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<sonata>
Can I make the gateway bind to multiple addresses?
<austincheney>
Hello, I am new to IPFS. Does it work just with files or can it also work with applications?
<sonata>
austincheney: I think it depends on your config settings
<sonata>
there are apps built on IPFS, but if you want them to run in the web browser you might have to fiddle with permissions
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<deltab>
austincheney: it can work with other data too: for instance IPLD is a networks of JSON objects that link to one another
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<austincheney>
sonata, I only recently discovered IPFS, but over the past year I have been writing an application distribution app that has many of the same goals. To be an application distribution tool it would have to package files, typically a directory, for distribution (publication) and conversly unpackage them upon request (installation).
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<whyrusleeping>
austincheney: you can store any kind of data in ipfs
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<austincheney>
awesome!
<austincheney>
I will consider what it takes to migrate from my app into ipfs
<deltab>
IRC-style chat for instance: message records link to earlier messages, and so on
<sonata>
oh, if you just want to download files that are software that will later be executed, then yeah that works fine
<deltab>
(which is also the basis of Matrix)
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<austincheney>
could IPFS be used as a replacement for NPM? I am looking at the ipfs/js-ipfs repo now
<sonata>
That sounds like a perfectly reasonable use case to me
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<emunand[m]>
i think you could take some ideas from gx as well, since npm is a package manager
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<M-anomie>
Can I upload an arbitrary merkle tree into ipfs and navigate it yet?
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<whyrusleeping>
M-anomie: depends on what format it is
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<jamesstanley>
I'm also running a public writable gateway at https://hardbin.com/
<jamesstanley>
interested to hear feedback (positive and negative)
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<tangent128>
Sounds interesting, I'll take a look.
<whyrusleeping>
jamesstanley: oooo
<whyrusleeping>
i like that
<jamesstanley>
thanks man :)
<whyrusleeping>
jamesstanley: i would allow the user to input randomness for the keygen with their mouse or keyboard or something
<jamesstanley>
yes, there is definitely room for improvement there
<jamesstanley>
currently it is just Math.random()
<whyrusleeping>
also maybe add the hash of the content to the entropy
<emunand[m]>
or a shorter link using ipns
<emunand[m]>
or something like "hardbin.com/23fe0x"
<whyrusleeping>
that lowers the security of the system
<tangent128>
I don't think ipns could shorten the link any. You'd still have a hash and a key in the URL
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<jamesstanley>
my primary aim was to make it possible to use securely (i.e. just access it over your local gateway), but possible to fall back to less secure modes for users who don't yet use ipfs
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<whyrusleeping>
well, i guess if its a shortname inside an ipns entry, it could be shorter and still secure, but then youre trusting some third party not to modify the ipns entry and change your thing
<jamesstanley>
hence the public gateway, and detailed instructions in the event that they're using it on a non-writable gateway
<Quiark_>
jamesstanley, there is crypto API in browser for getting CSPRNG
<jamesstanley>
the length of the encrypted content gives you some idea of the length of the plaintext
<whyrusleeping>
M-anomie: technically no
<M-anomie>
jamesstanley: Is that all the server knows?
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<jamesstanley>
yeah; there doesn't even have to be "the" server
<jamesstanley>
you can run it on any writable gateway
<M-anomie>
Neat.
<tangent128>
Next step: allow the URL to contain an IPNS private key, to provide an "editable" link. :P
<tangent128>
(not actually doable yet, though after I grok the code enough, one thing I do hope to do is add a "POST /ipns/" gateway method)
<M-anomie>
jamesstanley: The encrypted content is "content", right? I kinda wanna make a script now.
<jamesstanley>
yeah
<jamesstanley>
the code I've written is a bit messy
<jamesstanley>
I do intend to tidy it up I swear :p
<whyrusleeping>
tangent128: that would be really cool to have
<Quiark_>
jamesstanley, did you use authenticated encryption?
<jamesstanley>
no, but it's served over ipfs
<jamesstanley>
I just used aes.js from crypto-js
<jamesstanley>
I beleive it's CBC mode but could be wrong
<M-anomie>
Oh, that means I might have to experiment?
<M-anomie>
Also, I guess there's no multiformat for ciphers yet?
