p_l changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | ASDF 3.3.4
<bitmapper> ...
<bitmapper> i think i just stumbled upon a common lisp implementation on github
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<no-defun-allowed> That's not very hard to do.
<bitmapper> well, considering it has clos/mop
<bitmapper> and apparently is all in C
<no-defun-allowed> "all in C" shouldn't be something to be proud of, in my opinion.
<bitmapper> no-defun-allowed: jeez, calm down
<bitmapper> i'm just surprised i haven't seen this before
<no-defun-allowed> I'm not disturbed by that. It is just not a good use of one's time to write a Common Lisp implementation (and they don't appear to claim Common Lisp compatibility, FWIW) in C.
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<bitmapper> considering all the tests have an ANSI COMMON LISP at the top of them
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<no-defun-allowed> (Well, ECL is certainly quite impressive, but there is a lot of Lisp code in that as well.f)
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<no-defun-allowed> Sure. I would expect a statement like "npt is an implementation of ANSI Common Lisp" if that is what it should be, though.
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<bitmapper> * *features*
<bitmapper> (:LONG-FLOAT-80 :C99 :NPT-64-BIT :NPT :64-BIT :ARCH-64-BIT :LINUX :UNIX :COMMON-LISP :ANSI-CL)
<bitmapper> no-defun-allowed: :P
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<no-defun-allowed> :P to you too.
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<no-defun-allowed> It shouldn't be necessary to download and build a program to find out what it does.
<bitmapper> i mean it wasnt i just wanted to try it
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<kinope> Hello!
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<srji> im using emacs, sbcl, slime and i want to know if its possible to lookup the docs of in-build functions like (mapcar)?
<srji> it is :)
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<beach> Sure, you can have both the Common Lisp HyperSpec and the implementation-specific documentation.
<beach> They may (should?) differ in many cases.
<srji> `(mapcar function list &rest more-lists)` im not sure what is the meaning of `&rest`?
<beach> clhs &rest
<srji> ty
<beach> ywlcm.
<beach> Sorry, yaw, I mean.
<beach> &REST means that, in addition to the required arguments FUNCTION and LIST, it can also take an arbitrary number of additional arguments.
<srji> it means it is possible to have a lambda function as argument for mapcar?
<beach> These additional arguments end up in the list MORE-LISTS. And as the name suggests, those additional arguments should be more lists.
<phoe> it's always possible to have an anonymous function as an argument to mapcar
<beach> There is no such thing as a "lambda function". The LAMBDA operator creates an anonymous function that can be used where any other function can be used.
<phoe> a function is a function
<phoe> (mapcar (lambda (x) (+ x 10)) '(1 2 3 4 5)) is a thing
<srji> seems logic
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<beach> So an example of more lists would be (mapcar #'+ '(1 2 3) (4 5 6))
<beach> Er, so an example of more lists would be (mapcar #'+ '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6))
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<srji> ty
<beach> yaw
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<kinope> Hmm, how would I get the output from macroexpand-1 to be nicely formatted, w/ indentation and such. I've looked at setting *print-pretty* and *print-readably* to t, but that didn't seem to help.
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<beach> It should happen automatically if you do it in the REPL.
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<Bike> print-pretty T should do it. do you still get the output on one line like that?
<Bike> print-readably you probably don't want
<Bike> that's "readably" as in by the computer, not by you
<kinope> Well it's not all on one line, just is missing line-breaks where you'd expect them to be, after function arguments for instance.
<kinope> It's definitely doing some formatting, just not what I'd expect.
<kinope> previous message should read 'after function arguments(lambda list?) in a defun'
<Bike> there are some ways to adjust the formatting, but what you're seeing is probably what the implementation considers good formatting
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<Bike> though i can't see it myself of course
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<kinope> Yes I think you may be right, it's not a big issue, just thought I'd ask anyway.
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<Josh_2> Afternoon
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<beach> Hello Josh_2.
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<Josh_2> How do I use a ps macro within a ps body? (parenscript)
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<TwoNotes> Going crazy trying to find the right syntax to pass a c-struct by reference to a CFFI alien function (SBCL)
<TwoNotes> That is, how to describe it to define-alien-routine.
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<Josh_2> TwoNotes: that concept is alien to me ;)
<TwoNotes> Yeah, but I think it is easier to interface to existing libfoo routines that try to recreate them in Lisp
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<TwoNotes> Stuff like libv4l2convert. Compute-intensive
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<Josh_2> Yep, you making bindings for v4l?
<Josh_2> because thats kewl
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<TwoNotes> I found bindings for the basic V4L2 stuff. CL-V4L2. It is specifically the format conversion linrary I need.
