to another in my lan with "ipfs swarm connect /ip4/ip/etc"?
<stavros> i'm getting "use of closed network connection"
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<achin> stavros: yes, i think that should work fine
<stavros> hmm
<achin> are you supplying all of the right parts to the multiaddr?
<rovdyl> it should look something like /ip4/[IP]/tcp/[Port]/ipfs/[PeerID]
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<rovdyl> you can get exactly what you need by running "ipfs id" on the other node and using the appropriate address under "Addreses"
<charlienyc[m]> Still stalled
<charlienyc[m]> Kk
<stavros> rovdyl, that did the trick, thank you
<charlienyc[m]> whyrusleeping: you.up? It stalled
<rovdyl> cool, no problem
<stavros> i'm trying to pin some files i published from one computer to the other, but it seems to be going very slowly
<stavros> it's just 110 mb on LAN
<stavros> yet the .ipfs dir for the pinning computer is only 200 kb still
<rovdyl> hmm, try restarting the request now that your connected?
<rovdyl> you might also want to re-announce on the providing node. I'll have to check the command for that
<charlienyc[m]> rovdyl: hard restarting worked
<rovdyl> oh okay, nice
<charlienyc[m]> The daemon, I mean
<charlienyc[m]> 2k nodes. 706k to go!
<rovdyl> what were you trying to do? I wasn't here
<achin> charlienyc is pinning the turkish wikipedia i believe
<rovdyl> stavros: ipfs dht provide <key> should re-announce that a node is providing a key
<rovdyl> oh, very nice, thanks charlienyc
<stavros> rovdyl, thank you, but it seems the problem was that i was trying to pin the ipns key
<stavros> pinning the ipfs key works fine
<rovdyl> ha, that'll do it
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<charlienyc[m]> achin: rovdyl thanks for your help.
<charlienyc[m]> When I restart does it repin the nodes I've already pinned?
<wak-work> pins persist
<rovdyl> sure thing, and yeah it should store your pins in your repo
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<stavros> can i configure ipfs to connect to a daemon that is not localhost?
<stavros> and will "ipfs add" talk to that daemon to add data?
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<rovdyl> I think you'll have to use the http api for that
<stavros> ah, hm
<rovdyl> I found an issue discussing it https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/issues/1421
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<rovdyl> oh, maybe you can actually
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<rovdyl> yeah, using that script at the end should set it up for you
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<rovdyl> You'll probably have to open some ports for it
<stavros> they're all open between these computers
<rovdyl> then it should be fine
<stavros> so basically i just need to create a file called "api" and write something into it?
<stavros> oh, it's tunnelling
<rovdyl> I think the tunneling is just to get around port forwarding
<rovdyl> maybe don't use that script then
<stavros> yeah
<stavros> i'll just change the ip
<rovdyl> yeah looks like what you need is just in that printf
<stavros> hmm, "api not running"
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<stavros> do i need a command to enable the api?
<rovdyl> what port did you put?
<stavros> ah it's probably listening on localhost
<stavros> yep, that was it
<stavros> ipfs config Addresses.API /ip4/192.168.10.100/tcp/5001
<stavros> on the daemon
<rovdyl> neat, didn't know you could do that
<stavros> yeah, that is pretty neat
<stavros> i'm going to keep this daemon running for a while, this is cool
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<rovdyl> stavros: I believe putting setting the ip to 0.0.0.0 should make it work across reboots, unless you have a static local ip for the daemon
<stavros> i do indeed
<rovdyl> oh well nevermind then
<stavros> the ipfs hash is based on the file hash, right? if the file doesn't change, the same hash is reused when readded?
<rovdyl> yup
<stavros> great, thanks
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<wak-work> stavros: assuming you dont change the chunking algorithm
<wak-work> or the hashing algorithm
<rovdyl> or the cid version
<wak-work> yeah
<wak-work> basically don't assume it will always return the same thing over time
<wak-work> for the same file
<rovdyl> well, ideally it should
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<wak-work> but with the same version of ipfs it should be the same
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<rovdyl> but sometimes ipfs upgrades and could mess with that
<stavros> that makes sense
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<rovdyl> should happen pretty rarely, though
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