<jamesstanley>
I think you'll either need to work out what crypto-js is doing, or experiment
<jamesstanley>
there'll be some key-derivation function as well
<Quiark_>
AES is good, you don't really need anything else
<jamesstanley>
however, if you want to make a script to *create* pastes, then you don't need it to be compatible with mine
<jamesstanley>
all you need to do is create a piece of content + a piece of javascript that knows how to decrypt it
<M-anomie>
jamesstanley: I want it to be compatible tho.
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<Quiark_>
jamesstanley, authenticated encryption may still be needed, having the IPFS hash doesnt mean its authenticated.
<jamesstanley>
ok, I don't know what authenticated encryption is then
<Quiark_>
jamesstanley, the keywords here are "CBC padding oracle" and you can get the article "Cryptographic Doom Principle" from Moxie
<jamesstanley>
but you know that the content fed into it is already correct
<jamesstanley>
because ipfs
<Quiark_>
jamesstanley, no you dont - where do you get the URL?
<jamesstanley>
you have to trust that the url you're using is correct
<Quiark_>
the URL could be one of 3 states: correct, wrong and malicious
<jamesstanley>
the user doesn't input the key, the key is part of the url
<jamesstanley>
if the url is malicious and you click on it, it already gets the key for free
<jamesstanley>
the key is passed in the fragment
<M-anomie>
What is this "data" property I keep seeing in the DAG? Sorry, I know it's propably obvious to you but I can't find the right spec.
<Quiark_>
a CBC padding oracle is only applicable if this is integrated into another system and decryptions could happen automatically
<tangent128>
Is the threat that the malicious entity gets the key? Because they invent the key in this case.
<jamesstanley>
a cbc padding oracle attack knows the ciphertext and knows somebody who knows the key, and knows how to get the person who knows the key to try to decrypt the ciphertext
<Quiark_>
the attack requires that an attacker is able to send many variations of the original ciphertext to a decryptor and learn one bit of information each time: whether the CBC padding was OK or not
<Quiark_>
this pastebin does allow sending variations of ciphertext: just change the IPFS hash, keep the key the same and send it
<Quiark_>
decryption is not automated tho
<jamesstanley>
if you already know the key, you don't need to do that
<jamesstanley>
and if you don't already know the key, how can you send somebody a working link?
<jamesstanley>
and if you are going to send it to them for them to put the key in, you may as well just make the code POST the key to some server you control
<Quiark_>
yeah, right, the key is there in plaintext
<M-anomie>
What's the modern equivalent of `ipfs object cat --fmt=yaml QmUmg7BZC1YP1ca66rRtWKxpXp77WgVHrnv263JtDuvs2k`?
<jamesstanley>
a key point is that the encrypted content and the decryption code are all bundled into the same ipfs hash; if you can change one, you can change the other
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<brunoivas[m]>
should i use my real name in this program?
<brunoivas[m]>
sory that was a stupid question
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<brunoivas[m]>
a good one now
<brunoivas[m]>
what happens to my history?
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<Quiark_>
jamesstanley, so the threat model is IPFS network (you're encrypting the thing to hide it from IPFS, the storage layer)
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<tangent128>
Since anything on IPFS is publicly readable, yes.
<Quiark_>
jamesstanley, so what if the IPFS peer you're getting the cryptotext started feeding you those malicious variations?
<tangent128>
I think you can trust your local gateway to verify the hash it serves up?
<Quiark_>
yeah, I guess
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<M-anomie>
I see some discussion of voluntary blocklists, and I get the reason why, but doesn't this risk making gateways "curated content" in the eyes of the law in many jurisdictions, thus putting gateway owners in more legal peril than they'd be in otherwise?
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<whyrusleeping>
M-anomie: i think users setting 'allowlists' would be more likely to be considered curated than blocklists
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<whyrusleeping>
if you set something like 'only serve things on this list'
<whyrusleeping>
that feels like curation
<whyrusleeping>
though i'm really not sure how the law plays out for any of this
<SchrodingersScat>
elon musk is going to let us host everything in space soon anyway, it's in the cloud, has that been tweeted to him yet?
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<SchrodingersScat>
and done
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<M-anomie>
whyrusleeping: I think Facebook and Twitter have settled against similar claims.
<M-anomie>
SchrodingersScat: I think Musk is overrated tbh, but is that true?
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<Quiark_>
no it's Jeff Bezos who's building rockets to put AWS in space
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<SchrodingersScat>
I can never tell those two apart, does it matter?
<Quiark_>
not as long as the servers are floating above our heads
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<M-anomie>
I don't like the idea of AWS controlling the internet of millions of people tbqh (assuming this is an isp thing)
<tangent128>
How would you cool orbital server farms?