<TwoNotes> But later on I will also need libogg, libopus, libtheora, etc
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<TwoNotes> As is usual with CL projects, I am working on something else entirely but end up spending all my time on infrastructure and these CFFI things
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<Xach> I wish I could suggest a project that might have similar code to use as an example.
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<TwoNotes> None of the example in the CFFI doc actually do this.
<TwoNotes> Plenty of examples of "how do I pass a struct by value to a C routine"
<Xach> Oh, I thought that's what you meant. What's a CFFI alien function compared to that?
<TwoNotes> I am trying to pass a POINTER to something defined by defcstruct
<Xach> TwoNotes: The manual says "To pass or return the pointer, you can use either :pointer or (:pointer (:struct structure-name))." That's not what you want?
<TwoNotes> I think so
<Xach> Actually, I should avoid further guessing - I don't use CFFI and can't answer any followups!
<Xach> But I will say the mailing list is very good at helping out
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<TwoNotes> Ah, which mailing list woiuld that be?
<Xach> The cffi-devel mailing list.
<TwoNotes> thanks
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<matzy_> does anyone here use the CL-DBI packages for interfacing with databases?
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<AXUAL> Hi all
<no-defun-allowed> Hello AXUAL.
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<AXUAL> Is LISP ever used in the field of AI today?
<no-defun-allowed> No, LISP hasn't been used since the 70s or so. Lisp, on the other hand, does have some AI libraries, and I think RavenPack uses it to data mine at least.
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<AXUAL> Oh I see.
<AXUAL> Is Lisp the original lisp?
<no-defun-allowed> I think upcased LISP was used before capitalized Lisp.
<AXUAL> I see
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<AXUAL> I thought the original LISP was good for sort of symbolic AI
<AXUAL> Lisp*
<phoe> it is, except AI went in a completely different direction
<no-defun-allowed> Yes, Lisp was very important when symbolic AI was big.
<no-defun-allowed> And some uses of it are still well served by Lisp.
<AXUAL> True. I can see why I think
<phoe> now the so-called "artificial intelligence" is mostly "machine learning", or, in other words, statistics and neural nets
<AXUAL> I see
<AXUAL> Yeah. The whole symbolic AI was pretty interesting
<AXUAL> Like Minsky I think it was and his theory of Knowledge Frames
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<AXUAL> I think the approach still holds merit and should merge with ML techniques
<AXUAL> I like Lisp's metaprogramming and macros functionality
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<no-defun-allowed> There are machinecoughgut feelingcough learning libraries in Common Lisp.
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<AXUAL> True
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<AXUAL> Idk why but I think lisp would be rather good for NLP
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<AXUAL> What would the best way to improve at LISP be? Going from project to project gradually increasing in complexity?
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<no-defun-allowed> Did I not imply strongly enough that no one upcases the name Lisp anymore?
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<AXUAL> Fine then, CLISP
<no-defun-allowed> Fucking what?
<Josh_2> I reckon if you are attempting to improve a lisp, you might want to see a speech therapist ;)
<AXUAL> that's a valid way to speel Common Lisp
<AXUAL> spell*
<no-defun-allowed> It is not, and shut up, Josh_2
<AXUAL> But Wikipedia said so...
<AXUAL> :/
<Josh_2> AXUAL: if you want to get better at CL, then pick a project and get going
<AXUAL> True. I think I'll make a simple grid based game
<no-defun-allowed> CLISP is the name of one Common Lisp implementation that is not used very often outside of courses written by stupid course writers.
<AXUAL> Fine then, SBCL
<AXUAL> lol
<Josh_2> You can use whatever one you want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<AXUAL> :P
<no-defun-allowed> SBCL is also an implementation and not Common Lisp itself.
<AXUAL> I can still refer to it, no?
<AXUAL> How do implementations and dialects differ? Are dialects modifications of a standard?
<no-defun-allowed> Yes, but (not (eq sbcl common-lisp))
<AXUAL> true
<no-defun-allowed> And calling Lisp languages "dialects" is misleading as they usually use different standards, and they are usually mutually incomprehensible.
<Josh_2> AXUAL: just don't accidentally say Scheme xD
<no-defun-allowed> A Common Lisp implementation implements the language specified by the ANSI standard, and so a conforming program can run on any implementation.
<ebrasca> I calling implementations dialects I think is ok.
<Josh_2> I think most everyone would understand what you mean if you said dialect
<AXUAL> True
<AXUAL> Thanks
<no-defun-allowed> Oh, fuck this.
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<Josh_2> oof
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<AXUAL> xD
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<AXUAL> am going to sign out. see you all
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