DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #neo900 to: | CCCAMP15 lightning talks at | conversations are logged to and
<DocScrutinizer05> the device will get checked by factory evaluation software to ensure everything works. We'll ship this software with the device so you can use it to repeat all tests
<DocScrutinizer05> ((how do you activate)) set a GPIO to 1 or 0
<DocScrutinizer05> on a more software focused level that's "echo 1 > /sys/devices/modem/power"
<DocScrutinizer05> or similar
<recharged> is the evaluation software free? that makes sense.
<DocScrutinizer05> or you use your own kernel driver of your choice to control the GPIO
<recharged> but I'd just feel safer without it. I trust you, but I don't trust the modem.
<DocScrutinizer05> of course the eval software is free :-D
<DocScrutinizer05> the modem is disconnected from power
<DocScrutinizer05> it can't do anything
<DocScrutinizer05> we got a solid switch that cuts modem power line
<DocScrutinizer05> just not mechanical but electronic, yet under your control
<DocScrutinizer05> you can evaluate the schematics to make sure the switch works like expected and can't do anything without your consent
<DocScrutinizer05> asking to remocve modem to make sure it's not doing rogue stuff is like... asking to amputate your hand so you can be sure you don't smoke holding the cigarette with that hand
<ZetaR> recharged: great 5min talk on this, just recently from CCCamp:
<recharged> but there's still the fact that i'll never use it. and, won't electricity still flow to it? i mean, sure, the cpu won't be processing anything, but radio frequencies will still emit?
<DocScrutinizer05> you *know* the modem has no electrical power when you don't want it to do anything
<DocScrutinizer05> no, we CUT THE POWER to modem
<DocScrutinizer05> it's *totally* inactive
<DocScrutinizer05> and the switch that cuts the power is made by us, not inside the modem where we don't know for sure how it works
<recharged> sorry, my tinfoil hat is a little too tight
<recharged> I just didn't think cpus could completely stop flow of electricity
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, if you don't trust a 3 pin component to connect pin1 to pin2 when pin3 is high volatge, then you actually have a serious problem
<DocScrutinizer05> well, ok, this is a 4pin component since it also has Ground
<Wizzup> recharged: if you're tinfoil this sounds like the perfect device for you
<DocScrutinizer05> and to make you feel even more comfortable, theren will be an LED that shines as long as there is *any* power fed to the modem
<DocScrutinizer05> you'll SEE the modem is off
<DocScrutinizer05> as directly and immediately as possible
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<DocScrutinizer05> this in my book is better than removing battery out of your average cellphone. since you dunno if that average phone has a weitd circuit that maybe has a backup battery. For our device you get schemativs and layout, so you can *check*
<DocScrutinizer05> weird*
<DocScrutinizer05> we sandbox and monitor the modem in such a tight way you hardly could do in a lab like that
<DocScrutinizer05> if modem would start going active despite you said it shouldn't, we have FOUR independent ways to make you aware of such event
<DocScrutinizer05> *1. we cut power so it can't happen at all. *2. we monitor the power stabilization and logical levels on data lines of modem *3. we check the power consumption current of modem, and *4. we check modem RF signal and when it starts sending *any* signal you get to know about that fact
<DocScrutinizer05> well, make *1 a *0 and split *2 into *1 and *2 for power stabilization and for signal lines
<DocScrutinizer05> you're 5-fold certain that modem doesn't do stuff when you don't want to
<DocScrutinizer05> that's better than anything else you could get (that I know of)
<recharged> well, I do feel safer from that. although, there's still the fact that I'll never use it. would it be an issue to just not inclue it?
<DocScrutinizer05> and *all* of that is 100% FOSS and under your complete control
<recharged> but, you're right, it is much better. I like that you're trying so hard.
<DocScrutinizer05> when you don't need phone and never want to use it, I think there are cheaper more reasonable devices for you. e.g. dragonbox pyra
<DocScrutinizer05> not that I'd mind you getting a Neo900 (with or without modem) but it's not making much sense. I don'T want to be dishonest to you
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<DocScrutinizer05> you can get Neo900 without modem. No problem. But nota bene we can't produce a spare device for you, just in case you want a replacement on warranty or regular repair. And it won't save you much money either to get rid of the modem
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<DocScrutinizer05> I can tell you how to drill a hole into the modem module so you can make 100% sure it doesn't work anymore. But is that really smart?