<SchrodingersScat>
space ice
<Quiark_>
tangent128, the idea of orbital server farms is already pretty cool
<tangent128>
This is a fair point.
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<SchrodingersScat>
there won't be copyright notices, because it's so expensive to send mail to satellites
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<M-anomie>
Wishful thinking, because the company is still HQ'd on earth (for now).
<M-anomie>
Also, threats of "kinetic force" become a concern.
<M-anomie>
Once you flee the rule of civilized society, you have to worry about… everything else.
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<sonata>
What's the difference between PUT and POST gateway permissions?
<tangent128>
Permissions? I don't think there's a permission difference.
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<tangent128>
POST is for uploading a single file and getting its hash; PUT is to work with DAG file trees.
<M-anomie>
Why are there so many ipfs sites where the assets aren't available?
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<M-anomie>
Do people forget to use recursion or something?
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<McJuicy>
in IPFS do you have to republish content after 24 hours for it to be consistently available ?
<reit>
pretty sure it does it automatically
<reit>
if your daemon is still on
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<Mateon1>
McJuicy: Only with /ipns hashes. /ipfs hashes should 'just work' as long as at least one peer has a copy
<McJuicy>
Thansk Mateon1, so basically if I want my node's hash to be available for a DNS record I have to just republish the node's existance itself
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<Mateon1>
McJuicy: Yeah, if you use dnslink with an /ipns hash, your node has to stay online (IPFS will automatically republish every 12h), but if you use dnslink with an /ipfs hash everything should work even if your node goes offline, assuming somebody else has the content
<McJuicy>
thanks again :)
<McJuicy>
stoked about IPFS
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<dgrisham>
victorbjelkholm: ah, awesome :) I've been told that you might have tips on how to use prometheus to gather metrics (e.g. bandwidth graphs) of nodes running on kubernetes-ipfs?
<victorbjelkholm>
dgrisham: hm, yeah, when I experimented with it, all I had to do was spinning up a pod for collecting metrics and setting tags on the deployments that should be collected. Let me see if I can find where that was
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<dgrisham>
victorbjelkholm: gotcha, I've noticed those files/lines, I guess all I have to do is spin up the metrics pod, run the tests, then...I guess I'm mainly confused on where to find the results (I haven't used prometheus before either, which might be part of my confusion)
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<victorbjelkholm>
dgrisham: yeah, I don't fully remember, but if the dashboards after spinning up the pod doesn't include the data, you would have to add panels for that. Let me see if I can find the docs I got everything from
<pawn>
Blocks are not to be confused with blockchain blocks right?
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<sonata>
I'd like to be able to run a gateway accessible from other computers on the LAN, but my local address isn't necessarily stable.
<victorbjelkholm>
how about using mdns? like hostname.local Have not tried that myself but guessing it should work
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<demize>
pawn: Think filesystem blocks..
<crankylinuxuser>
If you're running inside of a NAT, you can bind a MAC address to a specific IP. That would take care of that problem.
<crankylinuxuser>
And if you use IPFS on the gateway, you can do a rewrite proxy that watches for https://ipfs.io/ip[f/n]s/ and rewrite it to http://local_ip/ip[f/n]s/hash
<noffle>
pawn: right. they're unrelated
<pawn>
How do I list all the locals files I have from IPFS?
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<pawn>
I'm playing around with the commands just to familiarize myself with them
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<crankylinuxuser>
pawn: ipfs pin ls --type=recursive/indirect/direct
<crankylinuxuser>
master hash has all linked hashes and directory tree. inside those are hashes that point towards chunks. each of those are hashed as well. indirect gets you all the linked content. For some reason, my pinned content is "recursive" rather than direct.
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<Mateon1>
Also, ipfs refs local - this also lists content that is not pinned
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<crankylinuxuser>
true. But I usually dont count on transient data. Pinned is usually where I care about stuff..
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<Mateon1>
Maybe I'm an exception, but I don't garbage collect content at all
<Mateon1>
I'm far from running out of disk space
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<whyrusleeping>
I want to make the files api more friendly so people use it for managing their content more
<crankylinuxuser>
Oh, indeed. But for new users, they probably aren't going to change the config away from 10GB for the garbage collection. At least, until they start poking around at the soft underbelly :)
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<pawn>
what's pin?
