<Noxarivis[m]>
You know what the [m] stands for aceluck ?
<aceluck>
Nope
<Noxarivis[m]>
Take a gooood guess
<aceluck>
Matrix? :)
<Noxarivis[m]>
You are a genius
<Noxarivis[m]>
!aceluck botsnack
<Noxarivis[m]>
aceluck: here is no good ipfs room except this
<aceluck>
Care to share how I'd get my own [m]? I just recently found out about matrix
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<Noxarivis[m]>
aceluck: also I thought of something that uses ipfs
<Noxarivis[m]>
aceluck: matrix is years old dude.... You are really late
<aceluck>
Noxarivis[m]: I'm even older.. .jabber...
<Noxarivis[m]>
I can't parse that sentence
<aceluck>
Never mind. Jabber is old tech. I want to matrix
<Noxarivis[m]>
aceluck: I want something based on ipfs
<aceluck>
I think ipfs has pub/sub , but it's still in development, and not necessarily ready to compete yet
<Noxarivis[m]>
aceluck: I'm on Android only right now
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<Noxarivis[m]>
aceluck: expect the matrix network to break down alot
<Kythyria[m]>
It's not that unstable!
<Noxarivis[m]>
kythyria: here it is
<Noxarivis[m]>
It's ok
<Noxarivis[m]>
But I wish I could rely more on it
<Noxarivis[m]>
Also riot is buggy af
<aceluck>
Doesn't it depend much on which server you connect to? I'm still trying to grok how it works
<Noxarivis[m]>
I wait for a proper solution
<Noxarivis[m]>
Matrix right now is the best I found, but I think it's still shitty
<aceluck>
Might be possible to build something that uses the matrix api, but ipfs as the backend
<Noxarivis[m]>
There is no perfect chat solution yet
<aceluck>
That way you could leverage existing matrix client
<Noxarivis[m]>
I theorised about porting matrix to ipfs pupsub
<Noxarivis[m]>
That would be nice
<Kythyria[m]>
I've never worked out a really kickass compression for matrix-over-websocket. Like, given the schema describing the C2S API, generate an encoder and decoder that make it really tiny so long as you stay in the schema.
<aceluck>
And? Any showstoppers to doing that?
<Noxarivis[m]>
aceluck: can parse meaning out of your words , please try again
<Noxarivis[m]>
*cant
<Kythyria[m]>
Noxarivis: "Are there any insurmountable obstacles to porting matrix to run on IPFS pubsub?"
<Noxarivis[m]>
I don't know
<aceluck>
Noxarivis[m]: You said you theorized porting matrix to ipfs pubsub. I was just wondering if you found any showstoppers
<Noxarivis[m]>
I don't have the tools to try that
<aceluck>
Noxarivis[m]: Any technical reasons why it couldn't be done
<Noxarivis[m]>
What is "showstoppers
<Noxarivis[m]>
aceluck: I don't own a PC
<Noxarivis[m]>
That technical reason enough
<aceluck>
Noxarivis[m]: Showstoppers, as in theoretical limitations in the tech of ipfs or pubsub or matrix
<Kythyria[m]>
"showstopper" is where you can't proceed without fixing it.
<Kythyria[m]>
(usually, "showstopper bug", one so dreadful you can't ship until it's fixed)
<Noxarivis[m]>
kythyria: thanks for translating
<aceluck>
Noxarivis[m]: Fair enough that you can't do it yourself, but others might
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<Noxarivis[m]>
Theoretically it should be possible to make some kind of software that utilize IPFS/pubSub to use matrix and even connect with the current network....
