<kristianpaul>
there is a flicernoise image with PDF support, but dunno how update to it
<kristianpaul>
looks at xiangfu
<n0carrier>
yeah, saw it in a screenshot online
<n0carrier>
was curious
<xiangfu>
n0carrier, needs re-build flickernoise.
<kristianpaul>
Is not the fasted read (last time i tested, time ago..), but i think you can give  a try and drop some comments, i'm aware that lots libraries had changed
<n0carrier>
ahh, OK!
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: i dont think n0carrier want re-build FN from scracht did he? :-)
<kristianpaul>
oh, ok, i tought i was avaliable as alternative image or something
<xiangfu>
n0carrier, I can re-build it but I am not recommend use it.
<kristianpaul>
;-)
<n0carrier>
thats fine, if its not implemented, i can wait :)
<kristianpaul>
it is, but well, as xiangfu saids :)
<kristianpaul>
lets call it Beta feature :-)
<xiangfu>
n0carrier, why you want read pdf in M1. just want understand (I am building the PDF verison now)
<n0carrier>
because i dont have a lot of desk space, so i was thinking of converting some of the milkdrop and MM documents to PDF
<n0carrier>
to read in a window, while i am working on new patches
<n0carrier>
so i dont have to print them
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: i tried when i was just ready to use M1 like presentatio device, i think rejon was asking about that too earlier
<n0carrier>
or have my laptop open :)
<kristianpaul>
or buy an e-reader ? :-)
<kristianpaul>
i mean , not buy it and use M1
<kristianpaul>
of course
<wolfspraul>
n0carrier: bottom line I think we should say PDF support on M1 doesn't work right now, don't go in that direction right now
<wolfspraul>
I would not even have released that image, it's misleading :-)
<wolfspraul>
the screenshot I mean
<wolfspraul>
we were just happy that it did work at all, to make a screenshot...
<n0carrier>
yeah
<n0carrier>
let me know if you need video, as i have a firewire capture card
<kristianpaul>
oh :-)
<xiangfu>
n0carrier, you mean capture VGA?
<n0carrier>
yes
<n0carrier>
because before i purchased, i only saw screenshots and bad videos online
<n0carrier>
but i had faith :)
<n0carrier>
perhaps others may want to see VGA video
<kristianpaul>
*green*
<kristianpaul>
n0carrier: so you already sample M1 VGA out in you card, and improves quality a lot?
<n0carrier>
i am uploading a video now, of a patch i made
<n0carrier>
you can take a look at the quality
<n0carrier>
(its compressed, but would be OK for the web)
<xiangfu>
n0carrier, great. I have to use VGA--> S-video --> usb to capture the m1. that quality is bad.
<n0carrier>
OK, let's see if this one will look OK for you
<n0carrier>
i'll share a link in a moment
<n0carrier>
when its done uploading
<kristianpaul>
so you bought our M1 been afraid os a bad quality VGA out?
<kristianpaul>
and your mind changed now? :-)
<kristianpaul>
M1 is fitting your needs? i saw half your patches worked, is that good?
<n0carrier>
no, i knew the quality would be OK!
<kristianpaul>
ah :-)
<n0carrier>
but the only videos i saw were taped from TV
<xiangfu>
n0carrier, you can send the original video to en.qi-hardware.com I will upload them to youtube.
<kristianpaul>
how big is uncompressed?
<n0carrier>
ahh, this is just a test
<n0carrier>
i deleted the original
<kristianpaul>
xD
<n0carrier>
when its finished, i'll re-record and send a better version
<xiangfu>
cool
<rejon>
kristianpaul, yes, we need image and pdf support ASAP on m1
<xiangfu>
with PDF the boot is slow. because we have to compress the flickernoise bin and un-compress under m1.
<kristianpaul>
ah, yup
<wolfspraul>
n0carrier: can you license your videos under a free license like cc0, cc-by, public domain, etc?
<wolfspraul>
anything I can reuse? :-)
<wolfspraul>
if you say 'yes' here that's enough for me
<wolfspraul>
we are in dire need of better videos
<xiangfu>
and the compress flickernoise have to flashed by jtag.
<wolfspraul>
nah
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: please let's simplify this and not send people into a dead-end road
<wolfspraul>
PDF on M1 does not work
<wolfspraul>
that's the message, and done
<xiangfu>
ok
<wolfspraul>
we know it would be a nice feature, but it's grouped together with hundreds (literally) equally nice features, and with our limited resources we don't know when we get to really making it work
<wolfspraul>
I think support for still images is more important, for example
<wolfspraul>
and I could go on list a lot of other 'more important' features that most people would agree with
<wolfspraul>
PDF will come in due time, but not now, imho
<n0carrier>
wolf: sure, all the videos i upload will be free, whatever you like
<wolfspraul>
excellent
<wolfspraul>
thanks!