<crankylinuxuser>
Pin is similar to bittorrent "Seed". It locks the content on your IPFS node so the garbage collector doesnt get rid of it
<M-anomie>
crankylinuxuser: I set it to 10MB on my Android phone. ;)
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<m0ns00n>
Hey guys
<m0ns00n>
For those of you who have been following the FriendUP project - we're soon ready to start getting IPFS to work in Friend.
<M-anomie>
Is orbit-db queryable out of the box, or or should I convert to sqlite first or something?
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<emunand[m]>
i'm having trouble publishing something with a key for ipns
<emunand[m]>
it says that it can't find any peer in the table
<emunand[m]>
oh weird, just waiting made it work
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<whyrusleeping>
emunand[m]: that error generally means you don't have any peers connected
<whyrusleeping>
did you try publishing immediately after turning the daemon on?
<emunand[m]>
yeah, i had 4 peers when i tried at first
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<emunand[m]>
but i waited for a minute until i got at least 100 peers
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<fluff[m]>
Hey all, so I'm playing around with getting a subdomain pointing over to IPFS and I've completed all the steps (page comes up okay via curl) but have an SSL issue: http://ipfs.flufftronix.com any ideas? tld is on digitalocean and has SSL via letsencrypt, cloudflare is being used for DNS and doesn't have any SSL enabled.
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<fluff[m]>
oops, had to clear cache. all is well. yay ipfs
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<pawn>
`ipfs ls -v QmWNj1pTSjbauDHpdyg5HQ26vYcNWnubg1JehmwAE9NnU9` is showing me an error: Error: merkledag node was not a directory or shard
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<pawn>
M-anomie: That's pretty badass. I should switch to android.
<pawn>
How do I connect to peers?
<M-anomie>
Is there an official gx repo for ipfs?
<whyrusleeping>
unfortunately not yet
<whyrusleeping>
i really want to spend more time on things like that
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<fluff[m]>
Is it possible to pin an ipns entry?
<pawn>
So how does ipfs connect to peers initially? Which is the first peer?
<Mateon1>
pawn: It tries to connect to peers in `ipfs bootstrap` first
<Mateon1>
You can add your own
<pawn>
is this a file stored somewhere?
<pawn>
bootstrap*
<Mateon1>
fluff[m]: Not exactly, you can pin the hash that the ipns record points to, but after the TTL runs out, the ipns record dies
<Mateon1>
pawn: I think it's in either the leveldb or .ipfs/config, lemme check
<pawn>
Once it connects to a peer, does that peer tell my client about more peers to connect with?
<Mateon1>
Yep, $IPFS_PATH/config
<Mateon1>
pawn: Yep, you only need to connect to one peer to start discovering others
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<pawn>
So I have connections to peers, so I know their IP address? So it's not necessarily anonymous??
<Mateon1>
IPFS doesn't provide anonymity by default, TOR support is planned, and there exist branches which implement TOR routing
<pawn>
I see
<pawn>
If I want a file that I don't have yet locally, then must I connect to a peer that has the file or can I route my request for that file through my existing peers?
<fluff[m]>
@Mateon1 OK thanks, trying to clarify workflow for updating a site. I have ipfs running locally and also on a couple VPS's for better load speed. If I make changes to a whole directory (via Hugo) does that mean I'll have to re-pin my site's root folder on each VPS every update?
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<Mateon1>
fluff[m]: Pretty much, but there exist automated solutions. You can use ipfs-cluster, or just a naive cron job that pins whatever your ipns entry points to.
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<pawn>
Beaker is the only browser right now with native IPFS support?
<Mateon1>
I think so, haven't heard of any others
<pawn>
My goal is to do a talk about IPFS in San Diego, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can. Also, I have a side goal to create a browser specifically for IPFS for a demo for the talk (maybe). So, the quicker I can learn about the ins and outs of IPFS, then the better.
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<pawn>
There are some issues I have with beaker.. It's not really anything different from other browsers other than it supports a fs: URI protocol...
<Mateon1>
Well, I think all you need for a browser is to natively understand /ipfs/ /ipns/ links, and come with a bundled go-ipfs node. If you use electron, there exist(ed) packages that bundle go-ipfs and provide an API
<Mateon1>
Yeah, that's part of how IPFS wants to work, it wants to be as seamless for the end user as possible, as web developers switch to IPFS for their websites
<Mateon1>
So not surprising the browser isn't much different
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<M-anomie>
I think a good browser extension would be something better to aim for tbqh, more convenient.
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