jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <http://cliki.net/> <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.5.4, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<Josh_2> mornin'
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<fiddlerwoaroof> mornin' beach
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<beach> fiddlerwoaroof: Hey. Sorry about the obsolete instructions in the README.
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<fiddlerwoaroof> no problem, I did eventually manage to get the boot inspector to work
<beach> Oh, good.
<beach> In the past, I imported lots of stuff from the host, so a REPL was reasonable in that it had most of the Common Lisp standard stuff in the environment.
<beach> Now I am more restrictive with imports.
<beach> The plan is to load plenty of native SICL stuff into the last environment.
<beach> But I haven't finished that work yet.
<fiddlerwoaroof> Makes sense
<beach> In particular, since those instructions were written, I decided to incorporate the compiler in the initial executable, so the last environment needs to contain the compiler, which is a big step.
<beach> In the past, I had the compiler code executed by the host.
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<beach> And the reason for that decision was that I decided to use a printed version of the AST as the FASL format.
<beach> It is safer than binary code, and it is independent of the backend.
<beach> So there are lots of advantages.
<fiddlerwoaroof> Cool, I've been pretty busy recently, so I haven't written all that much CL lately
<fiddlerwoaroof> I've been picking up my code for using the Mac's UI toolkit from CL to hopefully get it to the point where I can create a McCLIM backend
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<beach> Sounds great!
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<fiddlerwoaroof> I also came up with this little modification to the pprint dispatch table to make the printed representation of hash-tables more useful: https://fwoar.co/pastebin/95a292289ca0477ac0d29e070165c82222dd5ddc.lisp.html
<beach> Looks useful.
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<beach> Nice. Why do you not use PRINT-UNREADABLE-OBJECT?
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<fiddlerwoaroof> I probably should, it was something I put together quickly that's proved to be useful
<beach> OK.
<loke> Do you really want to have PRINT show the entire content of a hash table by default?
<loke> Perhaps abbreviate the content uless *PRINT-READBLY* is set?
<fiddlerwoaroof> Yeah, that (or just paying attention to *print-length*/*print-level*) would be a good idea
<fiddlerwoaroof> It's a bit mitigated by the fact that this only applies when *print-pretty* is T (in LW, at least)
<fiddlerwoaroof> I originally put it together for formatting the results of org-mode code blocks
<fiddlerwoaroof> And I've been copying it into new projects and tweaking it to be more featureful
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<lxbarbosa> new game in lisp: https://github.com/srcnalt/moppu
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<thijso> I've been adapting my ECL foray into Android apps into a generic template-ish github repo. If people are interested (still very much WIP, although it works for me): https://github.com/thijs/android-ecl-bootstrapI've been adapting my ECL foray into Android apps into a generic template-ish github repo. If people are interested (still very much WIP, although it works for me):
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<thijso> Uhm, oops... double paste... my bad
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<thijso> Anyway, comments welcome...
<Xach> thijso: cool
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<thijso> It should get you up and running (that is: installing your own example app on your phone) within a couple (4 to be exact) of commands (although some take a long time)
<thijso> (ignoring the fact that you need docker, so it might take some pre-setup work to get started)
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<shka__> is (simple-array * (*)) the same as (simple-array t (*)) ?
<Bike> no, the former covers arrays specialized on other types
<shka__> thank you for your answer
<Bike> e.g. (simple-array bit (*)) is a subtype of (simple-array * (*)) but not a subtype of (simple-array t (*))
<shka__> i understand, thank you
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<Cymew> lxbarbosa: Your system does not load with the instructions you have on there. There's an unmentioned dependency on something called "trivial-gamekit"/
<lxbarbosa> Cymew: indeed, trivial-gamekit
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<Cymew> Also "bodge-utilities" is not mentioned either.
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<Cymew> Nor "cl-bodge/graphics"
<Cymew> I give up.
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<borodust> lxbarbosa: did you follow instructions from here? https://github.com/borodust/post-man#installation-and-running
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<borodust> you need testing dist (one mentioned in the readme above)
<borodust> ah, for moppu you are good with stable dist too
<borodust> ah, i guess i misunderstood
<borodust> Cymew: you need to install dist as mentioned in trivial-gamekit readme
<borodust> then you won't need to explicitly load any dependencies
<borodust> also, there are several new lisp games :)
<borodust> note to self: need to tell the author to update their readme
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<shka_> hi
<shka_> i am looking for a way to extract list of variables selected in the query in sx-sql
<shka_> is it possible?