<Noxarivis[m]>
An P2P net and an s2s net fused together should be enough to make a good chat/social net
<Noxarivis[m]>
*"s2s" my short for server to server
<aceluck>
Interesting thought. I'll look into it and see what I can come up with
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<Noxarivis[m]>
Nice
<Noxarivis[m]>
Ping me anytime or
<aceluck>
Noxarivis[m]: Would be nice if you put up some thoughts somewhere on what would go into your "perfect" messaging solution
<aboodman>
Noxarivis[m]: ^ +1
<Noxarivis[m]>
aceluck: I make a list
<aceluck>
Until then I'm gonna look into building something that could utilize ipfs as backend for matrix clients
<machsleep>
kpcyrd: Looking to integrate ethereum smart contracts with ipfs. I want to limit the state stored on the block chain... I was thinking I would do this from web3.js console.. but somehow this seems hokey.. Would rather have the state updates sent directly from the contract. Any decent patterns exist for smart contracts with potentially large states?
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<aboodman>
machsleep: i do not think it is possible to talk directly to ipfs from a contract. there has to be an intermediary.
<aboodman>
a service which monitors the blockchain and writes to ipfs, or vice versa.
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<voxelot>
machsleep: having a contract store state in ipfs assumes that a miner already calculated the state, check out state channels as a way of doing eth state off chain
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<r0kk3rz>
isnt that more or less what swarm is for?
<r0kk3rz>
being an ethereum project i imagine you can do things like that
<Stskeeps>
swarm and EVM doesn't interact afaik
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<machsleep>
Do we need to implement our own State Channel, or are there available, tested, solutions?
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<daviddias>
Hi all! IPFS Monday all hands starts roughly in a hour, make sure to check https://github.com/ipfs/pm/issues/472 if you are looking to attend. See you there!
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<sprint-helper2>
The next event "IPFS All Hands Call" is in 15 minutes.
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<flyingzumwalt>
All Hands call starts in about 10 minutes.
<flyingzumwalt>
davidias do we have any demos lined up for today?
<flyingzumwalt>
daviddias ^
<hermanjunge>
flyingzumwalt Today is IPLD-ETH demo with kumavis
<hermanjunge>
Also, off topic. I tried to use some docker-fu to compile my plugin on top of a golang:1.8.3 machine, and then compile ipfs there, to test plugins (they won't work in darwin for now), and I couldn't figure out why `make install` of IPFS got stuck on the gx post-install hook of gogo-protobuf. Any insight on that one lgierth ?
<hermanjunge>
Switching to a good ole virtualbox for now
<Kubuxu>
hermanjunge: it probably didn't get stuck, gogo-protobuf is huge and might take a while
<hermanjunge>
good insight. So maybe I should give more resources to docker there.
<lgierth>
hermanjunge: yeah gogo-protobuf is the largest dep by far
<hermanjunge>
Good to know. Last night I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong.
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<flyingzumwalt>
daviddias the video will probably take about 10 minutes to render
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<Kubuxu>
like we can reduce it by about 70% but: new version is incompatible for us, 2. it is everywhere so updating it is huge pain
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<aseriousgogetta>
any dev team members active?
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<Kubuxu>
hmm?
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<VoR0220>
Hello everyone!
<VoR0220>
I have a question about the capabilities of IPFS and how might someone go about making this come to life. Suppose that I have something akin to Google Docs
<VoR0220>
And that I wanted to keep track of the file in IPFS while also constantly writing to it and updating it in a decentralized manner. How might one go about doing this?
<VoR0220>
Particularly if there are multiple sources of input.
<aseriousgogetta>
VoR0220: good question. the file would have to be added after every edit in my mind, not sure how that would work
<aseriousgogetta>
=/
<aseriousgogetta>
im searching for an admin with answers myself. :P
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<Kubuxu>
you don't need "admin" to answer you
<aseriousgogetta>
nah, just someone knowledgable
<Kubuxu>
you can as in this channel instead of PM
<aseriousgogetta>
;)
<VoR0220>
yea I would think that would be the case, but I've heard that IPFS can do video streaming, so if it can do that, I would imagine it would be capable of doing this.
<aseriousgogetta>
alright Kubuxu
<aseriousgogetta>
VoR0220: it can do video streaming, but a video doesnt get changed..
<aseriousgogetta>
it stays the same.
<VoR0220>
how does it do video streaming exactly?
<aseriousgogetta>
i was wondering about how one implements libp2p on it's own
<VoR0220>
Is it just pointing at one static video file?
