<Mateon1>
noob_, Bat`O: By the way, the graphmd script is just a wrapper on top of `ipfs refs`, try: ipfs refs --format="<src> -> <dst> [name=<linkname>];" QmABCDEF... - that outputs the edges, so if you wrap it in a `echo "digraph { $(ipfs refs ...) }"` you get a proper graphviz graph
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<noob_>
I'm just putting down my understanding of IPFS so far . Please correct me for any of the mistakes . I can write a static webpage and deploy onto IPFS network using ipfs add. now anyone can use it and ipfs gateway takes care of the nearest location from which it has to pick the file. The peers have to have a ips client started on their machine.
<lemmi>
nope
<lemmi>
:)
<noob_>
Now If I'm building a web page with some videos and photos in it. And I want to share the link to somebody across the globe say Australlia, and I go and give the http link to ipfs.io to a friend there and (unfortunately) no body in australlia is peering at this momoent, it will be taking a long time to view the files since it has to come from my machine half way around the globe
<noob_>
am i right ?
<lemmi>
since there are public gateways, peers don't necessarily have to have an ipfs daemon or client started
<lemmi>
and sure, if the data only sits in one location and nowhere else, it can only come from there. but once someone
<lemmi>
else has the data and an ipfs daemon running, he can redistribute the data aswell
<lemmi>
if you want fast connections for australian users, you can alwas setup a vps near there and let a daemon pin your data
<noob_>
thanks for the clarification @lemmi.
<lemmi>
also, it's not really that helpful to keep thinking in terms of webpages. ipfs is just a peer 2 peer network, that can link data over it's hashes
<noob_>
So this ipfs cannot be used for client-server communication ? something like in the current web structure? should all the data stay onto the client's spot to work ?
<lemmi>
it's designed in a way to play well with usual filsystem strucures, but it's not limited to that
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<lemmi>
noob_: both is possible
<lemmi>
noob_: you don't need servers, they will however make things faster
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<SchrodingersScat>
noob_: afaik the ipfs.io gateways work like a regular webserver and you don't see any direct advantage of ipfs that way other than you can hypothetically add something to your own ipfs then call it on those machines.
<lemmi>
(because i'm assumung they have more bandwidth than your home connection)
<lemmi>
instead of asking a single ip for a webpage, you ask a whole network
<bitbit>
Hi! I've been think of making something like IPFS for a decade now :) glad to see this project exists
<bitbit>
thinking*
<SchrodingersScat>
bitbit: welcome
<lemmi>
noob_: so the networking part is more related to that of bittorrent than to your usual www
<bitbit>
SchrodingersScat: Thanks
<bitbit>
I strongly believe this sort of thing is the future. The question is, how can I contribute? and how do I invest? with Filecoin?
<SchrodingersScat>
idk where filecoin is in progress :/ whyrusleeping likes to prestore all the data
<SchrodingersScat>
bitbit: the github probably needs help
<noob_>
Say for example i would like to recieve a file in north pole and will ipfs gateway broadcast the file to the nearest swarm/peer near the users's location?
<noob_>
or should i explicitly have to have it pinned there ?
<lemmi>
noob_: the moment you use a gateway, you are not really using ipfs anymore
<lemmi>
oh, i'm assuming you mean an extern gateway, like ipfs.io
<noob_>
yes.
<SchrodingersScat>
noob_: if the person sets an ipfs node at the north pole and calls your page through it, then it'll be cached there for some time until they garbage collect. It would contact your ipfs node for the data and make the transfer.
<SchrodingersScat>
noob_: if they call it through ipfs.io, then whichever ipfs.io machine they contact will download the file through you and cache it for some time, serving it to them. Not necessarily the most efficient.
<noob_>
setting up ipfs node = ipfs daemon right ?
<lemmi>
yes
<SchrodingersScat>
although with network overhead it may very well be more efficient than running a node :^)
<lemmi>
not if you have a hundred people on the north pole all wanting the same file over a crappy link
<SchrodingersScat>
^ sure
<lemmi>
also if you just want to watch a movie multiple times. you don't even need a link after the first time anymore
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<noob_>
Is there a way to broadcast a file in the ipfs gateway to its peers ?