<wolfspraul>
public domain
<wolfspraul>
the best
<wolfspraul>
I'm tired of this copyright waste of time
<n0carrier>
haha of course
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul, (PDF) ok.
<wolfspraul>
ah yes, just lookgin at the .mov n0carrier linked to earlier - very nice!
<wolfspraul>
does it have sound? can't hear anything right now (may be my noisy starbucks background though)
<xiangfu>
and cool patch. we should include it in next release.
<wpwrak>
no sound here either. unless the audio track is Free too, that may be for the better, though
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: cc0 sounds nice, why more licenses?
<wolfspraul>
no fine print, but I discover the beauty of public domain
<wolfspraul>
no more FUD from lawyers that try to tell us public domain is "not allowed" or "automatically whatever" :-)
<wolfspraul>
public domain is exactly what it says, in the public domain, and done
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
focus on people
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: yes, cc0 :-)
<wolfspraul>
or just nothing, public domain
<wolfspraul>
sounds scary? it's not!
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: yes, good license! thanks!
<wpwrak>
the public domain doesn't exist in the US style everywhere. some countries even have a public domain that is actually for-pay (to a government-endorsed entity)
<wolfspraul>
ya ya ya
<kristianpaul>
cc0 should solve that problem last time i heard
<wpwrak>
yup, cc0 or WTF may work
<wolfspraul>
from a Chinese perspective (and I'm sitting in the center of Beijing here), "public domain does not exist" is just silly
<wolfspraul>
even great minds can be distracted sometimes :-)
<wpwrak>
the problem with a missing or corrupted public domain is also that, if you die or get disowned without a previous correct license, the new owner may go after the users of your stuff. very nasty.
<wolfspraul>
at least the air we breathe is still public domain, I guess
<wolfspraul>
but nasty people can and always will do nasty things anyway, license be damned
<wpwrak>
well yes, but you don't have to give them now weapons :)
<wolfspraul>
just declare cc0 'illegal', retroactively
<kristianpaul>
yeah, people is the not licenses anyway..
<wpwrak>
s/now/new/
<wolfspraul>
cannot be done? ha ha
<wpwrak>
well, it's a little harder
<wolfspraul>
I give them no weapons at all, it's all virtual
<wolfspraul>
so..
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<kristianpaul>
is the problem**
<wolfspraul>
I breathe some more free Chinese air now
<wolfspraul>
prison free
<wpwrak>
(air) no anti-pollution laws ? :)
<wolfspraul>
freely censored
<kristianpaul>
free and poluted ;-)
<wolfspraul>
yep
<wolfspraul>
so the free people can enjoy their cheap toys
<n0carrier>
bbiab
<xiangfu>
I just got the usb-midi device and connect it to my m1.
<sb0>
wolfspraul, PDF support works. it's just slow.
<xiangfu>
so... it not ready for ender users :D
<wolfspraul>
maybe I have a different definition of 'works'
<wolfspraul>
in my definition, PDF support is about as far from 'works' as it can be
<wolfspraul>
(as of today)
<wolfspraul>
to start with, it's not included in the units we ship
<sb0>
n0carri3r, cool patch :)
<wolfspraul>
it cannot be upgraded over web update
<wolfspraul>
a user who would want to use it would have to compile sources from scratch
<wolfspraul>
he or she would have to use jtag to install it
<wolfspraul>
after that booting would be so slow that a real user who would even make it to this point might very well remove it again after a while
<wolfspraul>
and then we would need to find out about the actual depth of PDF support, i.e. whether typical PDFs people think they can now open would actually open
<wolfspraul>
PDFs can be very resource intensive
<wolfspraul>
the good news is - I don't think PDF support is a critical feature at the top of our priority lists, at least not on mine
<wolfspraul>
so it doesn't matter that much that they don't work, today. and some proof-of-concept, good enough for a demo, is already working :-)
<wolfspraul>
but towards normal users, we are far better off just saying "no PDF" than getting them into this right now
<ALMTEMtem>
Hello
<ALMTEMtem>
rejon:
<ALMTEMtem>
roh:
<ALMTEMtem>
sb0:
<rejon>
hi
<ALMTEMtem>
Hi
<sb0>
hi
<ALMTEMtem>
I want to get a job
<ALMTEMtem>
In this company
<ALMTEMtem>
Can you help me
<ALMTEMtem>
rejon
<ALMTEMtem>
sb0:
<ALMTEMtem>
From any country you
<sb0>
what kind of job?