<aseriousgogetta>
VoR0220: exactly
<VoR0220>
got it.
<aseriousgogetta>
well, a hash
<aseriousgogetta>
but same thing basically.
<VoR0220>
yea and the hash points to peers that have the file and are sharing
<aseriousgogetta>
the hash of the video file
<aseriousgogetta>
right
<aseriousgogetta>
you got it
<Kubuxu>
VoR0220: there are tricks you can do, it could work, but as far as streaming is concerned something directly P2P like WebRTC or libp2p on WebRTC might be better
<aseriousgogetta>
anyone here use firechat or heard of meshkit sdk?
<VoR0220>
cool. But yea I'm working on a package manager for Ethereum ATM and this is something that's been boggling my mind right now would be how do I keep track of every potential deployment of a smart contract on a different blockchain and keep that in the package description
<aseriousgogetta>
VoR0220: so your working on cross chain tech too? let's chat man.
<VoR0220>
the best way I can think of would be to point it to an ever written on top of file.
<VoR0220>
I'm just trying to make Solidity work on Enterprise stuff atm...free time and what have you. Big fan of Cosmos here.
<aseriousgogetta>
but that is not the project im working on, just something very similiar
<aseriousgogetta>
with almost the same implementation
<aseriousgogetta>
but i also included ipfs
<aseriousgogetta>
;)
<VoR0220>
got it. Looks like a lightning network implementation of some kind on face value.
<VoR0220>
but made in a way format for other asset classes.
<aseriousgogetta>
well, my build is different then theirs
<aseriousgogetta>
and we are releasing before them i believe
<aseriousgogetta>
but much the same idea
<aseriousgogetta>
a cross chain protocol
<VoR0220>
anyways, I guess this might be the better question. I've heard that IPFS can work with blockchains built into the protocol. What does that mean exactly?
<VoR0220>
Like how would you maintain the ledger via the IPFS protocol?
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<aseriousgogetta>
that's what im questioning, how i build ipfs into my package, i was going to just leave ipfs as a standalone component that i can utilize, with a private ipfs swarm ofc;
<aseriousgogetta>
the ledger is maintained in another fashion, thru the framework
<aseriousgogetta>
;)
<aseriousgogetta>
im almost done
<aseriousgogetta>
revising whitepaper
<aseriousgogetta>
What we end up with, are cryptographically-secured instant payments off-blockchain that can
<aseriousgogetta>
even be transferred from one asset to another via hashed time-lock contracts
<VoR0220>
sounds like what Bitcoin is trying (and failing) to do. But cross chain.
<aseriousgogetta>
interesting. same concepts. ima have a better look.
<VoR0220>
my personal favorite to win out of the two is cosmos. Because the design is far simpler.
<VoR0220>
You seem to know a lot though about IPFS. Can anyone tell me how IPNS works exactly? I'm getting an idea for how I could do my "Google Doc" replication experiment but I think it's going to have to rely on IPNS and timestamp mechanisms. But I need to make sure I have a decent understanding of IPNS before proceeding.
<aseriousgogetta>
yeah, im still reading over IPLD and libp2p
<VoR0220>
This might be just what I'm looking for but the information appears to be sparse.
<VoR0220>
Where's the glorious dev team when you need them :P
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<VoR0220>
but yes, whenever anyone gets to it, would love to hear a better description of what IPLD is.
<VoR0220>
I think I can infer a lot from the name, but I would like to hear what the ideas are about how to do it.
<chip[m]>
VoR0220: there's a tutorial on the ipfs YouTube that may help you get started: https://youtu.be/-kdx8rJd8rQ
<VoR0220>
PERFECT!
<VoR0220>
Thank you so much chip[m]
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<VoR0220>
Now I wonder how I would do this in golang....
