<karlp>
it's almost like it doesn't really have anything to do with the cpu...
<vagrantc>
basically really old boards may not work multiplatform, but anything basically not ancient does
* vagrantc
over-basicallies
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<willmore>
vagrantc, nintendo-ds?
<willmore>
Nope, no MMU, so probably not :)
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<MoeIcenowy>
willmore: Nintendo 3DS is v6 and has MMU ;-)
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<wens>
lvrp16: distro kernels build upon multi_*_defconfig (at least I think that's the case for Debian)
<wens>
vagrantc: ^
<lvrp16>
wens: maybe i can unify the tritium images with other armv7 boards then
<lvrp16>
rk3229 maybe?
<vagrantc>
debian does a much more modular kernel than the multi_v7_defconfig, but though i do sometimes look at changes to the multi_v7_defconfig looking for new options to enable
<willmore>
MoeIcenowy, owww, is it possible to run native code? ;)
<vagrantc>
modular in the sense of more things as modules (=m) than as built-ins (=y)
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<wens>
lvrp16: there's still the issue of the bootloader
<lvrp16>
shove it on spi nor and forget about it...
<wens>
lol
<wens>
vagrantc: did you get that to work on c201? I pretty much gave up on that and just build kernels myself :/
<wens>
vagrantc: that and I think coreboot (or whatever bootloader chromebooks use) has issues with kernels or initramfs > 16 MB (or 32)
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<vagrantc>
wens: i haven't gotten a modular config working on the c201 ... but i've got a kernel building with Guix that mostly works and might get accpted into Guix.
<vagrantc>
yeah, coreboot+depthcharge ... i saw the 16MB limit problem as well
<vagrantc>
not sure if newer versions still have that limitation or not ... the newer ones i had didn't support initrd at all
<vagrantc>
hanetzer got a u-boot build for c201 into mainline u-boot, but for whatever reason, it doesn't output video on mine.
<vagrantc>
and haven't had luck with booting blindly...
<hanetzer>
vagrantc: yeah. it did go kerplutz after some stuff went funky
<hanetzer>
erm, not funky, but changes.
<hanetzer>
there's some pending patch that needs work that will fix the changes.
<vagrantc>
i guess i'll try again after that
<vagrantc>
wens: u-boot ought to fix in 16MB for the forseeable future :)
<vagrantc>
hanetzer: i think i'll stick to loading u-boot from depthcharge next time i try it for a while...
<vagrantc>
i've got a flashing process that works ... but it's a pain.
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<vagrantc>
oh wait, we diverged into talking about rockchip platforms in #linux-sunxi
* vagrantc
is shocked
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<karlp>
bit surprising that matainer is like, "wut?"
<KotCzarny>
more like, where's the linux api for that
<KotCzarny>
:)
<karlp>
yeah, but it's been a shitshow for what, 15years?
<KotCzarny>
yay for shitshows
<tuxd3v>
lol
<karlp>
just bikeshedding IMO. "everybody thinks they know what a gpio is"
<karlp>
and anybody who actually needs to _use_ them ends up having to off the reservation
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<mru>
in many cases, the proper thing is to write a kernel driver for whatever you're doing
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<karlp>
that's the response of people who write kernel modules on a regualr basis, yes.
<mru>
I'm guilty of that
<karlp>
it's generally regarded as horrific by people who just want to run an application that uses hardware without having to rebuild modules for everyone all the time.
<mru>
the best solution depends on the problem
<karlp>
yes yes, but gpios have been a horror show for years.
<mru>
only when abused from userspace
<karlp>
ohkay, let's just leave it there then :)
<KotCzarny>
isnt setting gpio a one time operation after boot?
<KotCzarny>
why such simple thing cant be done right?
<tuxd3v>
my undertsnading is that its not so simply..
<tuxd3v>
id depends on the hardware
<KotCzarny>
driver is one thing, in-kernel-api would be another
<tuxd3v>
it depends on the Board circuitry implementer
<KotCzarny>
because kernel IS the interface between hardware and userspace anyway
<tuxd3v>
that is the problem
<tuxd3v>
the hardware is so vast
<KotCzarny>
my question is about kernel middleware being too simple to do that
<tuxd3v>
then add to it each board vendor implementing it on its way
<tuxd3v>
crazyy hugh?
<KotCzarny>
and when you enable device specific driver, it knows what and how to export info
<tuxd3v>
now find a driver that mix all this for all boards/cpus availlable
<KotCzarny>
we have bazilion of pata/sata drivers, no?
<KotCzarny>
same for audio
<tuxd3v>
sata ios a standard
<KotCzarny>
gpio is just another subsystem that can be unified under kernel api
<tuxd3v>
gpio is not
<KotCzarny>
if sata is a standard, why we have sata_mv etc?
<tuxd3v>
that's why each vendor implements gpio on each own way
<KotCzarny>
gpio has to do few simple things
<tuxd3v>
lool
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<tuxd3v>
becasue of hardware diferences between products
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<tuxd3v>
and because of hardcoded circuitry which is made diferently in almost all boars
<mru>
hardware varies vastly in what gpio capabilities it provides and how it is organised
<tuxd3v>
how does you want to code one driver to fit them all?