<rejon>
what do you do?
<rejon>
have you contributed to the project yet?
<rejon>
i'm from usa and china
<rejon>
i'm american-chinese
<ALMTEMtem>
I'm from Syria and I have a college degree
<rejon>
cool
<rejon>
are you friends with bassel?
<rejon>
where do you live?
<ALMTEMtem>
NO
<rejon>
i have a college degree, but i wish i didn't spend all that time in school
<rejon>
how did you hear about the project ALMTEMtem ?
<ALMTEMtem>
By accident
<rejon>
really
<rejon>
what city do you live in in syria?
<ALMTEMtem>
in der al zor
<rejon>
deraa?
<rejon>
all our operations are run through bassel safadi in damascus
<rejon>
you can learn more about our hackerspace here: http://aikilab.org
<rejon>
and email info@aikilab.org for more info
<ALMTEMtem>
OK
<rejon>
of course, the government there has made it hard to do anything
<rejon>
soooo, the space is currently no more...its roaming now :)
<wpwrak>
rejon: can't enter syria for 5 years ? have you been a bad boy ? :-)
<wpwrak>
likes his now auto-correcting torture script. already hit two problems while i slept. i love to get things done in my sleep :)
<sb0>
is happily surprised with ICALEPCS. a lot of people there knew about Milkymist.
<wpwrak>
wonderful. how did they like your ideas about Free tools ?
<sb0>
they liked the presentation a lot... and I got several contacts. I don't expect them to jump immediately into doing it, but let's see :)
<wpwrak>
very good :)
<wpwrak>
how were the presentations about EDA systems, gEDA and KiCad ? and how were the reactions to them ?
<sb0>
there was a good talk by Tomasz about the current limitations of free EDA tools
<sb0>
they (= multiple people at CERN) see improving them as a priority
<sb0>
they'd probably focus on KiCad
<wpwrak>
yes, i saw his list. very good items.
<sb0>
ah, and I mentioned your schhist too :)
<wpwrak>
(kicad) good. how was the kicad talk ?
<wpwrak>
great, thanks ! ;-)
<sb0>
interesting, seems it's a 'progressist' project, which is what I like :)
<sb0>
btw, there were 3 KiCad devs in the room
<wpwrak>
ah, interesting. jean-pierre, dick, and who was the 3rd ?
<sb0>
hm, I don't remember
<wpwrak>
and what's a "progressist" project ? ;-)
<sb0>
opposite of conservative
<wpwrak>
(3rd) let's wait for the debriefing on the kicad list then :)
<wpwrak>
heh. could actually be a bit more progressive. well, or maybe not. too aggressive changes at the core are no fun at the periphery
<sb0>
e.g. jumping into new features, valuing external contributions (instead of being a PITA for newcomers), etc.
<wpwrak>
hmm, partially true. but the biggest structural problem of kicad is that the core developers have day jobs and probably families. so they're relatively slow to develop or also integrate larger features. this creates a speed incompatibility with people who need something for an on-going project, who will just happily work 100% on that until it's done.
<wpwrak>
a solution for this is what we do: tread kicad as a building block of many and build external tools
<wpwrak>
a problem this solution creates: usually supports only one platform, in our case linux
<sb0>
there are like 600 commits a day (according to the talk), this doesn't seem that slow
<sb0>
ofc they didn't mention the contents of those commits
<wpwrak>
600 seems incredibly high. i could believe there was maybe one day with 600 commits (reformatting or such). but let's check ...
<sb0>
sorry, a year
<sb0>
:)
<sb0>
my fingers slipped
<wpwrak>
ah, okay ;-)
<wpwrak>
yes, 2.5 orders of magnitude less. that makes more sense ;-)
<Thihi>
:)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: how much does the jtag board add to the cost of the M1 ? (percentage)
<mwalle>
larsc: how is that dumpinfo target working in openwrt?
<larsc>
mwalle: i don't even know what that is
<mwalle>
mh ok, its defined in include/target.mk
<larsc>
ah, for to generate the package description
<larsc>
what exactly do you want to know?
<mwalle>
why my config/profile-lsxl isnt working
<mwalle>
ok i think i have an outdated .config
<larsc>
you should get an warning if it is outdated
<mwalle>
larsc: btw do you happen to know a target which has the kernel in some filesystem image?
<larsc>
x86 maybe
<larsc>
there is at least a script which generates a kernel.ext2
<mwalle>
larsc: ah thx
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: hard to say. as always the main cost was in the pcb/smt/testing overhead
<wolfspraul>
jtag-serial board costs 20-30 USD including pcb & smt, I think