<noob_>
so that they could hold a copy of it
<SchrodingersScat>
noob_: you can 'pin' whatever you like on nodes you control. pinning pulls the resources to the local machine and marks them to be saved.
<lemmi>
noob_: the moment you step through a gateway, you are out of ipfs
<lemmi>
it's very job is to be compatible with the current web
<bitbit>
SchrodingersScat: Looking at the js-ipfs github where I might be able to help. Is there someone I can chat with that can help me navigate the code while I get familiarized?
<SchrodingersScat>
bitbit: conversations about that pop up here from time to time, so I suppose simply ask whenever you have a question and hopefully someone that works with the js-ipfs will wake up
<bitbit>
SchrodingersScat: I never worked in an open source project so I'm just guessing based on my work experience :)
<bitbit>
how it goes*
<SchrodingersScat>
really neither have I D:
<noob_>
Yes lemmi, sorry I understand that. Gateway i was talking about ipfs.io, and SchrodingersScat: so everytime I want to pin sometime on to my node in the north pole, I'll have to ssh the node and run the pin there? Or a ipfs pin in my daemon should mark the file to be pinned and will be pinned onto all the peers ?
<bitbit>
And theres no active cryptocoin that I can invest in?
<lemmi>
noob_: there is ipfs-cluster, that can coordinate pinning over several machines. you can also just run a cron job at the north pole that frequently pins an ipns link you own
<bitbit>
at the moment
<SchrodingersScat>
noob_: as far as I know there's no defined way to pin across multiple machines. There's the 'pinbot', like the one here that can pin things across 8 or so machines. I have a short script that uses ssh like you mention to loop though the pinned resources of one machine, pinning them to another
<SchrodingersScat>
noob_: oh, k, ipfs-cluster
<lemmi>
it's wip though
<SchrodingersScat>
bitbit: there's #filecoin , idk how far along they are.
<bitbit>
SchrodingersScat: oh thanks. I'm not sure I understand the relation between filecoin and ipfs
<lemmi>
bitbit: filecoin is not yet a thing
<lemmi>
bitbit: but it's supposed to allow you to store files on other people machines and pay them with filecoins
<noob_>
thanks lemmi, SchrodingersScat I have a some idea on how ipfs can be used.
<noob_>
Appriciate your patience to this nood ;)
<noob_>
noob*
<lemmi>
just set up a few machine an toy around with it
<SchrodingersScat>
noob_: yep, no worries. also ^
<lemmi>
at least, that's how i learned
<lemmi>
then there few youtube videos
<SchrodingersScat>
hands on definitely helped me think about it
<noob_>
are there any applications out there built on ipfs that i can play with ?
<bitbit>
lemmi: you know, I heard of ether before it was a thing too... now I regret not having my ear to the ground about when it began being sold. What is a good way to get updates about that?
<Mateon1>
noob_: There exist a few apps that use IPFS for decentralization, examples are http://orbit.chat (or /ipns/orbit.chat), http://static.network (not on IPFS, but uses js-ipfs to be fully decentralized after first load), and more. Look at https://github.com/ipfs/awesome-ipfs for more things
<pinkieval>
that's pretty much all I could find about it
<bitbit>
pinkieval: Thank you
<bitbit>
Is there an easy guide out there to set up an app on ipfs that me and my coworkers can share locally? I tried orbit.chat bot it just says 'loading' after I entered a username
<bitbit>
on how to set up*
<bitbit>
but*
<noob_>
bitbit: even i had the same issue.
<noob_>
thought it was wip and kept mum
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<bitbit>
noob_: what is mum?
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<SchrodingersScat>
bitbit: a thing you don't say, mum's the word
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<Kubuxu>
pinkieval, bitbit: that construction of Filecoin is 3 years old. A lot has changed since that time. There will be some news some time in future.