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<recharged> dragonbox and openpandora have been out of stock for a long time, and afaik they don't plan on making anymore. plus, I like the look and feel of the n900 and I'm used to it. it's easily portable, too. I guess I'm just stubborn about it.
<DocScrutinizer05> how's me telling you "this device is without modem" or me telling you "drill a hole there" any better than me telling you "echo 0 >/sys/modem/power/enable" ?
<DocScrutinizer05> dragonbox is the company. it's in business and releasing Pyra in a few months
<DocScrutinizer05> actually they sold a batch of pandoras recently, but that been the last batch ever
<DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 is "insanely" expensive when using it as a palmtop modem-less device like Pandora
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh, and Neo900 Inc's next device will resemble Pyra quite a bit
<DocScrutinizer05> if we ever make it to develop and produce a "next device"
<recharged> oh okay, makes more sense. I'll consider both, then. I suppose that's true.
<recharged> how so?
<DocScrutinizer05> (will take quite a few years from now until we do, if we ever will)
<recharged> but I also don't like that the pyra is designed for video games, which I don't play.
<DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 devices are way more demanding and intricate to develop than the dragonbox stuff
<DocScrutinizer05> dragonbox devices are relatively huuuuge compared to Neo900 devices with same specs
<recharged> the keyboard layout is a bit daunting to me
<DocScrutinizer05> ((dragonbox)) also the Pandora is not binary compatible to all teh maemo stuff. Neo900 is
<DocScrutinizer05> Pandora has no fancy audio built around an expensive audio codec chip
<DocScrutinizer05> the maemo OS audio stuff will not like the pandora
<recharged> fancy audio chips are always a plus.
<Oksana> Especially when they can be used for SIP, too, not only for cellular phone calls
<recharged> but really, I want a device where I can use tox on the go to communicate with people.
<recharged> and the port for maemo failed and won't be picked back up
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway, I gave you all the info I have. Can't contribute much more sensible comments. And I'm still busy 'cleaning up' the cccamp fallout
<DocScrutinizer05> afk, cya l8r
<recharged> thank you for the help. see yah
<DocScrutinizer05> yw :-)
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<wpwrak> it's kinda nice when one's predictions unfailingly come true, despite nearly everyone else believing the opposite
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<DocScrutinizer05> hehe
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<hellekin> how do I display my own cellphone number? I find it incredible that this question is not obviously answered by some generic keys
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<wpwrak> dial *#100#
<wpwrak> you should remember it from the camp. i'm sure you saw it being done right before your eyes several times, if you didn't do it yourself ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> this only works when card / carrier supports it
<wpwrak> hmm yes, not standardized at all ...
<DocScrutinizer05> it *is* _sort_o_f standardized
<hellekin> yes.
* hellekin has to call Nico to get his own phone number. WTF is that GSM tech about :P
<DocScrutinizer05> there's a number you often can use to get own number. I forgot it though
<DocScrutinizer05> DANG!! >>Die Nutzung mit einem Mobiltelefon ist nicht möglich<<
<hellekin> Ok, the plan for today is to have a look at GPG support in Claws mail. First step: install the toolchain to compile for the platform. Any pointer for that?
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, a pointer to Nico and ZetaR who evaluated that already
<DocScrutinizer05> seems to work just fine on maemo fremantle
<DocScrutinizer05> well, for whatever metrics of "just fine" - I for one despise processing any email on N900
<DocScrutinizer05> YMMV
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<knittel> hey :)
<DocScrutinizer05> hellekin: 0800 9377546
<DocScrutinizer05> hellekin: took a while to dig it up
<knittel> is there a recording of the neo Talk at the ccc camp?
<DocScrutinizer05> freecall, own number
<DocScrutinizer05> knittel: yes
<knittel> where can i find it?
<DocScrutinizer05> knittel: we're just about to post-prcess it and upload to share
<knittel> DocScrutinizer05: thanks. just saw the lightning talk and got interested :)
<DocScrutinizer05> ((I for one despise)) might change with hooking up a TV (aka monitor) and a fullsize kbd and mouse to the device
* hellekin agrees that "phone" + actual keyboard might be a good solution for mobile computing.
