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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<borei>
hi :beach
<borei>
quick question - is there any recommendation in regards to the library to work with date/time ?
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<edgar-rft>
borei: depends on you requirements, for simple things Common Lisp has built-in stuff, but if you need astronomical precision over hundreds of years things start to become hairy, see http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html
<borei>
mainly need to get high res (miliseconds - micorseconds) timestamps
<borei>
yep i found that link
<borei>
seems like local-time - it's what im looking for
<edgar-rft>
borei: Common Lisp has GET-INTERNAL-REAL-TIME giving times in INTERNAL-TIME-UNITS-PER-SECOND resolution, maybe that's sufficient for your needs?
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<phoe>
borei: local-time gives you us precision
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<drmeister>
What is the emacs package for editing files on a remote system?
<drmeister>
tramp
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<holycow>
glad we could be of help
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<flip214>
what's the name if I create a dialect of Lisp to specifically solve some business problem in terse form?
<flip214>
small business language? no, it was something different
<beach>
What makes you think there is a widely agreed-upon name for such things?
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<heisig>
flip214: Domain-specific language? Business rule engine?
<flip214>
heisig: DSL, thanks
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<beach>
But the term DSL is not reserved for Lisp dialects, of course.
<beach>
And you can create a DSL as an embedded language, as OnLisp describes.
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<flip214>
I've got a function calling CL-PPCRE:SCAN with the RE coming from an argument; the function is declared INLINE, but I still have CL-PPCRE:CREATE-SCANNER calls in a profile dump.
<flip214>
I'd have expected that when the function gets inlined the (constant) string argument could be compiled by CL-PPCRE during compilation, not during runtime?!
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<phoe>
flip214: create-scanner, or a closure returned by create-scanner?
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<pjb>
flip214: argument vs. constant?
<pjb>
flip214: also, inline is not forced.
<pjb>
You can use a macro to force inlining it.
<pjb>
Also, with a macro, you can call create-scanner at macroexpansion-time.
<flip214>
phoe: CREATE-SCANNER is being called
<flip214>
pjb: the function that calls SCAN gets a static argument.
<phoe>
oooh, I see
<flip214>
is the only way to force inlining via a macro? hmmm, okay...
<phoe>
or a compiler macro
<splittist>
or run create-scanner at compile time
<phoe>
^
<phoe>
SCAN is a GF, so it must be called at runtime
<flip214>
phoe: yeah, I'd hoped that inlining the parent function is sufficient
<flip214>
changed to a macro, runtime down from 1.4 to 0.9 seconds
<flip214>
thnks
<flip214>
*thanks
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<flip214>
sprof still gives me 10.7% of time in SB-DI::FILL-IN-CODE-LOCATION ... isn't that called only when compiling?
<flip214>
ah, got it
<flip214>
thanks anyway ;)
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<dlowe>
flip214: usually declaring a function as inline and setting optimize speed to 3 is sufficient
<dlowe>
you may have to reduce the debug optimization because inlining will interfere with backtraces
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<flip214>
ah, that might be the issue... so defmacro is the easy choice
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<dlowe>
Macros are more error prone, kind of the wrong level of abstraction, and can introduce loading order problems if you call any user-defined functions.
<dlowe>
On the other hand, using them for inlining has a nice certainty that dicking around with compiler settings doesn't
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<dlowe>
it says right there in the spec that the compiler can ignore inline declarations
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<dlowe>
which is kind of bs
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<Shinmera>
There are situations where it's useful for the compiler to be able to ignore them.
<no-defun-allowed>
Well, you wouldn't have to implement inlining then.
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<no-defun-allowed>
The only change to semantics that inlining provides is that redefining that function doesn't have to work "properly", so a conforming implementation could ignore inline declarations and everything would work fine (albeit slightly slower).
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<flip214>
Is there SBCL for AIX??
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<dlowe>
No, no, if I specify a thing that isn't default behavior and the compiler can't do it, I want a noisy failure
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<dlowe>
because if I specified it, I was depending on it
<dlowe>
(bonus if the compiler also makes noise if I'm trying to redefine an inline function)
<dlowe>
(all the bonus points if it keeps an inline function dependency tree to automatically recompile when needed)
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<beach>
Would that be conforming?
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<phoe>
Recompiling? I guess so
<phoe>
There is a mention in the spec somewhere about that...
<phoe>
"Only an implementation that was willing to be responsible for recompiling f if the definition of g changed incompatibly could legitimately stack allocate the list argument to g in f."
<phoe>
so I guess it could be similar in case of inline dependencies
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<axion>
Xach: Remember when I said avl-tree and doubly-linked-list have been deleted?
<axion>
They are now part of that new repository with correct dependencies
<Xach>
I missed the doubly-linked-list bit
* Xach
deletes
<axion>
Xach: also, did you get my message yesterday?
<Xach>
If it was on IRC, no.
<axion>
Xach: 3b's PR for xpb-exif is needed for the new pngload
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<axion>
err zpb-exif
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<Xach>
ok
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* Xach
wonders why cl-gserver hung during build a few hours ago
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<Xach>
fe[nl]ix: let me know if the travis-ci update suffices. the process confused me more than i expected so I might have done it wrong.
<dlowe>
Xach: I got a funny error on local-time where sb-bsd-sockets wasn't able to be required
<Xach>
dlowe: in the rss?
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<dlowe>
Xach: the problem is that stefil sucks in swank, which tries to require sb-bsd-sockets
<Xach>
dlowe: that was due to a bit of whiplash with how SBCL_HOME works, should be fixed now.
<Xach>
oh. hmm.
<dlowe>
ah, ok, thanks
<Xach>
if you mean the rss thing, anyway, it's resolved.
<dlowe>
It's a silly dependency. I'm probably going to change over to the fork soon.
* Xach
wonders about having state and 1) only reporting new errors and 2) reporting when errors are fixed.
<Xach>
but ugh, state
<dlowe>
not worth it imho
<dlowe>
I wasn't bothered
<jackdaniel>
fe[nl]ix: ping re mailboxes in bordeaux-threads
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<srazzaque>
Curious question for all: in situations where you're consuming a library that de/serializes messages from <some format>, would you prefer the representation be in a (a) plist or a (b) alist, or (c) a CLOS object (assuming these messages are not particular large, <100 key-value pairs)
<dlowe>
it depends on how static those keys are
<dlowe>
if the messages have a defined schema that doesn't change a lot, I'd prefer a CLOS object
<srazzaque>
yep, the messages do indeed have a schema
<dlowe>
if the messages could contain anything (like a JSON blob) I'd probably prefer a plist or alist
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<dlowe>
Nested plists if the messages are hierarchical
<srazzaque>
Yep, makes sense.
<srazzaque>
I made the decision early on to go with CLOS objects for something I'm working on, but complexity and compilation times are getting, a bit high...
<dlowe>
you could be solving complexity in one spot instead of adding complexity all over, I can't tell from here
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<Josh_2>
afternoon all
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<beach>
Hello Josh_2.
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<srazzaque>
dlowe: it's definitely something I need to think through a bit more, but perhaps not at 2am :-)
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