<pinkieval>
Kubuxu: cool
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<ruunyan>
does ipfs, either by default or upon correct configuration, cache things you've downloaded for either a certain amount of time or up to a certain maximum cache size or something along those lines?
<ruunyan>
(that is, without explicit pinning)
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<pinkieval>
ruunyan: yes
<ruunyan>
pinkieval: is that by default?
<pinkieval>
yes
<ruunyan>
neat
<SchrodingersScat>
pinkieval: is it? I thought you had to run --enable-gc
<pinkieval>
SchrodingersScat: I ran ipfs add on node1, ipfs cat on node2, disconnected node1
<pinkieval>
ipfs cat still works
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<SchrodingersScat>
pinkieval: right, the caching is by default. but I thought you had to use ipfs daemon --enable-gc to have any kind of auto garbage collect? of course you can run ipfs repo gc
<SchrodingersScat>
ruunyan: iirc there is a setting though, it's like 10G by default
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<Kubuxu>
SchrodingersScat: thanks for all the support you are providing in this channel
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<SchrodingersScat>
Kubuxu: welcome, hopefully if I state anything wrong then two people will learn something :^)
<Kubuxu>
:P
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<sriku>
Hi - I have a question regarding diagnosing a slow transfer problem with the go-ipfs client.
<SchrodingersScat>
sriku: indeed, quite.
<sriku>
I'm using it in "private network" mode - i.e. with a private swarm key, but I expected that to speed it up.
<SchrodingersScat>
oh my
<sriku>
A directory I added with 4099 files totalling to 23MB or so, takes several minutes to transfer between two docker containers running the ipfs daemon on the same machine.
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<Mateon1>
sriku: In private network mode, I believe there is another layer of encryption that happens, using the pre shared key. I'm not sure how much that slows the transfer down
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<bitbit>
whyrusleeping: :D
<bitbit>
whyrusleeping: I've been reading the guide about how to set up ipfs. How production ready is it?
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<libman>
bitbit: that depends on what you're trying to do. I look at IPFS as a second fall-back protocol to be used along-side HTTP, and for that it's ready. As for replacing HTTP completely: not until it's directly supported by all major Web browsers.
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<Anchakor>
my no. 1 concern with IPFS is the traffic usage overhead
<Anchakor>
to have to handle ~5GB of traffic daily just to serve couple of my webpages is not feasible
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<bitbit>
Anchakor: why 5GB? Isn't the point that it's distrbuted?
<Anchakor>
that's what I read was idle network traffic usage per day
<lemmi>
Anchakor: ony if you are running a full dht node
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<Anchakor>
would be good if the routing system was modular, allowing it to be switched out for different implementations (other than DHT), some making routing slower, but less chatty
<Anchakor>
nice, would be good topic for masters/bc thesis to suggest :)
<lemmi>
Anchakor: what do you mean?
<Anchakor>
to develop an alternative to the IPFS DHT module, which was more flexible for different types of users
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<xelra>
I had the same problem. With full DHT routing, ipfs wouldn't work properly on my 200/4 line. Just the announcements of the things I would download would saturate my upload and in turn limit the download again.
<xelra>
But with dhtclient it works, kinda.
<lemmi>
and then there is the --local option, which surpresses the announcements
<voker57>
5gb isn't really much for supporting the network and I believe it won't scale if you pin more data
<Anchakor>
I wonder how much of that 5GB is the DHT and the rest
<lemmi>
what rest?
<voker57>
probably 99.9% dht
<Anchakor>
lemmi: that's what I was going to ask next :)
<voker57>
rest=bitswap?
<Anchakor>
is there some rest? what is "swarm" and "bitswap"
<voker57>
iirc swarm is DHT (block/key discovery) and bitswap is actual block transfer
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<voker57>
today I had 3.6G total traffic and 600m bitswap
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<lemmi>
as long as you are just sitting there with not much pinned, there will mainly be dht traffic
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<Anchakor>
searching "ipfs swarm" gets me mostly ethereum swarm articles
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<voker57>
swarm=dht
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