<KotCzarny>
kernel already groups it by controller ignoring any internals, no?
<mru>
the kernel does a decent job of abstracting the intricacies and providing a single interface for controlling the available pin functions
<KotCzarny>
mru, you can set pin to input or output, but can you toggle pullup/down too?
<mru>
in the kernel, yes
<mru>
from userspace, no
<tuxd3v>
The unique way, I see out of it, is each vendor for each board specifies a device tree for GPIO
<tuxd3v>
but even then
<tuxd3v>
each CPU has diferent GPIO features,
<karlp>
then we have gpios attached to other devices :)
<karlp>
hooray!
<mru>
I'm inclined to add external pull-up/down resistors anyway
<mru>
sometimes the on-chip ones are too weak
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<tuxd3v>
karlp: that is yet another problem
<tuxd3v>
heheh
<willmore>
linkmauve, thanks!
<willmore>
karlp, I've run uclinux on a ds. :) I get that. :)
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<DuClare>
Hmm is there anything to make disassembling & figuring out boot0 easier than objdump -D -b binary -marm?
<DuClare>
[
<mru>
well, ida/hexrays if you have it
<DuClare>
Nope, unfortunately..
<ElBarto>
radare2
<ElBarto>
or ghidra (the new one from NSA) if it supports arm
<mru>
retdec
<DuClare>
I wonder what's the right setting for adjust-vma
<DuClare>
Looking at the chip's datasheet, there's SRAM A1 (starting at 0x0) and SRAM C (starting at 0x4000)
<DuClare>
Any idea where boot0 would be loaded into?
<DuClare>
Not that I know if it really makes any difference though
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<MoeIcenowy>
DuClare: SRAM A1
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<fALSO>
Linux orangepipc 5.1.0-rc2 #1 SMP Fri Mar 29 05:24:50 WET 2019 armv7l GNU/Linux
<Mangy_Dog>
your question allocation has been taken up
<DonkeyHotei>
:D
<pcbBob_>
I recently found out about Allwinner SoCs. I am not an electrical engineer, I am studying computer science at the moment with a strong personal interest in PCB design and making circuits with some kind of processors involved. I did some simple 2-Layer boards with 8-Bit controllers in the past. I am happy with it but I want to go the next step and design something with a "real" CPU and connection to SDRAM & Flash.
<ashleyk_>
good question
<DonkeyHotei>
it's a statement :P
<pcbBob_>
I neither have the equipment nor the money to solder / route BGA components. I read about the A13 which comes in a TQFP package - but it needs DDR2 RAM (I think?) and that's only available in cheap as BGA. So I kept on searching around until I read about the F-Series CPUs, which are quite old. They are based in ARM5 and ARM7. But I thought that going with something older is probably easier to get into designing a more complex P
<pcbBob_>
I then read on the linux-sunxi page that those CPUs are not supported because there are not enough people interested in them. But then I found this article: https://lore.kernel.org/patchwork/patch/877044/
<pcbBob_>
I find it really strange that such old CPUs get supported after more than 10 years! But this gave me hope to continue my "journey" for a datasheet / reference manual with a bit more information than just pinout descriptions (as described here: http://dl.linux-sunxi.org/F1C100/Allwinner_F1C100_datasheet_20110331.pdf)
<pcbBob_>
I thought "Well, there must be more information out there if one could adapt the linux kernel to this specific processor series, it is not possible to write a linux kernel with 30 pages of documentation"
<pcbBob_>
Here I am asking if anyone has more information about the F-Series chips? Being more specific: the "F1C100A" which is available as 128-TQFP on aliexpress for 2$. It supports slow and old (perfect for me) SDR-RAM and also has enough other peripherals on board (such as SPI, I²C, UART) and also enough GPIOs left to drive simple parallel displays
<pcbBob_>
So yea :D
<pcbBob_>
that's it
<DonkeyHotei>
one of the problems you would face is that you would need to get the chips made again
<pcbBob_>
@DonkeyHotei I don't need a reliable source of those chips - I basically just want to get one or two demo boards running for personal amusement
<pcbBob_>
They are still available at aliexpress, so...they are still out there :)
<DonkeyHotei>
hmm
<pcbBob_>
The main reason why I want to work with them is their more simple RAM interface, as I said they support SDR-SDRAM which is available in TSSOP package
<pcbBob_>
Maybe if no one has any documentation you could at least help me to figure out how to search through the linux sources and find the specific parts of the source code which are responsible for the F-Series processors
<pcbBob_>
Why would Allwinner give any documentation to the open-source linux team but not to the rest of the world? I don't get it.
<[TheBug]>
pcbBob_: I would say if your serious you should idle around and see if maybe someone here could inquire for you for them or has them, but since a lot of people are in different time zones in different places, you probably will not get the answer your looking for immediately.
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<pcbBob_>
TheBug I don't mind not getting my answer the moment I ask my question. I will look around from time to time and ask the same question again :). I hope it doesn't bother anyone. There are only 5 page of google results for "F1C100A" and I clicked on every single link
<pcbBob_>
If it helps I could also buy a few of those chips and ship it to anyone living in (central) europe if that helps.
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<pcbBob>
this is k
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