<DocScrutinizer05> ~h-e-n
<infobot> methinks hen is hostmode-easy-now, or, or see ~hostmode
<DocScrutinizer05> hellekin: you want to install rootsh unless you already did
<DocScrutinizer05> hellekin: generaly check out
<DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
<infobot> i heard jrtools is
<DocScrutinizer05> also see:
<DocScrutinizer05> ~flashing
<infobot> maemo-flashing is, like,, or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./
* DocScrutinizer05 hopes he will still finish tinc config now after the pressure from hostile cccamp network is gone
<DocScrutinizer05> sooooo... good night folks, I need to recover from cccamp, let's see how long that takes
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<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: ~24 hours of uninterrupted sleep ;-)
<enyc> DocScrutinizer05: good luck =)
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<bencoh> wpwrak: is that even possible ? oO
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<wpwrak> bencoh: it would have in my case, if the bloody RCD hadn't tripped - for whatever reason - and then the UPS' beeping disturbed my sleep. took me about ten minutes to figure out that a) the window i was looking out through wasn't part of a tent, b) the beeping came from my office, c) it was the UPS, so action was required.
<bencoh> :D
<enyc> wpwrak: I know have an individal RCBO for server circuit ;p
<wpwrak> enyc: my homecoming was a bit like this: arrive, check mail for an hour, notice that argentine winter is still colder than german summer, turn on AC, have power fail, hard. one hour later, electrician replaced burnt (!) cable between two (!) circuit breakers, bring up PC, notice that internet gateway PC had died (it had been sick for years, but still), call it a day and go to bed,
<DocScrutinizer05> ouch!
<wpwrak> be woken up by UPS (see above), reset RCD, chase spiders from ancient wrt54g and turn it into new internet gateway, regain connectivity to intertubes and sync all my stuff ...
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: luckily, building administration accepted to pay electrician. one hole less in my pocket ...
<DocScrutinizer05> at least that
<DocScrutinizer05> seems there are other reasons beside Kirchner as well...
<DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
<wpwrak> yes, sometimes a puzzingly underconfigured cable can get you, too :)
<wpwrak> what's odd is that none of the other circuit breakers noticed anything. the sequence is 20-25---35-x-32 (!), with x = the bad cable
<DocScrutinizer05> err, series or (presumably) all parallel? and if the latter: where is the 'downlink' aka feed?
<wpwrak> so a cable between a 35 A fuse and a 32 A fuse burnt through while a 20 A fuse saw nothing wrong. hmm.
<DocScrutinizer05> I'd not be surprised if the feed is on the 32A (right end)
<wpwrak> all serial. 20 A = AC branch. 25 A = entry of my apartment. 35 A = downstairs exit to my apartment. 32 A = another one, downstairs, for whatever purpose.
<DocScrutinizer05> dang PSU walwart makes nasty singing sounds :-(
<DocScrutinizer05> you got funny electricity
<wpwrak> you don't know half of it ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> I have an idea how it might look like
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<DocScrutinizer05> PSU now is ticking
<wpwrak> e.g., the 32 A (old-style) fuse burnt, too. so the janitor put on a glove, removed it, pried it open, removed burnt wires, added fresh copper strands, put it back ...
<DocScrutinizer05> errrWUT?
<wpwrak> that's roughly what i thought, too :)
<wpwrak> ah, the fresh copper came from cable he slaughtered for the occasion. took me a moment to realize what he was doing there :)
<wpwrak> hmm. i think i better don't show him that. might get ideas :)
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<bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: do we need to take the cheese out first ?
<DocScrutinizer05> [2015-08-21 Fri 15:37:02] <smiddi> die erdkruemmung *g*
<DocScrutinizer05> [2015-08-21 Fri 15:40:40] <DocScrutinizer> camp-sphere
<DocScrutinizer05> [2015-08-21 Fri 15:41:15] <benpicco> wie klein die Welt doch ist :D
<wpwrak> kewl
<wpwrak> (village) the small white one :)
<DocScrutinizer05> you can even see the shadow of the huge pole of (not yet erected) simulacron3 tent
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<dos1> a few photos from my n900s:
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<DocScrutinizer05> dos1: thank you, there are a few quite nice shots in there, and I basically got none of whole cccamp
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<dos1> antiatom should have some more around the whole camp :)
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<blademan63> ?
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<antiatom> dos1: We shall see! I didn't take as many fotos as i would like because i was so busy with other things.
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<wpwrak> (paulk photo) hmm, looks as if he was talking to just joerg and his bicycle. and more importantly, where's the lightning ? ;-)
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