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<moshisushi>
daviddias: (re performance of js-ipfs in the browser) I ran the same code now in Google Chrome vs node v8.1.4. The test is downloading a 4.1M file from my wss (go-ipfs) node. ~10 times slower in Chrome vs node (often > 30s in the browser) :S The browser test is here: https://soundclart.com/testipfs.html
<flyingzumwalt>
VoR0220 did you read the ipld website? https://ipld.io
<aseriousgogetta>
good videos on their too, i like how wanderer explains things
<moshisushi>
daviddias: just fyi :) not expecting any debugging. The amount of CPU time Chrome seems to spend in the native Unit8Array constructor is insane though
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<VoR0220>
so hypothetically IPLD could have Swarm implemented over the top of it?
<VoR0220>
this is very intriguing.
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<aseriousgogetta>
Tendermint Core’s BFT consensus algorithm is well suited for scaling public proof-of-stake blockchains. --> hmm..
<aseriousgogetta>
an inter-blockchain communication (IBC) protocol, a kind of virtual UDP or TCP for blockchains. -- COMIT.network calls theirs a "CRP" Cross-chain Routing Protocol
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<VoR0220>
yea it's basically a sharded blockchain made to work with numerous proof of stake chains. IBC isn't really a protocol...it's more like a concept like object oriented programming. You make more pegs/zones that specify how to interact with other blockchains.
<VoR0220>
It's sidechains on sidechains on sidechains :P
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<aseriousgogetta>
VoR0220: preachin to the choir
<aseriousgogetta>
;)
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<ChrisMatthieu>
@daviddias I think that I have a WebRTC question for you. JS-IPFS pubsub works great between 2 browsers on the same computer but not between node apps. Is this due to WebRTC only being available in browser? If so, is there a way to use a different transport in js-ipfs via nodejs?
<ChrisMatthieu>
I am ultimately interested in nodejs apps on different computers communicating via JS-IPFS and pubsub
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<ChrisMatthieu>
they don't seem to see each other via pubsub
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<VoR0220>
whyrusleeping: Thanks! :D
<aseriousgogetta>
whyrusleeping: thnx for that tutorial.
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<aseriousgogetta>
shit, so i need to update is the first thing your tutorial tells me
<aseriousgogetta>
:P
<aseriousgogetta>
0.4.11-dev
<aseriousgogetta>
update to at least ipfs 0.4.5.
<aseriousgogetta>
how was i using such an old build?!
<aseriousgogetta>
feed me moar about ipos
<aseriousgogetta>
and implementing libp2p protocols independently
<aseriousgogetta>
plz&ty
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<whyrusleeping>
aseriousgogetta: i'm always happy to write tutorials/examples if people have specific things they want to see. Though i likely won't have time to do so this week
<daviddias>
ChrisMatthieu: you have to set up WebRTC in Node.js, which unfortunately only has unstable implementations, namely wrtc and electron-webrtc. It is usable, but you might experience some seg faults. See how to do it in the js-ipfs readme: https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfs#cli
<daviddias>
ChrisMatthieu: once we get the DHT in, Node.js nodes will find each other and use TCP just fine
<daviddias>
moshisushi: btw, would you mind opening a issue and tracking all of those experiments and benchmarks? wanna make sure we don't loose any valuable finding :)
<ChrisMatthieu>
@daviddias Thanks for the explanation. I think that's the main issue. NodeJS nodes can find each other to interact via pubsub. I saw that there is an experimental DHT feature. Do you think that this would help me out in the mean time?
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<ChrisMatthieu>
^ *can't find each other*
<ChrisMatthieu>
hmm, just tested dht with js-ipfs and get the following error: AssertionError: FloodSub is not started. Perhaps it's just a tad bit early. Would I have better luck with go-ipfs daemon running and using the js-ipfs-api to interact with it via node? /cc @daviddias
<ChrisMatthieu>
Ah, I see the example code you shared earlier. I'll try that tonight...
<moshisushi>
daviddias: ah yeah Chrome is doing all kinds of strange stuff to save CPU cycles when a tab is not in focus... I've had problem with events not firing until you open the tab (which might make sense for visual stuff, but not so much for audio :))
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<moshisushi>
daviddias: Firefox actually performs worse for me. The profile looks similar though (i.e buffer allocs being heavy)
<moshisushi>
and yeah I should track this stuff in an issue instead of spamming IRC :)
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