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* Xach has never used sxql
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<White_Flame> is there a clean way to scope a readtable for a particular QL or ASDF system?
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<White_Flame> ie, so it only gets used in those systems and not globally
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<flubberhead> Hello, I'm trying to wrap my head around setf as part of a larger question in an assignment. The code I currently have prints what I would expect, but I receive an error warning saying x is an undefined variable and I'm not sure what is wrong. Here is a paste of my code: https://pastebin.com/NgjseVA5
<White_Flame> you never declared X. (defvar x nil) before your code
<aeth> flubberhead: SETF modifies a binding, it shouldn't be used to create a new binding. LET creates a new binding.
<no-defun-allowed> The variable X isn't defined anywhere, and that formatting is not very nice to read.
<aeth> (Or globally DEFVAR or DEFPARAMETER)
<White_Flame> also, your "lst" parameter can simply be called "list". There will be no name collision with the function named LIST
<no-defun-allowed> Looks local to me, so LET is more appropriate.
<no-defun-allowed> clhs let
<flubberhead> Oh I see, thank you.
<flubberhead> so I use let to declare a binding, then if I want to re assigne it I'd use setf
<flubberhead> >
<flubberhead> also, no-defun-allowed: is there a good guide to formatting better?
<aeth> Local bindings in CL are very explicit, so LET is used, and it increases the indentation level (and expression nesting level). LET* if you need to refer to something else in the same set of bindings like (let ((x 42)) (y (* 2 x))) ...)
<White_Flame> (let ((x (take-n ...))) (list x ....))
<aeth> (And technically, you can use &aux, but don't do that. Bad style.)
<aeth> Oh sorry, I was unclear, I mean compare let vs. let* in my x and y example.
<White_Flame> flubberhead: your indentation and paren locations are fine. It's just the lack of whitespace between things
<flubberhead> ah ok, I'll work on my formatting for the white space
<flubberhead> aeth: so let* basically allows for defining bindings inside that binding's scope?
<aeth> flubberhead: let* means that y in (y (* 2 x)) refers to the inner x, which is 42. let means that y would try to refer to the parent's x
<White_Flame> in (let* ((a ..) (b ..) (c ..)) ...), B sees the new value of A, an C sees the new values of A and B
<aeth> (let ((x 1)) (let ((x 42) (y (* 2 x))) y)) ; 2
<aeth> (let ((x 1)) (let* ((x 42) (y (* 2 x))) y)) ; 84
<flubberhead> that makes sense with those examples, thanks
<aeth> And LET* is in order so a lot of the time where you might think you need SETF, you can just use LET* instead.
<aeth> i.e. (let ((x 1)) (let* ((y (* 2 x)) (x 42)) y)) ; 2
<flubberhead> that's really useful to know. My "course pack" is very brief so is missing some of the finer points.
<flubberhead> thanks for the help everyone
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<White_Flame> there are also some good books available (some for free) which teach the language quite well. http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ is widely recommended
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<flubberhead> awesome, thanks.
<flubberhead> I do want to actually learn lisp, not just get through the section of this course.
<White_Flame> that's good to hear
<flubberhead> I can see how lisp is really useful once you are good at it.
<flubberhead> I'm out for now, but I'll be back
<aeth> It depends on if you like the syntax. With a Lisp, pretty much everything you do can be expressed in s-expressions and only at the end transformed into what you need. e.g. HTML as (:p "Foo")
<aeth> With most environments, you have to deal with 5 different syntaxes.
<White_Flame> Are dispatch macro character registrations contained within the readtable, or global?
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<Shinmera> readtable.
<White_Flame> cool
<White_Flame> just to be extra specific, (set-dispatch-macro-character #\# #\{ ...) will only affect the current readtable, and swapping another one out will not have the #{ hook?
<Shinmera> with regard to your earlier question, typically people use named-readtables and an in-readtable after in-package in every file.
<White_Flame> ah, ok. I hadn't seen that usage
<Shinmera> that should be the case yes, but you should use named-readtables, which has a nice declarative syntax for the macros.
<Shinmera> *for the readtables and their macrso
<White_Flame> yes, I've used it before, but only globally
* White_Flame makes a reader macro char that calls in-readtable, for nested use
<Shinmera> oh dear
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<White_Flame> yep. rabbit hole time
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